| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
To link to another post, right click on the little folder icon above the poster's username, select "copy Shortcut", then paste that URL into the "\newurl{} formatting tag of your post.  Note that any links to an active KV page that has later been archived will no longer work.  Upcoming version of BBS software will fix that though. | ||
| Hootowl |
I've been using the milk jug oil slide/funnel idea for a few years now. I also use it to remove the oil filter. Works good. | ||
| X1glider |
Did the milk jug thing last night. Worked great. Glad i thought of it.  Gonna start a new thread here: According to the manual, I should have changed fluids at 500 miles. I'm more of a believer in operating hours (also dependent on riding habits). For instance: I can go 500 miles in 5 hours doing 100mph in 5th gear @ 6000rpm. Or I can go 500 miles in 20 hours doing 25 mph in 2nd gear @ 2000rpm. Should they be treated equally for scheduled changes? I don't believe so. I think this is an important consideration for anyone with a new bike (like myself) who wants to go to synthetic right after break in. So, when is the break in period REALLY up? C'mon everyone, I'm expecting a lot of input on this one! | ||
| Rempss |
I don't know if I subscribe to this but here: What's the Best Way to Break in a New Engine ?? The Short Answer: Run It Hard! Jeff | ||
| X1glider |
I can't say I totally agree with the link. I firmly believe that material in a new engine needs to heat and cool cycle over a certain period of time to condition itself (heat treating, forging:like in meshing gears, etc.) and find it's natural dimensional stabitity and intended properties. I say intended properties because I believe the engineers deliberately design the parts with the mindset that the parts will condition themselves during the break-in process. Take a look at pistons: aluminum, they get hot on top, the whole thing conducts the heat, oil splashes on the underside for cooling, turn off bike, cool down. Voila! Quenched to a T7 condition. The guy in the link was mainly concerned with the rings and although I agree that the rings need max pressure over these heating and cooling cycles to find its' ideal shape, I have to go in favor of breaking in the whole engine and drivetrain. But this doesn't stop at metal either, it also applies to breaking in lip seals and final drive belt. Dimensional and material property stability is paramount. So I go with varying between soft and hard during break in so the rings don't feel left out. | ||
| Cowboy |
Question???????? I want to know 1. Difference between buell and sportster tranny 2. why does the buell manual call for 32 0z fluid 3.harley shop manual for sporty call for 41 0z. 4. I found a lot of wear in my primary chain. could this be the sign of low oil level???? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Cowboy, There is no difference between a Buell and a Sportster Tranny. Are you sure they call for 41oz in a Sportster? The reason I ask is because in reality the Buell doesn't even use 32oz, its only 28oz. If you put in a whole quart it will just get spit out the overflow when you go out for a spirited ride and mess up your bike. As for your primary chain showing more wear. Well, a Buell is putting out about 40% more power than a Stock Sportster. I'm sure this has a lot to do with it. | ||
| Cowboy |
Yes I am 100% sure I just returned from my friends shop who is a harley mac. He just got a new sporty and while doing his first service found this difference and called it to my attention, so we checked and rechecked the book.just dont want to run the old girl low I punish it enough as it is (ha) thanks | ||
| X1glider |
Is the wear on your chain or the tensioner? You have me curious about the Sportster capacity. I would assume they were the same too. But maybe the Sporty has a smaller diameter clutch and an extra disc since it makes more torque than HP (opposite on a Buell). If the clutch diameter is smaller, they can be filled higher. This is a guess, but I know who to ask for a TRUE answer this weekend. I'll get back to this Monday. What years are the bikes? | ||
| Cowboy |
Hi x1glider we think the slack is from wear on the tensioner. In the buell manual it only states 32 0z. In shop manual for sporty it states 1 qt. + 9 oz for primary. As they both go to same place I hate to over fill but dont want to run low. I am quite contary about proper fluid levels. If find correct ans. please post. buell is 2001 (x1) sporty is 2002 thanks.......cowboy | ||
| Buelliedan |
Cowboy, Buell primary takes 28 oz. Anything more will just end up on your rear tire. | ||
| Ccryder |
My 45k mile experience has been that if you drain your primary/ tranny with your bike on the side stand it will take about 28oz to fill up to the diaphram spring on the clutch. Now if while draing the hot oil from the P/T and you stand the bike up straigh 2-3 times you will need more oil to fill to the same level. There is a wall between the tranny and primary with some hole to let the oil flow. Draining the oil just on the side stand will leave some oil in the tranny. 2 weeks ago when I changed my fluids @ 20k miles I seem to remember about 3-4 oz that could be rocked out of the P/T. I used 30-31 oz to get my fluid up to the clutch spring. If you fill it higher you stand a good chance of breathing it out the breather. If Sporters use more then fine. Since they don't turn or revs or mph they may not have our breathing issue. Time2Go Home. Neil S. | ||
| Ara |
Does anybody have a diagram or photo that shows exactly where the fluid level should be in the primary? I may be a little slow on the uptake, but I'm a little fuzzy on this issue. Russ | ||
| Blake |
Did I hear recently that the tranny lube capacity was increased to a full quart? BuellieDan, be careful with those absolute statements; they have a way of coming back to bite you. Re Tranny lube: Wow!! After replacing my starter and primary chain tensioner ('97 model still intact) Nallin Racing refilled my tranny with a 75W90 Synthetic. It is now a totally different animal. I would have never expected such a drastic improvement in smoothness and ease of shifting just by switching from the Tort Sprans fluid. I am sold! Nallin likes to use Royal Purple. I will probably go with a name brand 75W90 synthetic available locally. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, That comment about the Buells primary capacity being increased from 28oz to a full quart was a joke by Carlos over on Sacborg. They still hold 28 oz and I will stand behind that absolute statement that anything more will just get puked out your overflow. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that you can put 41 oz in a Buells primary and have it stay there!! | ||
| X1glider |
I got in 30oz with the bike straight up, not on the side stand. I'd fill to the proper level then tilt the bike over to the tranny side a few times then refill. Maybe the other 2oz is old fluid I can't get out without laying the bike on it's side. Kinda messy. | ||
| Ara |
I know it's been discussed before, but I'll be dogonned if I can find it. What weight of Mobil 1 gear oil is the proper replacement for Sport Trans??? Russ | ||
| Buelliedan |
I don't think you have a choice. If I'm not mistaken the Mobil 1 gear lube only comes in 75w90. | ||
| Carlost |
Rumormonger ain't I?  | ||
| Ara |
Well, that does make the choice an easy one!  Thanks, Buelliedan! | ||
| X1glider |
This post is just a reminder more than anything else. The last oil change on my Harley was done in Johnson City, TN on my way back to Houston. Well, while prepping to get ready for my trip to Wyoming I found that the mechanic there must have put the oil filter on with a 1" impact wrench. No luck by hand so I get the filter tool out. When that didn't work, I put 2 screws thru the tool to dig into the filter. Then I resorted to the "skewer the filter with a screwdriver" method. I was afraid I'd just tear it, but after 15 minutes of my whole 190 lbs bearing into it, I was successful. What a mess though. I'm considering a detour to kick his ass. I believe the manual says that after the filter touches the face, go another 1/2 to 3/4 turns. I usually go 1 full turn for good measure. But never 20? more!!!! What a moron. Well at least my 20k list is taken care of, except the fork oil change, looks like I'll need some kind of spring compressor. I'll take that in when I get back. I have the only HD with the fully adjustable fork.     | ||
| Ara |
X1, why not mail what's left of your oil filter to the service manager with a short letter of explanation and a copy of your service receipt. That oughta do it. That idiot has already made you go out of your way to great lengths just to remove the filter, why let him make you go out of youre way again? Russ | ||
| Dann |
X1, was your engine hot when you tried to remove your filter? Was it when the filter was installed? | ||
| Superbad |
Ok Saro. I want to here the deal on Dino vs. Synth in the XB. Bobby | ||
| Sarodude |
Not specific to the XB... Somebody in the little group huddled around the XB mentioned something about oil temps. EB mentioned the oil cooler on the XB was really only there for more extreme stuff. I think he said something about dino oil being ok till the 280-300 F neighborhood. Synth stays happy about another 30-40 F above that. Nothing new. Then he said that pure synth oils aren't good for roller bearing motors. Harley's blend is much better suited for those bearings. (don't kill me) I had too much of a migrane and too many things running through my head to further probe him on that. It sounds unintuitive to me, but guys, this is the head effing pegasus. Now, besides the silly TOO SLIPPERY SO IT CAUSES SLIPPAGE AND FLATTENAGE argument, what else could there be? I don't really mean to flog any dead horses so let's really dig and figure out something that makes sense if we're going to contribute to the discussion... -Saro | ||
| Robr |
Sounds to me like Erik has been asimilated into the Harley Collective. Rob | ||
| Blake |
Has EB been assimilated into preaching the company line?!! Or am I all wrong about synthetic engine oils. This deserves an explanation, a good thorough explanation. I will certainly be listening. Maybe we should commision our own thorough oil analysis investigation. Amsoil 20W50 HD360 20W50 Mobil-1 20W50 V-Twin Mobil-1 15W50 Automotive Redline 20W50 Royal Purple 20W50 All would be non-racing street formulations, and would if offered be V-Twin/Motorcycle formulations. Testing would be by a reputable tribology lab and would include measurement of ALL pertinent characteristics and constituents/additives. Anyone interested in helping to sponsor such a study? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Any idea how much something like this might cost Blake? I bet there are quite a few amsoil distributors who would contribute to that study. | ||
| Mikej |
Gonna take a bunch of engines to get a true test, and a properly designed test cycle or routine to ensure realistic results. Hmmmm, I'd wager that H-D and Buell both have a bunch of test results of various oils, as should several of the magazine test labs. How about several long term road tests where each of the BadWeb contributors gets a test bike to use for two years, all operating expenses paid, and the tranny oil changed and analyzed at each recommended mileage point as stated in the service manual. At 30,000 miles, or at a point of failure, the bikes or at least their trannys, will be disassembled and thoroughly inspected for wear patterns. Hmmm, typing that makes me wonder if something along those lines has already been done on a smaller scale. I wonder if we have any test riders reading the site here who can say if during their bike testing if they were testing different lubricants as well as the bike itself. | ||
| Blake |
No sponsorship by ANY vendor would be allowed. There are two approaches. One is a strict lab analysis of new oil. The other is an operational test. I'm only interested in the strict lab analysis. The operational testing is darn near impossible to get any meaningful results. There are just way too many variables and uncertainties. I would expect the lab to run shear stability and viscosity retention tests. I wouldn't be surprised if the desired testing would run well into the thousands. We might have to cut back on some aspects. |
