| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Motorcyclenews has published the first test of the 1125R from the launch at Laguna, and is the first test to be published in a UK publication. The tester was the senior road tester for MCN, Trevor Franklin, who is extremely experienced and is in no way a Buell hater (just in case you thought so after reading the test!). Unfortunatelyt the test is nowhere near as glowing as the US based testers have reported, and even though he acknowledges the bike is pre-production he certainly doesn't mince his words or hold back any punches in the write up. Objects of his scorn include: Forks that lack feel and are underdamped & oversprung. Snatchy fuel injection at low revs. Vibration through the bars and mirors. Instruments & warning lights that can't be seen in sunlight. An exhaust described as 'looking like something knocked out in a hurry by a visually impaired, physically challenged person in a shed'. His overall verdict was: ' Buell's 1125R has the hallmarks of being a great road & track bike: Showa multi adjustable suspension, a lunging great V-Twin motor, stiff frame and 25 years of development behind it. But for various reasons it hasn't come together to light a fire in our pants. Not yet anyway. The front suspension is apparently down to the wrong rate of spring being installed - too strong to allow the forks to use the damping system correctly - and Showa not being able to supply the correct springs in time. And I'm not sure if the compression and rebound adjustment is balanced or fine enough, regardless of spring. The fuelling/ignition issue Buell knew about and were downloading every scrap of info from the tested bikes ECU systems to its Wisconsin base to sort an answer. Answers will also be looked for: the swinging arm getting scuffed from boot boot heel attack;the rider's foot getting boiled by the exhaust heat; warning lights that can't be seen; and a strong smell of petrol at a standstill with a hot engine (possible routing problem of internal pipes within the frame which serves as the fuel tank). The more I think about it, the more I am certain that Buell has got caught with its development pants pulled down - the bike simply wasn't ready for the launch. On paper and from a long way off, the Buell looks bloody good fun and good value at £8495, certainly good enough and cheap anough to make Europe's V-Twin manufacturers cough in surprise. But, Like Spain, the 1125R won't be good enough until it is finished'. I have spoked to a couple of other UK journalists who attended the launch and they are of the same general opinion unfortunately. The biggest conclusion from most of them was that Buell should have delayed the launch until the problems were sorted instead of 'doing their washing in public' by getting people to ride unfinished bikes. This will undoubtedly colour the views of many UK riders who trust the tests done by the 'serious' press on new bikes. As I have said in a previous thread, unveiling pre-production bikes to the press is a very sharp double edges sword. | ||
| Jaimec |
OUCH! Odd how none of the other reviews (from the U.S.) mention anything along these lines. As far as the front end, this is the FIRST negative I've seen; everyone else was glowing about the front end feel! Nationalistic pride on the part of the American journalists, perhaps? | ||
| Court |
Cool . . . out of 150 of the world's most respected journalists (with some great riders among their number) I confess even I'd be pretty wary if I got 150 "10 out of 10" reports. Everyone arrives with presumptions, expectations, cultural bias and expectations based on everything from the roads they ride on to the pre-press info they've been fed. Most folks in the world also have an opinion of the hosts from Harley-Davidson and I'd suggest that, if only subliminally, their mindset will be influenced depending on if they got hung up on or accommodated the last time they asked for a long term test bike. In the world of opinion . . . .well there is opinion, generally not consensus. Motorcycles are about as subjective as "pretty women" and opinions can be expected to cover the same range. I'm pleased they thought the bike at least worthy of spending a week of their time to come take through the paces and note, as a result of their pre-production ride, they've not abandoned their request for a production unit the first moment one becomes available.  | ||
| Trojan |
Nationalistic pride on the part of the American journalists, perhaps? I think there is an element of truth in that statement, as obviously the US press are very keen to have a home built world class bike to write about. The same thing happens here at the launch of just about every new Triumph. Experience levels amongst road testers varies enormously at these events, ranging from semi professional racers to hacks looking for a free meal ticket and a ride around for a few days. I remeber the at Ulysses launch there were a few journalists present who had probably not ridden a bike for years! Trevor Franklin belongs in the first group and is very experienced, so I think his ire was definitely aimed at the bike being 'unfinished' and he based his whole report on that fact. Other UK journos that I have spoken with expressed the same concerns over the suspension and unfinished appearance of the bike, but we wait to see exactly what they will write. As Court says, motorcycles elicit very different opinions from different people. Most of the UK tester I have spoken to describe the bike as 'More VTR1000 than SP2', yet the Canadian report gives the impression that the 1125 would kick superbikes arses quite easily. One of them must be wrong......but which. Personally I will wait till we get ours to see what it is like (Message edited by trojan on August 29, 2007) | ||
| Josh_ |
The exhaust heat on the foot I hadn't seen anywhere else, but other than the opposite comment about the ease-of-viewing of the indicators all of his points have been mentioned by others. | ||
| Slaughter |
Wondering how much time they have to set up the bike for their own ride and how many different of the fleet they had the chance to try - or are they just stuck with "THE" bike they start with? When the "fleet is in" here at Willow Springs, we're going to try to work it so that we CAN set the bikes up for the riders who will be riding them - though I'd have to assume an experienced rider on that press intro would have certainly set the bike up pretty thoroughly for him/herself (though I have to say that a one-session track experience can't really teach you much about a bike unless there's something glaringly great of glaringly bad) | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Slaughter.... The "fleet" that you'll see at Willow will be different from that of Laguna. Trojan's point re the testing of pre-production motorcycles being a "two-edged sword" is spot on. One edge cleaves as did Trevor, the other slices away problems in that the input from the Trevor's of the world can be reviewed and adjustments made. I suspect that every time the fleet shows up it will feature improved motorcycles. In talking with numerous of those in attendance at Laguna, plus my own limited experience there, I never came across anything that was truly a design fault. Certainly I noticed different set-ups, indications that there were different revision levels in play and occasional negative comments. However, the motorcycle is very impressive overall.BTW, riders at Laguna had full assistance from Buell in setting up the bike to suit there requirements. The biggest hurdle facing the 1125R is not whether or not it is a good motorcycle but, rather, how it compares with the benchmarks that have ruled for years, e.g., the R1, et al. Magazines employ a forced ranking process that, by definition, has winners and losers. The problem, of course, is that the "loser" tag can be earned by virtue of a lagging tenth of second, or a slower-by-5mph. The biggest issue, though, is that most buyers use these numbers as a buying guide. Court makes some excellent point re the bias that we all bring to these things. I imagine it's seriously frustrating to an engineer when their product is judged by touchy-feely criteria rather than the specifics they so strive to achieve. (BTW, Court, the number was more like 75). My suggestion... I know, you didn't ask... is to look only with mild interest at the "tests" (they're really not, you know) currently being issued. If you're looking for the written gospel (or as close to it as you'll get) wait for the full test articles on actual production motorcycles, and certainly--if you get the chance--ride one. | ||
| Rich |
Reg, "ride one" is right. Only I know if I like a bike or not. (Message edited by Rich on August 29, 2007) | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Rich... And that is the absolute key to making sure you have the right motorcycle in your garage. | ||
| Court |
So now we've a "co-efficient of credibility" metric. ./. 150 - Number of Claimed Journalcyclists in Attendance = .50 multiplier See . . .I should have gone. Any way ya cut it, it looks like a fun bike but pales in comparison to the Uly I'm lusting over . . . right gun for the right game. By the way . . . there's also about a 412% chance I mis-read the number in attendance amongst the variety of stories I've already read and translated. Reg. . thanks for the "heads up" and I'm looking forward to your take on the production bike. Court | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Courtster... I'm looking out my office window at an '08 Big Unit sitting in my driveway. This is an amazing motorcycle that has gotten significantly better in '08. (Note: This is not a thread hijack. Please carry on with your racy bike discussion.) | ||
| Court |
Stop. . . stop. . . stop! . . . Coming from you, that gets a 1.4CC and could cost me big-time!  We now return you to your regularly scheduled race thread or whatever it was. . . I'm frickin' obsessed I tell ya! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Seems like the first 3 problem that Franklin mentioned have been addressed by Buell as pre-production glitches. His opinion of the readability of the instrument cluster is the first that I have heard of that issue. The bagging on the exhaust is purely subjective and as long as it sounds good and is free flowing, I don't care what it looks like. Any chance at posting the entire article as I am assuming this article is available in a print only MCN? | ||
| Crusty |
I'm frickin' obsessed I tell ya! Court; quit fighting it. You're going to get one. It's a Buell addiction that only gets worse the more you think about, ride or look at one. You are powerless to resist it. All you can do is just decide what color would be best for you. ( I recommend that sexy BARRICADE ORANGE) Of course, BLUE isn't a bad color, either. Wouldn't it be a gas to ride a Uly over to Liberty's Big Gig next month? | ||
| Ratbuell |
If Court needs a Uly, he should give me a call. I can get him a smokin' deal on a brand new never titled '06 Barricade Orange, 149 guided demo miles... | ||
| Dbird29 |
That '08 Uly rode great at the Sturgis demo. Does Court need a paypal collection or something to get with it? How about a charity and we hit a certain amount and Court buys the bike. We would certainly have new stories and fewer "remind me to tell you sometime" reminisces. | ||
| Trojan |
Any chance at posting the entire article as I am assuming this article is available in a print only MCN? Unfortunately the article runs to around 3 pages, and as dedicated as I am to the cause I can't be bothered to copy type all that! Trust me when I say that the three pages pretty much condenses to the point above when you take out all the nif naf. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Trojan, no problem. Though possible a scan and post, didn't expect you to type the whole article. Thanks. Maybe another MCN subscriber can do it as I know i will never see the print article. Thanks. (Message edited by fresnobuell on August 30, 2007) | ||
| Court |
Actually . . . I am learning to appreciate why folks are agonizing over the '06 vs '07 vs '08 question, in that there are some good deals on used Ulys out there and they '06 and '07 are fairly well sorted out by now . . . very few "surprise" issues. I was in the local dealer yesterday and they don't have a single Blast or Uly in . . .they've sold like hotcakes and the '08's have yet to arrive. I can resist . . I know I can. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Court... Wait for the '08.... price be damned. It is that much better a motorcycle | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
Reg, just curious,do you have an 08, as I have thought about trading up but cannot imagine an 08 being better than my 06. | ||
| Crusty |
I can resist . . I know I can. Sure you can! And I can give up riding my Uly any time I want to - I just don't want to! I bet a decent dealership would give you a fair deal on a new Uly; but where would you find such a dealership? (You can give me the answer on my birthday).  | ||
| Court |
For those of you new to Buell . . . THERE's a review that matters. Case closed. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Iron... I have an '08 press bike; put about a thousand miles on it during the past 2 weeks. Last year I ran a 24/1000 event on an '06. All total I tallied about 4k miles on that one In some ways the differences can be viewed as quite subtle. For me, however, they represent major improvement. The biggest one is the 20-degree increase in steering lock. To us shorter folk that makes a huge difference... and it's got nothing to do with the dirt. Given that my toes barely touch the ground at a stop, I need the increased swing to counter any tendency to flop on the ground. The thicker front forks also improve the stability of an already impressively stable motorcycle. The heated grips are a nice touch. Throttle action is now non-linear, allowing gentle applications of it on loose ground (See: Dirt/short people/flop on ground) It also.... at lease the one I have, to be faster. I could not get the '06 over a GPS-monitired 113. All in all, an improved motorcycle. It still has a lame dash (What's with the 160mph speedo?), inadequate lights, and a clutch cable that obscures the odo; an attemp was made to reroute it on the 08...dinna work. This is a VERY good motorcycle | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good observation with regards to the speedo. It's depressing to me how many people who should know better look at my bike and say "it goes 160mph? Wow!". (My answer, btw, is "it only goes that fast when I drop it out of an airplane".) | ||
| Court |
I'm still amazed that they have NO press bikes on the East Coast. Frankly, kinda being tagged as the "Buell Guy" it's embarrassing when I go to the Forbes's place at Bedminister or had to park my BMW and go in to speak about Buells. Even with the print press in CA, you'd think with my old girlfriend Meredith now doing the Today show, they'd keep at least ONE Buell somewhere East of Nevada. Drats . . . . . | ||
| Dbird29 |
If there was one on the East Coast we would have to hear how you ALMOST were going to pull the trigger on getting an 1125R. Isn't it enough to torture yourself (us) with the ALMOST Uly purchase?  What will it take for you to just buy the Uly? | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Court... Interesting point,and one that I've discussed with more than a few people. California has an almost exclusive lock on press bikes. Obviously, it's because SoCal... in particular.... has an abundance of bike pubs, writers, and US hqs. This was all well and good when the companies concentrated on mnaking sure the choir members were well taken care of. Now, however, the industry realizes that it needs to get in mainstreams media's face. That dictates a more widespread distribution of press donkeys. Couple of problems, though: 1) lack of mc license by many auto writers (they's be the logical target), 2) significant cost to maintain a depot, 3)having yet more motorcycles getting trashed. There is a key move some could make to get a press bike.... but damned if I'll reveal THAT secret. | ||
| Court |
No need to . . . I realize the media folks have procedures and rules and I think they do a really good job. I have a "dual edged" sword in that having a manufactures plate on a bike adds some credibility at places like Marcus Dairy, Forbes, the Guggenheim Motorcycle Club and to some of my buds who are anchors on the local news. It's kinda fun having David Crosby, Chris Matthews and Laurence Fishburne drooling over the Buell, odd town this. It's also fun, I always hark back to the time Ducati invited me to speak on Ducati history at the grand opening of their Flagship store and, with the media cameras all poised in front of the store to record the arrival of local celebs (one on rollerblades being pulled by a Dachshund named Mr. Brown) I arrived, as snow lightly fell, aboard a gorgeous red Buell M-2 Cyclone. It made great press material. I've also had the chance, when I had the CityX to accidently park the bike in the background of some movie sets. I have unusual access to places in Manhattan as a result of my work and studies. Anyway . . at the same time there are, as I don't need to tell you, LOTS of strings attached and therein lies great value in BUYING a bike. I've got to convince my wife that it's cool to spend $700 a month on "Buell business" and then toss a motorcycle on top of it . . . when there are already "plenty" (her words, not mine) in the house. The other thing, just to me, that would see interesting now is simply parking the Buell the places I park everyday in Manhattan. When they sent me the CityX I came out of places in SoHo about 4 times to find business cards wanting to know "where can I buy one of these?". The final element is "mediation". One of the engineers at Buell had a situation a while back wherein a professional society acquaintance had the customer experience from hell. When you show up on a "factory bike" it's instant cred. come to think of it . . . buying might be better but one way or the other, I'm eager to ride a Ulysses . . a loooooooooooooong way. | ||
| Ebear |
OK...OK.....Them's easy lines to read between....Please Erik...Isn't there some way a "Test" bike could be rounded up to prove that our favorite "Courtster" is still way capable of , say , Riding a ULY all the way to Laguna Seca for the AMA final?...Or maybe to the 1125r track day at Willow???? or even to Laguna???? I , for one , would think that some people might enjoy sloshing through snow,sleet and rain to end up at a dry lakebed to show us SoCal'ers a thing or two! | ||
| Ebear |
PS....sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to me it's been a long time since Court was seen west of the Rockies!!! | ||
| Neb25 |
I do not care about any of the things Mr. Trevor Franklin had complaints about. The forks will be sprung for my weight and revalved for the track. Won't be spending much time at low revs. Mirrors will come off and I don't mind a little vibration anyway. I race an XBR. Just need a glimpse of the tach to see redline to shift. Exhaust will be covered with a belly pan. Besides how often do you see a Buell with a stock exhaust. Don't care about scuffs on the swingarm. Good chance it will be crashed once or twice during a race season. Talked to a guy who crashed one in Cal. and said they crash well. I am even warming up to the idea of heated grips for those first few trackdays of the year when the morning temps are freezing. Can't push too hard with big fat gloves on. | ||
| Halsracing |
BUELL invites the press from around the world to ride a pre production bike on one of the most demanding road courses on the planet(chassis-tires-gearing-mapping)takes Balls. Or you could take the other approach and launch your new liter class bike for 08 but not let the press see it. Things that make you go HMMM. I think I read somewhere it's all about the rider - how true. Go Eric TG | ||
| Halsracing |
PS That other bike I am referring to starts with a H and I think there press launch was two days ago. TG |
