| Author | Message | ||
     Earwig |
So, how come the oil isn't in the swing arm on the 1125? | ||
| Jaimec |
Doesn't need to be; the reservoir is on the engine. How's that for mass centralization? | ||
| Bads1 |
Doesn't need to be; the reservoir is on the engine. How's that for mass centralization Boy the Japanese inlines have alot to learn from that. | ||
| Hootowl |
From what I understand it is not a wet sump. It is still a dry sump oiling system, they just integrated the tank into the engine case. Are the Japanese IL4 engines dry sumps? I have no idea. The last UJM I owned was a 74 CB550. | ||
| Anonymous |
No the Japanese are wet sumps, but facts won't stop BADS1 from a good old weekly bash at us. | ||
| Diablo1 |
The Japanese have certainly built dry sump engines as well as wet sump engines. The Yamaha XT500 is one example, which had the oil in the frame. Here's another patent from them. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1498583.html | ||
| Coal400 |
Certainly a strange phenomenon around here. Quite a few folks seem to make the pilgrimage to this buell board, just so they can bash the brand.  | ||
| Blake |
BadS1 bashing? I think you've confused him for someone else. Dana Peterson is no basher. He's the man who folks call when they need help getting a killer custom paint job done in record time.  | ||
| Bads1 |
I really didn't think it was a bash.lol It was more of just a giggle from Jaimec's post.... no pun intended. Anony, I'd have to say Buell is the last thing I'd bash and never have after several years of contributing here. Next time if ya have a snide comment at least use your user name instead of hiding in back of the Anonymous option.LOL | ||
| Jaimec |
It didn't even make sense as the Japanese IL4's don't have an oil reservoir per se, they have a wet sump. Can't put a wet sump on the Buell engine without making it very difficult to have that huge underslung muffler AND sufficient ground clearance... | ||
| Bob_thompson |
If my understanding is correct dry sumps, mostly used in racing and now in street engines, was to get an advantage from not having the crankshaft spinning directly in the oil reservoir and create parasitic loss of H.P. Some wet sump racing engines use a deep sump to achieve a similar effect by dropping the oil level lower then the crank. Am I fairly correct or way off guys. Seems like a MUST for best H.P. | ||
| Hootowl |
I think you're right on there Bob. The splashing not only robs power, but it foams the oil. Some folks put scrapers in there to clean off the crank too. | ||
| Bads1 |
I just asked a buddy that is into racing car's... (Roadracing) and his car is dry sump. He said that all the oil can really Rob the motor. Dry Sump is the way to go.Heres his car,damn thing is being sold on Ebay. Fastest car I've ever been in my entire life. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-wide-body-723hp-nascar-engine-NASA-race-car_W0QQitemZ150146719975QQihZ005QQcategoryZ98064QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  | ||
| Clutchless |
HOLY SMOKES I'm a car nut so nice ride, too bad its a mustang...otherwise we could hang out. J/K we would never hang out, only race. Anyways....I've heard (but never tried) of car guys actually making the edges of the crank angled like a point almost to "cut" into the oil of a wet sump system instead of the flat bottom that slaps the oil and splashes. Like the difference of a belly flop into the oil pan or a smooth precise dive. Thank god us on a Harley pushrod motor dont have to worry cause our cranks are always at the same depth in oil because of the round flywheel attached to the crank Like a paddle on a old steam boat. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Alot of the "hi-perf" cars in the 60's and 70's used a windage tray (LS-6 454 etc.)to keep oil off the crank, drag racers had deep sump pans to get the oil off the crank,Nascar has been dry sump for eons, all our present Buells are dry sump set-ups, and crank scrapers and knife edging crank weights are done,too. | ||
| Bads1 |
Well my buddy's car sold. It sold for what it would cost to build that motor. Fastest car I've ever been in. Watching that thing at RA was just wow!!! 168 MPH when he had to shot down for turn one. Well the money is going to his other car. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Thank god us on a Harley pushrod motor dont have to worry cause our cranks are always at the same depth in oil because of the round flywheel attached to the crank." I'm pretty sure if everything is working right, the crank halves aren't in any depth of oil. That's the whole point of having the dry sump. There's oil slinging off the crank, hence the scraper, but it certainly shouldn't be spinning in oil... at least not all the time. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Those Japanese manufacturers are so dumb. They invest hundreds of million in engine development and they haven't figured out how much more horsepower they would get using a dry sump.... Maybe, as alluded to above, the only reason Buell needs a remote oil resevoir is because the muffler is below the engine where the sump would be. | ||
| Hootowl |
HD has been using dry sumps for decades. It has nothing to do with space available under the engine. | ||
| Jaimec |
Well, in Harley's case... it allows the saddle to be so low the rider scrapes his butt cheeks in corners. That is, if the typical Driveway Jewelry purchaser ever actually RODE his purchase... | ||
| Hootowl |
...or cornered hard enough for it to come into play. | ||
| Spatten1 |
HD has been using dry sumps for decades. It has nothing to do with space available under the engine. I'm referring to the 1125, which has very little in common with the current engines, and thankfully very little in common with HD engineering tradition. (Message edited by spatten1 on August 24, 2007) | ||
| Hootowl |
But the 1125r does not use a remote reservoir, it is in the bottom of the engine case. Above the muffler. | ||
| Spatten1 |
But the 1125r does not use a remote reservoir, it is in the bottom of the engine case. Above the muffler. Yep, and isn't it great they got rid of a few oil lines in the prcess. | ||
| Ceejay |
dry sump helps with the cooling-I'm pretty sure in HD's case it doesn't make sense to have the thing your trying to cool sitting in the same thing creating the heat. Since they weren't concerned as much with weight as they were about seat height and asthetics, why not give the lump a bag. | ||
| Djkaplan |
...why not give the lump a bag. Probably because excessive oil temp isn't a problem and keeping the oil next to the engine helps with the mass centralization dictum. Dictum... never used that word before I'm pretty sure. | ||
| Spatten1 |
He said Dicktum. | ||
| Hootowl |
<snort> tee hee |
