| Author | Message | ||
     Microchop |
Hey guys. Just to avoid the hassle of getting one to measure it, does anyone know the industry equivalent part number for the drain plug o-rings? I have no problem with going to our sponsors or other dealers for parts that are unique, but O-rings are too easy to get from so many other sources. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Good Lord man! They're O Rings. Any HD dealer has them. Surely you don't think they could screw THAT up! | ||
| Microchop |
No, I don't, but my buddy works for a major industrial supply warehouse. I'll buy 100 of them for what it costs in gas and time to get 1 at the dealer. (Message edited by microchop on August 17, 2007) | ||
| Slaughter |
Just go to a better autoparts house and use their O-ring selector thingy. buy one and record the numbers. You can also see if there's a Motion Industries in your area and take the plug in there. They've been really helpful with me getting weird O-rings for my underwater stuff. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Use teflon tape... | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Do not use Teflon tape in lieu of an O-Ring! Teflon tape is for sealing tapered threads. The threads on the oil drain plugs are straight threads. While the manual calls for thread sealant, it's not intended as the primary seal -- that's the job of the O-Ring. The 11105 HD O-Ring as used on the drain plugs is a #10 O-Ring which measures 11/16" OD x 1/2" ID x 3/32" cross sectional diameter. One of the local Harley dealers won't stock $1 Harley O-Rings and, instead, sells the generic stuff for a quarter. I bought a Nitrile O-Ring assortment from Harbor Freight for $2.88 on sale and there are about ten of the size needed for the oil drains. | ||
| Interex2050 |
I have never had any issues with using teflon tape -no leaks -to top it off it acts like a threadlocker is there any reason not to use it if it works? | ||
| Fmaxwell |
There's only three reasons that I can think of: 1. Because it may stop working. 2. Less likely, but possible, is that fragments of the tape may end up in an oil passage. 3. Because the friggin' o-rings are only $.25 each and then you're doing the the way that you're supposed to. You can find people who who reuse wrist pin circlips, reuse gaskets, don't use Loctite where the manual calls for it, use Quaker State 10W-40 in the crankcase, don't even own a torque wrench, and never change the oil filter. And for every practice like that, you will find someone who says that it's never caused them a problem. On my bike, I'll spring for two $.25 O-Rings at each oil change. | ||
| Cixyx_pilot |
Standard HD part, easy to get , only 25 cents. Why take the chance?   | ||
| Teeps |
The whole drain plug assembly, complete with o'ring and thread sealant is only $2.50. But that doesn't stop me from using aluminum crush washers... Why you ask? Because I have a bunch of them. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Hmm... I still think that its a viable option instead of o-rings... Its just not something that I can find enough justifaction to make a fuss over especially since I have been using teflon tape for years... As Teeps mentioned, use what is at hand. But surely this is not to say that I do not understand what your saying... | ||
| Fmaxwell |
On a straight thread oil plug, the sealing interface is the shoulder of the plug and the face of the crankcase/oil tank. That's why it makes sense to use an O-ring or crush washer there. Crush washers and O-Rings are both working on the oil plug's primary sealing interface, so they are often a reasonable substitution for one another. On tapered threads (typically NPT threads), the sealing interface is the thread to thread contact. The threads are very carefully engineered to provide a reliable seal, fully seating within one another when tightened. The Teflon tape just liquefies under pressure and fills in all of the voids and unevenness in the threads. I don't mean to give you the impression that I'm trying to dictate how you should wrench on your own bike (I'm not), but I really enjoy engineering discussion of this sort. You probably won't have any problem worse than an oil drip if your method fails you, but there is a chance that Teflon could migrate into your engine (unlikely and unlikely to cause harm, but not impossible). | ||
| Interex2050 |
No such negative impressions even come to mind, just a very interesting dicussion... Perhaps the reason the teflon does not leak on me is because I make sure there is quite a bit of it on there, and even more towards the head of the bolt... Although it would be interesting to test them side by side... Or I could just use gasket maker... But I certainly see your point about how I am using teflon tape in a way its not supposed be used... | ||
| Ccryder |
FWIW: Buell calls out to use Loctite 565 on the threads: 565 Thread sealant T-Tape can get into little places where it should not be and clog those small openings. Been there, done that, learned from that, don't want to experience it again. Neil S. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Agreed about Buell calling out Loctite 565 thread sealant. For that, I do substitute a generic thread sealant containing Teflon (it's rated for use on oil lines). But the thread sealant is a secondary line of defense in case of a failure of the O-ring seal. Using it, or Teflon tape, alone is like jumping from an airplane with just a backup chute. Okay, that's a bit overly dramatic, but you get the point. Agreed about Teflon tape clogging things that it should not. I don't use it for things connected to engines for that reason (ever see what Teflon tape does to a carb jet?). It has really fallen into disfavor with liquid thread sealants, often containing Teflon, largely supplanting it. That's something that I learned just from doing a little research for this discussion. | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
I can't believe there is so much noise about an O-ring for a Buell! ! ! geez-o-man ! "industry equivalent part number" COME ON DUDE/ETTE ! why do you need 100 o-rings for? they last more then 1 oil change. teflon tape does work too and is safe to use and china makes zillions of miles of it for pennies. i think i bought o-rings from home deschmo for use on a harley fxd and its fine... | ||
| Microchop |
Southsidebuellone and everyone else who wonders "Why would someone buy bulk o-rings?": 1) Because I can! 2) I have 2 Buells to service 3) I can use them in other projects 4) Other Buellers may need them 5) A package of 100 O-rings is about $3.00 Certainly the collective Badweb raises more of a stink over littler things. I thought that coming up with easier, everyday-available solutions was encouraged by Buell owners. But don't worry, if you're ever in SoCal and need one, just look me up in the RAN, I'll share with you.  - Jason | ||
| Fmaxwell |
It's just an interesting engineering discussion related to Buells. No need to read it if it's not your kind of thing. An O-ring MIGHT last for more than one oil change. Or it might get damaged through pressure/heat and need replacement. For $.25, I'll just follow the recommendations in the manual and replace it. Teflon tape is not always safe to use on an engine. It can clog oil passages in lifters. It can clog other small oil passages. When used on fuel line fittings, it can clog jets and injectors. When used on nitrous systems, it can clog jets and interfere with solenoid closure. That's one reason why paste type thread sealers have become so much more popular. | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
I believe that the oil filter would pick up any stray teflon tape crumbs since the oil is filtered first before it enters the engine, or is that incorrect? And teflon itself Is a lubricant material, but then again I'm not a chemical engineer. I can't imagine a piece of teflon tape doing anything. The way some of these guys ride these Buells is for sure way worse damage then any piece of miniscule teflon tape would cause. I supposed 123,600 miles on a superglide which I have teflon taped for quite a bit of those miles on the transmission plugs and the oil drain plug as well as the primary drain plug and NOTHING ever happened due to some teflon stuff isn't that enough miles on a real world motor application to say teflon ok? It's on the THREADS not wrapped around the lifters ! | ||
| Fmaxwell |
I supposed 123,600 miles on a superglide which I have teflon taped for quite a bit of those miles on the transmission plugs and the oil drain plug as well as the primary drain plug and NOTHING ever happened due to some teflon stuff isn't that enough miles on a real world motor application to say teflon ok? Correct. It is not. It says that one person on one bike has not had a problem yet. It's on the THREADS not wrapped around the lifters ! And how do you know, after you've tightened the drain plug down, that some little bit of it, large enough to clog a journal on a lifter, did not get pushed into the engine? Will the filter pick it up? Maybe. But by that argument, why bother with wiping dirt off of the dipstick or funnel? The engineers at Harley thinks that the O-ring is necessary. So do the ones at Buell. They also recommend using liquid thread sealant rather than Teflon tape. You can find numerous resources by and for engineering and trade professionals that will tell you that Teflon tape is used for sealing tapered threads and that O-rings are for sealing connections made with straight threads. For example: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=81959&p age=1 Here's one from a Harley forum in which someone rightly states that it is "wrong to use tape because if a piece breaks off it could clog an oil gallery. True gear heads never use any." http://www.hdforums.com/archive/threads/drain-plug -on-primary-588720-1.html Here's one from an article in Sport Compact Car in which they say Spare the Teflon tape for your next home improvement project, as pieces can easily find themselves lodged in the oil line here. The author is referring to Teflon tape on a Honda oil pressure sensor: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0411scc_ls_ vtech_engine/index.html If you're going to tell us that all of those engineers and mechanics are wrong, could you at least explain why? | ||
| Djkaplan |
I haven't changed the O-ring on my transmission drain plug in 7 years. I saved about $2.25 by doing this. I'm going to buy a beer tonight with the O-ring money I saved. | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
10 microns - 5 microns. thats smaller then a piece of teflonion **** oil ----> filter first---> motor | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
If you're going to tell us that all of those engineers and mechanics are wrong, could you at least explain why? ENgineers were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY wrong when they design this piece of crap twin cam engine which uses some sort of bakelite-ish cam tensioner material that CHIPS off in CHIPS ! teflon tape will DO NOTHING TO NOTHING forEVER comparatively ! buy a 40 dollar cam tensioner shoe for a 1999 Twin Cam motor and you will SEE for yourself that it will chip off with a vengeance ! to teflon tape or not to teflon tape is like spitting in your gas tank ! | ||
| Djkaplan |
ENgineers were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY wrong when they design this piece of crap I've met some really dum engginers in the past 20 years. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
oil ----> filter first---> motor Does your oil filter have a bypass valve? Has it ever opened?} | ||
| Blake |
"I haven't changed the O-ring on my transmission drain plug in 7 years. I saved about $2.25 by doing this. I'm going to buy a beer tonight with the O-ring money I saved."  I need to do a spreadsheet. I've done that and other stuff like that for decades! I'm owed a BUNCH of beer! | ||
| Pso |
The parts fellow at Seaford Hardley could not find the o ring part and did not think that the Uly used one. O well just give the lad a majic marker and let him color in his tattoos. I have always used crush washers and was sort of suprised when I found out Buell uses thread sealer and an o ring. | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
" The 11105 HD O-Ring as used on the drain plugs is a #10 O-Ring which measures 11/16" OD x 1/2" ID x 3/32" cross sectional diameter. " Actually... that dude that said the #10 is the correct o-ring for the drain bolt is el wrongo to my knowledge. I was just at home deschmo and found that to my eye the # 41 is the exact fitment. 9/16" o.d. x 7/16"i.d x 1/16" Home Depot # 96755 , Danco brand. In the plumbing section. I took the drain plug and the o-ring, the brand new one I have with me and compared. #10 too wide. | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
Fmaxwell Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:56 pm: oil ----> filter first---> motor Does your oil filter have a bypass valve? Has it ever opened?} I have No idea if the bypass valve ever fired. I also ran the following types of filters in those 124,500 (soon to be 125k, maybe this weekend). a. Harley brand. b.Fram (the motorcycle one, but some Leathernecks guys i met at a bike night told me the PH 3614 IS ( and i checked) the same exact filter that they sell as a motorcycle filter and they are RIGHTO ! c. STP motorcycle filters from Autozone. They don't sell these any more. The SMO-022<--? number. The oil light stayed on a little longer at startup (compared to when an H-D one is on there) with the cheapo aftermarket ones is all I noticed. The TC engine does in fact filter oil before it goes to the engine. look it up. Here are the longest mile harleys I personally SAW. A guy from florida had a 1997 Green. Road King with 200,000+ miles. He ran cheapo filters and ran 60 mph. was his trick. An 81; Hells Angel guy with 121,000 GREEN FXD; and that was in like 6 years or so. I spoke to him at Thompson Raceway in Thompson, Ohio. That one was a 96- or 1997, the same green as the road king above. Get your old bike catalogs to see what colors were in those years. and though I never saw this bike, but there was a 400,000 mile harley and i believe it was an Ultra Classic. The man turned 400,000 or something and harley bought the bike back and gave him a new one. That was written up in American Iron Magazine. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/davebarr/ " Dave Barr is a native Californian who rode his 1972 Harley-Davidson around the world. His journey carried him across six continents and took a grueling three and a half years (September 1990 - May 1994) and 83,000 ridden miles to complete. To date, only eighty-nine others have successfully toured the world on motorcycle, but Dave is the only one to do it on a Harley. If this wasn't enough of a distinction, he's also the only disabled person to have accomplished such a feat. Dave is a double amputee, who lost both of his legs to a land mine explosion in Angola in 1981. Dave has written and published "Riding The Edge", a five hundred page book which documents his journey around the world and has also produced a video by the same name. " Thats wide glide front end on the bike. http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/davebarr/Edgepix01.ht ml http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/davebarr/Edgepix. html So you Uly guys got some work to do. So, go on and laugh at long mile Harleys and their riders. It shows what YOU guys are about. One guy posted a pic of an FXD in a mocking tone. Badweather did NOTHING about that. I I ride a 2003, Buell XB9SL and a Harley, 1999 FXD. I love them both for what they are. I critique them both for what they are. The pros and cons of any bike or brand is ever present. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
The bypass valve allows oil to bypass the filter when the pressure differential is too high between the in and out sides. When that happens the oil is not filtered while it's open. I'm not laughing at the miles that any biker has put in. I just don't believe that miles in the saddle, or even miles on one engine, is an indication that the person is an expert mechanic. (Message edited by fmaxwell on September 01, 2007) | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
I have not had any luck with fram filters so I avoid them. I have had the oring that seperates the incoming and outgoing oil fail on a couple of occasions. This was on a Jeep CJ7 with a in line 258. But I will never put another fram in anything I own. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
have not had any luck with fram filters so I avoid them. I have had the oring that seperates the incoming and outgoing oil fail on a couple of occasions. This was on a Jeep CJ7 with a in line 258. But I will never put another fram in anything I own. See, o-rings are noooo goooooood. i make my own oil filters. no o-rings, i use teflon tape instead. No O-rings, Use teflon- Mon!! (Message edited by badlionsfan on September 01, 2007) | ||
| Southsidebuellone |
who said anything about expert mechanics? not I. |
