| Author | Message | ||
     Wolfridgerider |
I just got done reading the Cherry Bomb Blues thread and it reminded me of some more stupid $hit I witnessed last Thursday. I was at the local dealer getting ready to teach Riders Edge when the owner walked in with a letter from a lawyer. It stated that they needed to pay royalties for ever cover song played by bands they have hired to play at the dealership or dealership functions! Isn't that cool!! So every Mom and Pop bar owner better make sure every band they hire plays nothing but original music or the man is going to send ya a bill.. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Should be paid by the band as a blanket agreement. If not, it should be paid by the sponsor of the event. Many times the blanket is already in place to cover the songs paid by the dealer on the "loop tape". http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html | ||
| Etennuly |
Another fine bunch of sheet! Yehaw !!! I'm dealing with IRS penalties for paying but not sending the form on time. And then being penalized for being late on paying that, because my accountant was checking and comparing as to what the penalty was for. Ain't life great sometimes???? | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
unbelievable. Is that insane or what. | ||
| Slaughter |
IF you use somebody else's music to make money, you are crossing the line. That's where royalties are SUPPOSED to be paid. I have been to many venues where live bands have covered other artists music. Technically a violation - but I wasn't going to be the one to call ASCAP and "rat out" the garage band playing Beach Boys, Steppenwolf, Lynrd Skynrd and other music by request. Most bars already have this covered, doubt that most motorcycle shops do. If you have a band doing their OWN music - it's not an issue. Whether they get paid or not is their choice. ASCAP has been in place for-freaking-ever in bars and other places to cover this kind of stuff. Juke boxes get the "take" to the artists. Yeah, this is nothing new. Yeah, it's a pain. IF the music is NOT copyrighted, it's not an issue or if it is being played by an individual for their own enjoyment, it's not an issue. There are stories here about a SoCA Thai restaurant who played an audio of a Thai band in the background. An ASCAP rep came in and started strong-arming them for money. Turns out that that music was NOT copyrighted but just a local band put together by a Thai cultural center - just FOR the purposes of promoting Thai culture. Poor restaurant owner thought he'd have to pay the devil until a local lawyer heard about it - and it made it on to the local news. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Music is intellectual property just like patents. We wouldn't think twice about using someone's patented technology without paying them for using it. The only difference is that music is ethereal. People don't think twice about ripping a cd and reproducing it for someone else. Not paying for someone's intellectual property is stealing. Technically playing someones cover without paying for it is stealing. | ||
| Chellem |
I can see a band having to pay (although I'm not sure I agree with that 100% either) but if I'm a dealer, hosting an event, and the band plays some songs, how is it MY responsibility to figure out who sings the songs, whether the songs are copyrighted, and who to pay money too, and for that matter, how much to pay? I don't even know what songs they're playing half the time. What if the artist is dead? How do *I* find out who his estate went to? I suppose I'm just supposed to pay some lawyer to do it for me? Great. Lawyers supporting lawyers. Just like everything else. Remind me to let my boss know I have to spend our next open house listening to the band, writing down every song, searching for the owner, contacting them, paying them, etc. etc. etc. It's just plain unreasonable. The people who are covering the music should be the ones who are in charge of that. After all, they're the ones making the money DIRECTLY from the music, right? Since we pay them? If they play for free, do they still have to pay for the songs? What if we don't sell anything? Bunch of CRAP. | ||
| Buellshyter |
ASCAP has been in place for-freaking-ever in bars and other places to cover this kind of stuff. Juke boxes get the "take" to the artists. I have a 1950's era jukebox. Should I be sending someone a check?  | ||
| Slaughter |
I have a 1950's era jukebox. Should I be sending someone a check? Oh man, you probably owe them 50 years of payments! I'll probably get a reward! | ||
| Slaughter |
Chellem, It IS a bunch of crap but if you are a business and NOT paying royalties, you can be vulnerable. The whole thing behind ASCAP/BMI is that that was a way to legitimize smaller users of the copyrighted songs. The money goes to the "proper" place... of course after it gets filtered through a few hands. | ||
| Mikej |
So, just so I can understand this what with my not currently being in the music business, if I simply write a song, copyright it (if necessary), and have it performed at a paying venue like a bar&grill then I can become a member for a one-time fee of $25.00 and no further annual fee, correct? So, if I did all that and were to join, how much money can I expect to receive? How is it determined how much each member gets? I mean is 50% of all revenue split between the Beattles, the Rolling Stones, and Elvis's estate, then the balance divided up on a descending scale? Just curious, really I am, I've been wondering about this stuff for years. When some local band plays three Steppenwolf tunes at a biker bar 15 minutes before last call is this recorded somewhere so Steppenwolf gets their cut? How much money has someone like Les Paul received from ASCAP over the years? Does anybody really know? | ||
| Glitch |
Where does fair use come in? So only bands that aren't getting paid can play cover tunes? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I live in Nashville, so I regularly pass the ASCAP, SESAC and BMI buildings. I only have a partial knowledge of the witchcraft. From my understanding, there are two types of agreements (I'm sure there are more than that, but....), specific and blanket. If you want to play music in your location, you either have a loop tape or you subscribe to a music service. Each music service or loop tape pays for the rights to use each song. The loop tapes must be returned after a certain amount of time. These agreements are song specific. With cover bands, the bands may play just about anything as a result, it's hard to know which specific songs they need to "rent", for how long, and for how many times. As a result, these bands must pay a blanket fee to use songs in general. My understanding is that these fees go into the general coffers and provide for variations in price per play. So if more people buy blanket agreements then the price may rise from $.10/play to $.11/play for all protected songs. Enforcement is difficult as you can imagine. How long did the stuff with Napster go on? Most cover bands are supposed to pay for the agreement themselves. Event promoters will require that the band that they book have the agreement, or pay for it themselves, or just blow it off. ASCAP and BMI have about 49% of the royalties market each. SESAC has about 2%. They each have reciprocal agreements for the catalogs they hold. | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Not paying for someone's intellectual property is stealing. " What if I like spiders bike and copy it? Should I pay him? Perhaps a guy at the gym likes my training style or crazy exercises. Should he pay me> A line in the sand?????? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you had copyrighted something like Tai-Bo and someone knocked off your program down to the name, that would be illegal. Spidey's bike is already an infringement of Marvel Comics' copyright. Even Stan Lee would say it was bitchin', though! | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Ain't that a bunch of caca (read s^!^)!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Sshbsn |
Dad was a lifetime member of the musician's union. He had a VERY low opinion of ASCAP. Seems that, at least at one time, they were very good at grabbing money, but not so good at passing it along to the bands they were supposedly collecting it for. Bet that sort of thing's never happened before... | ||
| Ryker77 |
lawyers, lawsuits, and liberals... They've done some good -- but mostly harmed the nation. | ||
| Bads1 |
Tell the owner to throw the letter away. It's about as good as the paper its written on..... no t good. Seen that letter twice in the 11 years in the bar biz. Over the Juke Box. |
