| Author | Message | ||
     Mikef5000 |
OK! This is another one of those posts where I'm absolutely pissed, and I type out my whole problem, then I go outside while I wait for a reply and I figure out the whole thing out. (I hope) I rebuilt my rear brake caliper this afternoon. No Problem! It took 10 minutes. Got the inside all clean, installed new seals, and a new piston, and good to go. I put some brake fluid in the caliper before re-installing it to speed up the flushing process (this could be my problem???) Bolt everything back up, and hook the still full line back to the caliper, and start my standard bleeding. Pump brake pedal, hold down, open then close bleeder, and repeat. Fluid was pumping out, but the pedal was not getting any pressure at all. After half an hour of that, I proceeded to find a different approach. (Beginning to get unhappy about now) I found a turkey baster type thing, and connected the tube to it, I pulled a suction and opened the bleeder. 100% bubbles, TONs of constant bubbles. Great! I kept refilling the resivoir, but the FREAKING BUBBLES NEVER STOPPED! I mean, I've flushed an entire bottle of fluid through the damn system, and it's still TONS of bubbles, and there's STILL NO PRESSURE behind the pedal. I can't hear any air seeping in anywhere in the system, so I don't have a clue where all the bubbles are coming from. I've seriously been at this for 2 hours now. I MUST be doing something stupid. There MUST be a reason. Could the master cylinder have gone or something crazy like that? It worked fine before I pulled the caliper. Caliper was off 10 minutes, then it won't work at all. It builds the slightest amount of pressure up, the pedal goes straight to bottoming out, but when its at the bottom I can feel the slightest bit of drag on the brake. Worst case scenario is I'm doing a 2500 mile ride out west with no back brake. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Ok... crack the line, at the caliper... and let brake fluid drain out, till there is no bubbles, or air popping.... THEN try the caliper... Chase | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Ok, drain the reservoir through the line (not the bleeder. Then refill the reservoir and bleed again as usual? | ||
| Buellgekk |
One thing to keep in mind is that you never must hit the brake at his max when pumpin without presure, you could damage the master cylinder. Just do it with ease. And try to lean your bike straight up. If that still doesn't work, you can use a large injection needle thing and fill it with fluid. Then fill up the systeem from the breather nipple using a small hose. I've been in your situation, my problem was that I damaged the spring from the front master cylinder, so it never got pressured up. I was cursing and pumping for about 3 hours. Good luck. (Message edited by buellgekk on August 02, 2007) | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Reservoir won't drain. Removed the line from the caliper, it dripped a bit, now nothing. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
OK, i definitely pushed the master cylinder all the way... about 300 times. | ||
| Chasespeed |
mike, gimme a call.... i can explain better over the phone.... 757-406-3485 chase | ||
| Hillbilly |
If you keep getting air bubbles after that long then you are sucking in a small amount of air some were.The most likly place to look would be the 2 seals at each end of the brake line.The end or ends you had apart.They look like washers.They can leek just enough to suck in air when you pump them up and still not leak brake fluid.That would expain the 100% air bubbles.I did the same thing.I blead the system many times.Still had a soft brake and air bubbles.I replaced the seals(washers) and it was fixed.I then had 1 finger brakes like new. Good luck. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I thought I would hear a bit of seeping if it was sucking in air. The joint was TIGHT. | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
What about the washer? Is it in place correctly? One before fitting then one after. As for the master getting air, it could have a bad seal. Maybe a piece of dirt also not allowing it to seal proper. Did you flush it out? If I were closer (like down the street) I'd be over in a sec and we'd get it straightened out. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Did you use new crush washers on the banjo fitting (where the line bolts to the caliper)? They're brass, and (hence the name) they crush to seal. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Ok, Chase helped me a bit. But at this point I keep trying to think of a better ways. he hit on the fact that a pressure bleeder is the best way... So I came up with another Idea... My turkey baster got clamped onto the tube where the resivoir is supposed to clamp on. filled with fluid, the squeazed enough for fluid to stream out the bleeder screw. This should effectively bleed the entire system correct??? Like mastercylinder and all? Because I did that, and it worked like a charm... ie. steady flow for the entire turkey baister amount of fluid. Weird thing was, only 2 bubbles came out. It really looked like it should bleeding brakes. sealed it back up... still no pressure at all. did it 2 more times... fluid is completely bubble free.... yet no pressure. Is there a flaw in this plot too? Or is my master cylinder toast? | ||
| Buellgekk |
Yes maybe it's the master cylinder. By the way, did you use new brake fluid (dot5)? This was my damaged master cylinder:  | ||
| Mikef5000 |
It was new fluid when I started. Now it's been flushed through the system about 20 times. Looks like I'll be traveling rear-brakeless for the next 2 weeks. Now I'm ridiculously pissed off at myself for starting this whole project. I KNEW something would go wrong. But I decided to go ahead anyway. Well, at least I got the new Ventura rack system installed today. | ||
| Buellgekk |
I recommend to let it fixed by someone else. If your front brake fails.... especially if you ride with cargo.. you do the math. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Ehm.... well.... I work all day tomorrow... and leave at 5 AM the next day. Yeah, I know. I didn't want the brake sticking for this trip... but I'd rather have the damn thing sticking a bit rather than no brake at all! | ||
| Road_thing |
Mike: Once you're positive all the banjo bolts are tight, try this: Remove the caliper from the bike, leaving the line hooked up. Raise the caliper up so that the line runs uphill all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper, then bleed the caliper. This lets all the air bubbles come up to the bleeder. I had a wrestling match like yours with my S2 and came up with that scheme. Worked like a charm, too, once I put new crush washers on it... rt | ||
| Firemanjim |
I have had similar bouts with every motorcycle I have ever worked on it seems. I use a big syringe and force the fluid back through from the bleed screw,nothing else seems to work as well. I even bought one of those vacuum pumps that is supposed to suck the fluid back through--no dice. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I tried the forcing the fluid back. No luck. I've thrown in the towel. And am convinced it's the Master Cylinder. I've bled both the brakes on this bike less than 2 months ago with no problems. This many failed attempts tells me somethings wrong. Bike is now strapped down in the back of a van ready to leave in a bit over 24 hours. I hardly use the rear brake anyway. Almost entirely front brake, with the addition on engine braking when necessary. I feel like kicking myself in the balls though. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Alright. I'm thinking I might just overnight a master cylinder rebuild kit to our cabin outside Sturgis. I'd get it Monday and could install it Monday night. Then I'd just be out of a rear brake for a couple days, rather than a couple weeks. It looks to be a very simple job, but is there a writeup of it anywhere that you all know of? NEVERMIND! Searched the archives and found exactly what I needed: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/210113.html Thanks BadWeb! (Message edited by mikef5000 on August 02, 2007) (Message edited by mikef5000 on August 02, 2007) | ||
| Buellgekk |
Sorry to hear. But enjoy your holiday and drive extra safe. Don't overheat your brake if you go on downhill mountain riding. (Message edited by buellgekk on August 02, 2007) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I'm pretty sure our 2000 bikes need DOT4. either way, it should say on the cap. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Correct. The resevoir caps say DOT4, which is what I've been flushing through it. (Sorry didn't mention it above) | ||
| Chasespeed |
Mike, remember, time and patience... and you will win.... Chase | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
Got to thinking more about it. Maybe your cup has gotten stuck inside the master. I know it has a return spring but with all that pumping maybe debris has jammed it up. Well, you'll know as soon as you open it up to rebuild. Be safe enjoy your trip. | ||
| Smoke |
+1 on the caliper removal from the mount and putting it higher than the master cylinder. tried everything on the s1 after pad replacement only with no success. even traded out master cylinder and caliper. took 5 minutes with caliper sitting on the seat. you don't have to take the wheel off, only the caliper mount bolts and leave the mount still in place. you do need a flat piece of metal slightly thicker than the disc to put between the pads while bleeding or you will hav a mess. have fun at Sturgis and stay away from the crazies. tim | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Remove the caliper from the bike, leaving the line hooked up. Raise the caliper up so that the line runs uphill all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper, then bleed the caliper. This lets all the air bubbles come up to the bleeder." Try what Road-thing and Smoke are recommending. Years ago I changed a master cylinder for hydraulic clutch (auto) and ran into the same problem you're having. I had to take the slave cylinder off and raise it above the master to get the brake fluid started and the bubbles out. Try it before you give up. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I've already givin up. The bike is loaded and ready to roll. I have the part on order and it will be overnighted to the Campground. I'll get it installed and bled Monday. I'll just be out of a rear brake 2 day. I will have much more patiece out there I think. Last night I fought with installing the Ventura rack for a couple hours. (Because I tried to cut corners. Otherwise it would've been 1/2 an hour) Then I fought with the brake for hours on end. My patience had long run out by the time I posted on here. I really appriciate the help everyone. I'll pull and raise the caliper when I flush it after the master cylinder rebuild. Anybody know the dimensions of the crush washers? I'll run down to the auto parts store tonight after work and pick up a bunch of them. Oh yeah...  to American Sport Bike! Al's savin the day again! | ||
| Buellistic |
Gentlemen: If you'll would simply change the brake fluid in the mastercylinders this "BUELLschitte" would not happen !!! Brake fluid gets old just like everything else ... Just a simple change of each mastercylinder fluid once a year will replenish the fluid additives keeping the condensation out of the syatem ... Have 97K on my 97S3T and the only problem with my brakes is replacing pads when they wear out ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I can't help what the previous owner did, or did not do. |
