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Court
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 08:36 am: | 
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>>>>no one anywhere I've seen even acknowledged HDs role in giving Buell everything they've asked for, once they proved they could make a salable product?
Neither have I, please share that with us. |
Rainman
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 03:45 pm: |
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AMF did a lot of good for Harley. Under AMF's leadership, the Evolution engine was approved for design and development. With it ......
I really don't mind H-D being associated with Buell. Without H-D, Buell could not afford to have produced the XBs en masse, the Blast nor the 1125r. I like H-Ds and have owned them although I much prefer the Buell, Triumph and KTM bikes. I think it shows intelligence and dedication for H-D to let Buell go ahead and do something different. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 06:50 pm: |
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RR1000/RR1200 BattleTwin
RS1200/RSS1200 WestWind
S2/S3 Thunderbolt
S1/X1/XB Lightning
M2 Cyclone
XB Firebolt
P/Blast Thor
1125R Pegasus |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 08:25 pm: |
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Actually, Buell paid for this engine development. Of course, as a division of Harley-Davidson, Inc., HDI had to give them permission to do that. So, kudos to HDI. |
Ma1
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 09:35 pm: |
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Buell did not even break even until less than 2 years ago, when this project was well underway. Anon, you may have some inside status, but we both know for fact that Buells current profit margin (?) could'nt cover a fraction of the R&D money that Buell has spent over the last 10 years. Est gets their checks from HDI, as does BRP. BRP would not give Buell the time day unless HDI was looking over someones shoulder and nodding up and down.
Buell may have signed the checks, but most of that platform was paid for by the sale of Softails and FLTs.
This is not a negative thing BTW. HDI knows the future requires a diversification of product. And Buell has more than held up its end of the bargian with world class R&D.
But those who say that Buell has had to scratch, claw and beg, to describe them as HDs red headed stepchild, irritate me to no end.
(Message edited by ma1 on July 13, 2007) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:28 pm: |
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I grew up with both my parents owning (different) businesses. I have good friends owning businesses now. Buell got money from HDI, which has expectations and strings. If HDI had not been there, they would have gotten money from somebody else, with expectations and strings.
Kudos to HDI for knowing when not only to leave a good thing alone, but to leverage parts of it (that I am sure we don't see) to help other divisions.
But if HDI was not there, somebody else would have. If you think Buell had to claw scratch an beg money from HD, you should see what they would have to do from bankers or other investors.
I use this quote sometimes when talking about my faith... but it applies equally well here...
quote:I'm a fool for Jesus... Who's fool are you?
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Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 12:40 am: |
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That is an EXCELLENT quote.  |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 06:54 am: |
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quote:This is not a negative thing BTW.
It's neither negative, nor accurate. It's an opinion based on speculation and lack of information.
Everyone, according to the rules, is entitled to one.
There are lots of facts and well documented dynamics about how this came about.
Court |
Southern Marine
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 09:28 am: |
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Okay, I haven't posted in a while, but I had to say a few things about the new bike.
1. Can't wait to see it in person.
2. Scoops just don't help the look.
3. Name, hell name it Helicon.
4. Need a different color. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 09:43 am: |
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Good four points. . . but you left out two important ones.
1.) Hello friends.
2.) Semper Fi
Good to hear from you! |
Southern Marine
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
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Sorry folks, Semper Fi, and Hello to all.
Yes, I've been "extremely" busy with my new job. I FINALLY got a chance to ride the roads out here in Southeastern Oklahoma, and did I have fun. My wife saw the new bike before I did, a picture anyway. She called me and told me about it, looked it up online for me and relayed it to me over the phone. I really want to check it out. I think if I were to get it, I'd want it in a touring model.
She wants me to take my vacation next year for the Buell Homecoming. Gotta love a wife who wants that for you. She's been planning the trip already. We'll see how it goes. Ya'll take it easy. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 05:30 pm: |
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I look forward to meeting you there!
Homecoming is a great time, and next year is supposed to be even better since it will be the 25th. |
Ma1
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 07:09 pm: |
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Ah well, there's facts, there's money, there's production volume, there's loan garuntees, there's R&D budgets. If volume sales brings that next generation engine in house, we'll all be happy. |
S2pengy
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:45 pm: |
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When HD bought into Buell it wasn't just the Buell motorcycles or market they opened up it was Erik and his ideas.....
As they say that is priceless.. |
07xb12scg
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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You mean like the "Ninja", and "Fireblade"? "ohwell"
When's the last time you saw a "Fireblade" in the states? You probably haven't since they are called CBRs here. And the Japanese tack 'R' or 'RR' on to the back of tons of things. CBR1000RR, Skyline GT-R, Ninja ZX-6R, etc. See 1125R.
I'm a fool for Jesus... Who's fool are you?
That is a great quote. Too many people are fooled by Christianity... |
Arbalest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:37 pm: |
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Great qoute. You can be fool for Jesus, or a fool for Buddha, or a fool for Allah, but you're still a fool. One superstition is as valid as any other. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 10:17 pm: |
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The is much more Buell in a Harley-Davidson than you can possibly imagine. |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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I'm pretty sure that the Road Glide, everything in front of the gas cap, is straight from Mr. Buell's head. Very different, and much better, than the rest of the touring line IMHO. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:42 am: |
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Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 11:12 am: |
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I'm looking Mike,,,,I'm looking My memory doesn't work as well as in days (daze) past
I know he did a lot of work on the FXR chassis too, but I can't find that either So, maybe I dreamed it all up?
I have a hard copy article from one of the rags talking about Erik running a test session at the Alabama facility while getting all the chassis dynamics sorted out -- and I know I didn't dream that up,,,just can't find it. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 08:08 pm: |
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Wasn't Erik part of designing the HD rubber mount system? That is a tendril that runs through a lot of HDs now.
I'm sure Buell head design and internal mods have found their way into the HD engines as well.
I'm sure that there is more than just that, but it's just a start. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 07:56 am: |
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>>>>Wasn't Erik part of designing the HD rubber mount system?
Yes.
Don't look for parts, look for processes.
Buell has made a major contribution not so much to better individual parts but to better, and more consistent processes. Buell has raised the level of HD quality. Buells are the highest quality product made by Harley-Davidson and on the heels of being the best in the industry. |
Towjam
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:28 am: |
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Erik may have been a part of the design team for HD's rubber mounting but given the infamous rear-end "wallow" of the Dynas and Baggers, I don't think HD took all of his design suggestions to heart. |
Buell920
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:29 pm: |
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The "wallow" you mention is more with the stupid air ride and bias tire than design.
if you look at the set up on them they follow the FXR set up (Erik). also the rear rubber mounts that so many point to were ( the same part and # ) used on all Tube Buells for a long time.
P.S http://www.google.com/patents?id=tZ86AAAAEBAJ&prin tsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=Erik+Buell started out good on paper
http://www.google.com/patents?id=lEU5AAAAEBAJ&prin tsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=Erik+Buell unsprung weight back in the 70's .....A man ahead of his time still. |
Towjam
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:47 pm: |
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The "wallow" you mention is more with the stupid air ride and bias tire than design.
Nope. I'm referring to the wallow as a result of inadequate engine mounting system. I've experienced it first hand on both a bagger (FLTR) and Dyna (FXDL). It's not an issue on the softails, sporties or Buells.
It was so pronounced on my Road Glide that I had decided to purchase a 3rd party stabilizer but ended up trading in the bike first.
http://www.true-track.com |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 09:45 am: |
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Their web site totally sucks, rough to navigate. Anyway....
I noticed a little wallowing in the wind-buffet zone behind a semi truck this morning on the FLT I just got so I may look into this true-track thing over the winter. Thanks for the link. |
Towjam
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:17 am: |
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Thanks for the link.
I agree - True-Track's site is a shining example of how NOT to design an e-commerce site.
If you search the HD forums, you'll find some other alternatives to the True-Track system - although True-Track is probably the best known. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 01:35 pm: |
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I use this quote sometimes when talking about my faith... but it applies equally well here...
quote:
I'm a fool for Jesus... Who's fool are you?
Court sez:
Good four points. . . but you left out two important ones.
1.) Hello friends.
2.) Semper Fi
Uh, "Who's fool are you?"...the Marines?
But seriously folks:
Ma1 sez:
Buell did not even break even until less than 2 years ago, when this project was well underway.
And you speak of that as if it were a BAD thing? Shucks, as far as industrial business models go, getting into the black that quickly is great...relatively speaking! Just ask John Bloor, "the saviour of today's Triumph company." When Bloor took over Triumph, he did not plan to make a profit for 17 years! He is right on schedule. Throwing data out with out putting it into proper perspective can be very misleading.
jimidan |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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Good point Jimidan. HDI certainly saw the value in Buell and the potential return from BMC.
Buell has immense potential and the future is incredibly bright from where I'm standing. |
Dirt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
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This is a hijack of the original post and I'll undoubtedly get beat up for saying what I have to say, but it reflects what I have experienced thus far in my Buell ownership.
Court Posted Buells are the highest quality product made by Harley-Davidson and on the heels of being the best in the industry.
I can only assume that this statement is based exclusively on access to company data and not just a championing of the brand. I own a 2004 Harley that is approaching 80k miles and the only problem I’ve experienced so far is a fried stator at 34k. On the other hand, in only 6 months of ownership with my Buell I have experienced:
- brake/horn/interactive exhaust (10 amp) fuse has blown 3 times
- windscreen flew off at speed
- headlight would turn off when I engaged the clutch and the starter would constantly try to spin up while I was riding it
- rear wheel bearing failed at 11.5k miles
Some on this board will say these are minor problems and that no bike is perfect. I might agree with them except that due to the poor quality of the dealership in my area, it takes a great deal of inconvenience and time to have these problems addressed and corrected. Even the smallest of problems seem to require me leaving the bike at the dealership for 2-3 weeks. When the stator died on my Harley, I dropped it off on a Saturday afternoon and it was ready for pickup on Monday evening. The local Buell dealer where I tried to get my bike fixed, would not even order parts for warranty work unless I left the bike at the shop. Service manager claimed he couldn’t chance me not coming back to get the work done and then he would be stuck with the parts. Also made sure to tell me they were an “independent” Buell dealership and they did things their way, regardless. Buell CS told me that that my dealer was correct and asked me to find another dealer if I did not like their policy. Great, now instead of 30 miles I have to travel 50+ miles to the next closest dealer. Not exactly the answer I was looking for, but ok, maybe I was being unreasonable.
Getting back to my original point, I thought that when I bought the Buell that it would be a reliable machine. I commute a fair distance back and forth to work and reliability was one of my main requirements for a bike. My Harley has been rock solid so I never had any reservations purchasing the Buell. Unfortunately, the Buell has not been anywhere near as reliable as my Harley. |
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