| Author | Message | ||
     Dynasport |
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am hoping you folks can share some of your wisdom with me. I have a 20 year old son who is wanting to buy his first bike. It won't be right away as he has yet to take the MSF course, but he has the bug bad. I ride a Harley and while I have read a good bit about all motorcycles as they are a love of mine, I don't have any sportbike experience first hand. My son really likes the looks of the Firebolt, but the riding position seems a bit extreme to me (maybe because my reference is a cruiser). It just does not look like a comfortable bike to me at all. I have pointed him more toward the Lightening, but he prefers the looks of the Firebolt. He is also looking at the CBR600. I learned on much tamer bikes (I had a piece of crap Honda CX500 as my first street bike after going through several dirt bikes). Since that is my background and experience I have been recommending he look into a used Japanese standard to learn on. He is not too receptive to this, though. Am I being stupid here? Is the Firebolt (or the CBR600 for that matter) a suitable first bike for a 20 year old? And won't the insurance break him? Any wisdom you guys can share will be greatly appreciated. Dan | ||
| 4cammer |
600cc sportbike a good 1st bike? To be blunt, not if you love your son. Would you have given him a Dodge Viper for a 1st car? Get a used Ninja 250R or 500R (1-3 year old ones are everywhere...), thrash it for a year and then maybe move to a more sporting bike if he enjoys the sport. These are inexpensive well built bikes that have been around for a long time. I loved my 250R. Just my opinion. | ||
| Dynasport |
I knew that Viper was a bad idea! You are in agreement with me. I tried to push him in the 250R direction, but he doesn't like the looks and thinks it won't keep him satisfied. I'll keep working on him. What about the Buell? Maybe a used XB9? Or are they a bad idea as well? Thanks, Dan | ||
| Buelltroll |
Thats retarded. Xb9r was the first bike I ever owned(RODE plenty before I owned one). Unless your son is retarded and holds it W.F.O. and dumps the clutch,He'll be fine (And who can blame him about the fugly 250 not to mention its like 50 mph top speed). (Message edited by buelltroll on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Metalstorm |
I'm leaning toward the 250cc-500cc as well but with that said.. The XB9 (preferably the S due to sitting more upright) isn't so bad to learn on because of it's linear power delivery. There's no real sudden burst of crazy speed like the inline fours once you rev them to the moon. The XBs are much more predictable & rideable in street scenarios in my opinion. I would choose the XB9 over any 600cc sportbike for a first bike if it were my son. Though I would be trying to sell him on the EX(Ninja)500 really hard  | ||
| Permagrin |
My xb9r is my first bike. If he takes the coarse and you know your son can respect the throttle than by all means get him a 9r. Now I have ridden the new cbr600rr and the thing screams. Would waste my 9r in just about anything. So not to put our bikes down exspecially those of us on 9's but I'd lean this way over that anyday. | ||
| L_je |
A 600cc I4? No way. Do not let him go that route. A 12R might not be so bad. Torque is entertaining. Horsepower is scary. I think a used 9R would be a good idea. A 650 Ninja might also be a thought. I like the Buells over the other bikes because wrenching on your own bike gives you a sense of ownership that you might not get from the I4 du jour. Plus, if he's on a Buell, then he has a built in excuse not to be as fast as the I4s, and hopefully won't even try. Our daughter is eight, and has about 10,000 miles on the back of a bike. We asked her if she wants a motorcycle when she grows up. She told us she wants a minivan...please remind me of this story in eight years time. | ||
| Tkxb9sx |
get him a cityx. its my first bike and i love it. its not too fast but not too dinky. i got the xb9sx because i didnt want to get an underpowered bike and want to sell it in a couple of months for something more. i wanted to get something that looked awesome and ride the same way. if he has a head on his shoulders he should get the xb9sx. i am 20 and the insurance on the bike is not bad at all and i have full coverage. | ||
| Xbullet |
i got the xb9sx because i didnt want to get an underpowered bike and want to sell it in a couple of months for something more. +1 get him a cityx. -1 make the little bastard buy his own. (which it sounds like you are already doing.) that being said, gotta agree with the 9R crowd. ONE MORE THING ------- this is very important. Buell riders gravitate to other buell riders and tend to educate the younger bucks and keep them in line best they can. Buellers typically think it's cool to have good gear and ride safe, even if you ride hard. you don't get that with the IL-4 riders. if he's spendin' his own money, i'd recommend pushin' his towards the Buell. if you are buying, get him Ninja 250 until he decides to man up and buy it himself. i'm 26, and that's my .02 | ||
| Jimmys |
My first bike was a 12R, but I was a bit older when I bought it (35). Its all in the brain controlling the right wrist action. Similar situation when I bought my first car at 17. 69 mustang, that within a year I had built up to put out 500Hp on Nitrous. Parents were none the wiser to its power, but the statement of "first time you screw up in that car is the last time..." kept me in line. Jimmy | ||
| Tm74 |
I have a different take on it but I've been riding for 17 years so I've went through many changes. I give the nod the 250. If he's willing to listen to why you want him to start out on a 250R(or even 500R) you might mention this. It's a good beginner bike for many of the obvious reasons but it's also a bike that may give him a good idea of what type of riding he may want to do. The 250R has more of an upright seating position and full fairing. It's not the greatest at any one thing but it can do multiple things relatively well. It can sport tour(it can do a ton and people do sport tour with them), canyon carve, back road blast, and it even makes for a good around the town bike. Overall it's really a well rounded motorcycle. It just has a smaller engine, which is good for a beginner. I think it would give him a better idea of where he wants to go with his riding compared to the Firebolt. The biggest problem is he's 20 and the 250R ain't sexy. As others have said, all is not lost if he goes with a 9. The 9's engine is a real pussycat compared to any of the other manufacturer's engines of the same displacement. It really is multitudes slower in comparison, if not considered slow. It's "barrel of monkeys" fun but I still wouldn't suggest it as a first bike. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
What kind of riding experience does your son have? It seems he has no street riding experience, but was he brought up on dirt bikes? | ||
| Manimal |
I was in the same situation as your son is. And trust me my parents were none too happy with me when i bought my Firebolt. I bought my 03 Firebolt when i was 22. I'm 24 now and it was my first bike with barely any sportbike experience at all. I would have to say that It has been a good learning bike but it has a lot more power than i had thought before purchasing it. I do have to say one good thing about the firebolt is that its harder to pull wheelies and stunts on because its belt driven and not chain driven like a CBR600. I would definetly look for something in the 500-600 cc range. If he can do well with that you can always get a bigger bike. I would have to say the biggest thing is that your son doesnt drive wrecklessly with which ever bike he chooses. Its very easy to do and in a matter of seconds he could be looking up at the sky thinking what happened.(I know, I've been there) So that my 2 cents. Good luck | ||
| Beachbuell |
Even for "experienced" riders a Firebolt is a different animal compared to anything else out there. These XB's have a lot of low end power that can get even the most "experienced" riders in a world of trouble. I would recommend maybe a de-tuned 600cc inline 4 to start off with. I wouldn't recommend a new bike for a beginner. You can pick up older, used CBR's for a great price. | ||
| Jumpinjewels |
My first sport bike was a Suzuki SV650 and it was a blast. Had enough power and was great in the twisties. It's a bike your son could use for several years before upping to the 12R. It's also nice looking. Good Luck. | ||
| River |
Hi Dan I ride an XB12R. If your young fella had a few years experience I'd say it's the perfect bike. But would I want one of my boys (when they get to bike riding age) on a Firebolt straight off? To be honest, no. There's a lot of truth in that old saying that when you get your first bike it's not 'if you fall off', it's 'when you fall off'. I'd rather my boys went sliding down a dirt track/beach/trail when they stuff up, rather than down a concrete highway at 200kph so I'll start them on dirt bikes which is how I learnt. But if he's dead keen on a road bike, what about you give him your old Harley and you come across to the Buell side? | ||
| Tranvk |
If he takes the MSF course, he will be fine. At the HD dealer here, people would take the course on Honda Rebels and go straight to the big twins they purchased. If you are paying for the bike, get him an SV650 or something like that. There are plenty out there for about $3K. If he is paying for it, I think you should let him get the Firebolt. I was your son's age when I "borrowed" my brother's Honda CB900F SS, then paid $350 for a 750F SS. Glad to see your son shares your passion! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I know what I was like at 20. Were I my own parent, there is no way I would allow myself to have a Firebolt with no street experience. A sport bike is just that. Unless your son is George Burns trapped in a 20 year old body, he will act and do what 20 year olds do. Mortality hasn't become an ingrained concept at 20. I would strike a deal. A smaller displacement for the first bike for one year and 10,000 miles. A Buell in one year. There is no substitute for experience and miles. The greater the performance capabilities of the bike, the steeper the learning curve and the smaller the margin of error. Allow him time to accumulate experience "points" with the greatest margin of error. Time is your friend in this. The penalty for rushing time and experience may be your son's life. I would look for a smaller displacement bike. I hate to say it, but some of the best bikes to learn on are dual sports. A KLR 650 or XR650L would be a fantastic bike to learn on. They are cheap to buy, cheap to maintain. Plus when the year is up, he can keep it for "dirt duty". Offer to buy the first bike and proper gear if he will go with the "learner". Then offer to pay a quarter or half of the 2nd tier bike. | ||
| Midknyte |
I tried to push him in the 250R direction, but he doesn't like the looks and thinks it won't keep him satisfied. I'll keep working on him. Find & check out a Hyosung dealer. They've got a sharp looking two-fiddy. Comes naked or full faired. Seating position is pretty extreme though and it's tall in the saddle... Depends how tall your boy is. I would not reccommend or even suggest a Firebolt as a first bike. I'll probably be picking up a Blast as a first bike for my boys, though that's mostly for reliability and parts availability. I've got my eyes on a couple of other, smaller bikes, but a bike's no fun if you can't keep it goin... | ||
| Xl1200r |
A firebolt as a first bike isn't a good idea as far as I'm concerned. I learned on a Suzuki 125cc 4-stroke dirtbike when I was a teenager, and stopped riding when I was about 15. The next time I rode a motorcycle I was 20 years old and it was on my brand new 1200 Sportster. For about a month, that was too much bike for me. After a year of riding on the street, I test rode a Firebolt and almost killed myself. Not because of the power, the seating position, or anything else you can see on paper. The bike is just 'different' - after all, that's their claim to fame. The handling took my totally by suprise and I did a ton of weaving in the first couple turns as it rode like nothing I had ridden before. 4 years later I bought one and I love it. But, riding that relatively slow Sportster really allowed me to appreciate the Buell. Maybe it's because the Firebolt was the first sportbike I ever rode, but I don't think it's something that a beginner should be playing with. Keep him away from the IL4s. We don't need anymore statistics. +1 on "he's 20 and will do what 20-year-olds do". Not to toot my own horn, but I'm probalby the most respinsible 24-year-old I know, and I've been that way for a long time. But I still do a lot of stupid crap on my bike and in my car. Let's face it, you don't get into motorcycles to keep your heart rate low and take it slow and eay, especially when you're 20. Personally, I like the smaller, slower bike idea as a first one. If I were to do it again, I would go that route rather than spending as much as I did on a bike that tuned out to not really fit my riding style. A Ninja 250 is a little on the small side, even for me. I've never ridden a 500, but I LOVE the 650, which is also a great looking machine with some neat engineering going on. I've been seeing a lot of more of them lately. I like the "make a deal" proposition. Get him on something a little saner for a year and then let him move up. | ||
| Xb12randy |
NO WAY for a firebolt as a first bike. Be smart and get a learner. As said above a 20 year old is going to do what other 20 year olds do. Why do you think he's looking at a Honda 600??? Because he see's all the other monkeys riding wheelies anywhere and everywhere. The best suggestion I've seen so far is the Suzuki 650 sv. They handle great, stop on a dime, can be tweaked to look really cool and are plenty fast enough for a first timer without the stigma of riding a Ninja 250 or even the 500 both of which are so wheezy he's be pissed at you for a while LOL. At least the SV has a V-twin and thumps along nicely. My first bike which I bought myself was a Honda Hawk 650. I still wish I never sold that bike. It was plenty fast for my limited (rode dirt bikes for a few years first) street expierence (21 years old). Under no circumstances if you love your son should you turn him loose on a 600r, or firebolt of any size or even any Buell for that matter. The torque alone on any buell, 9 or 12 will have him on the back wheel on the first day he's riding , mark my words. (Message edited by xb12randy on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Frequency |
Great first bikes for the sport bike crowd SV650 Late 90s 600cc(carbed) suzuki has a decent 500 Ninja 250 - buelltroll top speed of 50 have you ridden one? I'm 250 and i test rode one for my g/f and it had plenty of get up and go granted it doesn't have the same power has a 600cc supersport its still a decent bike to learn on for a few thousand miles) Now my first bike was a 81 yamaha cruiser 400cc v-twin with a whole 25ish HP put about 6000 miles on it then i picked up an cityX Firebolt = bad xb9 = ok bikes listed above = good (Message edited by frequency on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Bigdaddy |
There's so many variables when this discussion comes up -- it seems to pop up about 3 or 4 times per year. My daughter learned on a Blast and it was perfect for her. She's a little bitty thing with a very strong addiction to going fast and the Blast was a perfect fit for her situation. She's moved on, not necessarily up, to faster things (she's a LEO now,,,so she doesn't worry about getting tagged like the rest of us.) My son who's very level-headed and especially mature for his age (that applied when he was 16 too) started on another Blast, but it was just too small for him. We kicked him to a M2. Both of them spent years on the pillion and I'm convinced that that makes a huge difference in the learning curve too. I think the bottom line is,,,,,uh,,,,there isn't one,,,individuals differ greatly. | ||
| Macbuell |
I agree with what most people are saying in the a Firebolt is too much for a young, new rider. It isn't really that it is too much power, it's more that he won't have the skills and the experience to handle the power and navigate unexpected obstacles and therefore could get himself into trouble and not know how to get out of it safely. The SV 650 as some have mentioned is a good first bike. I'd also take a look at the new Kawasaki EX650R. It has gotten some good reviews. If he wants something a little more unique with some cool styling, I think the Ducati Monster 600 would be a nice 1st bike. | ||
| Adrenaline0210 |
Im 21 and my first bike was a zzr600. Great bike but a little heavy. watch out for all the Inline 4's because they are a rocket once past 8k rpm's. The buells are a blast but they can get you in trouble. Their tourque for a new rider is a bit much when coming out of a corner on hard ecceleration the front end tends to dance and can give pretty bad tankslap. For a new rider that means eating Sh*t. Do yourself and him a favor and get him a nice leather jacket, gloves and a nice helmet. My father rides harley too and before i stepped foot on my zzr when i was 17 i had to fork out 500$ for the gear. And like he stated because i really wanted the zx6-r he said u have enough for the zx but not enough for the gear. He didnt want me on the zx anyways. But in short I would recomend the following 1) suzuki gs500. Has the looks of the gsxr but has a 500 motor which in my opinion is plenty to learn on. 2)sv650 - best bike in my opinion for beginner. v-twin so very predictable power, light weight and not stupid amount of power that will get him hurt liek a 600 inline will. 3) zzr600 or the fz-6. Both of these are detuned inline 4's but have a much lower amount of power than the race bikes. 4) any of the xb's. The 12s really dont produce a different feel than the 9;s. The 9's in my opinion feel like they rev quicker. I rode dirtbikes of all kinds growing up and the xb9s that i have still scares me from time to time. Ill be next to my father on his heritage softail deluxe 1540 and he punches his and i open mine up in 2nd and weelie 12 oclock past him like hes standing still it kinda gives u the idea on what kind of power the xbs produce and all. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Frequency has a pretty good list there. In no way is a 100 hp bike good for a beginner, and all of the current 600s (and even the last few years) are in that category. The SV650 or SV650S, the Ninja 650, 500, or 250, or even the Hyosung 650, or 250 are good choices for someone that wants a sport bike but lacks riding experience. They can all be retrofit with full fairings if desired, or come with them from the factory. None of these bikes are going to completely overwhelm a new rider, unlike the torque happy XB or the high hp IL4s. There is a caveat though. It has to do with the individual and his level of self control. If he has the self control the XB9R may be ideal for him. If not it will get him in way over his head in a hurry. That's a call that you have to make being his Dad. Just be completely honest with yourself and with him. Remember that the first bike WILL be dropped, usually more than once so a used bike is usually a better idea. Also please insist that he wears proper gear when he rides. I know that people get tired of me writing about this, but I am on a mission. I know for a fact that a good set of gear can save your life. It saved mine. It is NEVER too hot. that's my $1.23 | ||
| Lazylion |
I don't own any type of sportbike at the moment, but when I returned to riding 4 years ago I bought an EX250R (Ninja250) and it would haul my 220 pound butt up to 100 mph whenever I felt the urge, which wasn't often. I could cruise at 80 as long as I wanted with ease. But I agree, there is a good chance it will not excite him for very long, if he could get past the mid 80's styling to start with. I would vote for the SV650 route for a couple of reasons. They can be had fairly cheap. There are a number of available mods out there for them. They can be street fighter lean, full race dressed or somewhere in between. The power delivery is much smoother than the in line bikes, as has been noted, and lower in torque that the larger v-twins. If he enjoys the sport he can retain the SV when he moves on and have an excellent track bike to really refine his riding skills on. I would think that one of the important features that make a good track bike is large parts availability at fairly low cost. Another is smooth, linear, predictable performance rather than raw, wild power. The SV bikes are high on many people's lists as a track bike for these reasons. I see you are in Florida. There are at least 4 different tracks in state that have track days. Up here in New York I would have to go down to Pocono or out the NHIS for a track day. I live maybe 40 miles from Watkins Glen and that place would rock for track days, but there are safety barrier concerns.  | ||
| Prof_stack |
The smaller the better, imho. Let him do all the maintenance and pay for the insurance. Proper gear, all the time. With proper training he will be fine and, like most of us, will go down at some time, possibly through no fault of his own. Good luck, dad. My son, 21, has no interest in motorcycling. | ||
| Strato9r |
First, have him take the MSF course. Then, go out and score some old Honda 450 or Yamaha XS400 or 650, Kawi 400 twin, and learn to ride that bike without fear of messing up something pretty if/when it gets dropped or dumped. Yeah, "cool" types will laugh, but worrying about messing up a shiny new (or nearly new) bike is one of the surest ways there is to seeing it laying down leaking vital fluids all over the road. I wish more young riders started out with more modest machinery; it would make for a few more riders who survived long enough to appreciate more advanced bikes. He could score a Blast, as they are selling for peanuts on Ebay, and after he's done with it, turn around and sell it, as there seems to be a lot of guys using those motors for little bar-hopper type choppers. | ||
| Jlnance |
Dynasport - Yes, the firebolt seating position is extreme, but for a 20 year old with young joints, it's fine. As a first bike, I don't think it's a good choice. It's not an awful choice, but there are much better starter bikes out there. I agree with your thoughts that an old UJM would be better. The Buell equivalent is the Blast, which I learned on, and still own in addition to a larger bike. Most peoples objection to starter bikes is "I don't want to get something I'm going to outgrow in a few months." It's an understandable viewpoint for someone lusting after a new bike, but perhaps short sighted. Here is a way you might work around the issue. Buy yourself a used Blast (or whatever you think is appropriate.) Tell him he can use it while he saves money for the Firebolt, or if you were planning on buying him a bike, tell him you'll do it after he puts so many miles on your bike. When he gets the Firebolt, sell the bike. Even if he only rides your bike for a couple months, thats a lot more experience than he would have otherwise. Here is one in Flordia: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buell-Blast-Buell-B last-2003-Buell-Blast-Harley-Davidson_W0QQcmdZView ItemQQcategoryZ49982QQihZ009QQitemZ190135637016QQr dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW |
