| Author | Message | ||
     Dick8008 |
Will ABS be available as an option? | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Erik talked about this during his seminar at Homecoming. In a nutshell he said that Buells don't have ABS because it costs too much. The people who manufacture the ABS systems charge way too much for them. It isn't an additional cost on a car, why should it be on a motorcycle? I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it. He was pretty passionate about the fact that he believes ABS should come with the bike if it's offered. It shouldn't cost $1000.00. | ||
| Court |
Erik cited (listening to the recording) two concerns. 1) Cost - at present no one questions a spare $1,000 on the price of a car. There no competitive pressure for vendors to make bike specific components or price competatively. 2) The systems still need sorted out with regard to bikes. By the way (Personal Opinion) I'd love to see an ABS system designed by one of the young Buell engineers (  Dane) with a free hand to make it the best it can be. Court | ||
| José_quiñones |
The new HD system looks pretty slick, a $795 option on Touring and VRSC models. http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2 008_Motorcycles/ABS.jsp | ||
| Dick8008 |
I'd expect to pay extra for it. If there are bikes out there that include it with the standard MRSP then I honestly can't remember ever seeing it. I've "tested" the ABS brakes on a BMW bike. I can't believe I spiked the brakes going 60, chirped both front and back tires and came to a complete stop in a totally controlled stop. It would be worth the money to know you have something you hope to never use. $1000 is a reasonable price to ask. I also believe my buddy that has it on his bike gets a discount on insurance also. Not that the discount is that much, but anything is good. | ||
| Dick8008 |
I'm a nascar nut and I remember one of the drivers saying once at a short track that the key to winning "isn't how fast you go, it's how fast you slow". | ||
| Stinky_finger |
I don't understand why HD only sells the ABS option on the higher end bikes. This should be a no-brainer to add it to the rest of the line (including Buell). I paid $1000 extra to get ABS on my 2007 Suzuki SV650. It payed off when it saved my butt the other day. Zero Torsional Load brakes with abs would make a winning combo. | ||
| Diablobrian |
The "Go" is useless without the "Whoa"! | ||
| Jimidan |
I have ABS brakes built in to my right hand and foot. It works every time in rain or shine. I also have traction control in that same hand (and with over 100 ft/lbs of torque @ 3000 rpm, I need it), and it cost me nothing but practice time. | ||
| Stinky_finger |
I was wondering when this type of response would come from the anti-abs crowd. I have over 20 years of riding experience and still want the option of ABS. | ||
| Jimidan |
I wouldn't want to keep you waiting! When you get 40 years in, you may change your mind!  But seriously, I am not anti ABS, as I know that some folks could benefit from their bikes having it. I have ridden BMW's with it and I just don't feel the need for it on my bikes...it is just a matter of preference. (Message edited by jimidan on July 25, 2007) | ||
| Sicbird |
I personally feel no need for ABS, and hope it doesn't ever become a standard feature because it would increase base cost. Neither of my cages have ABS, and I have no desire for it on any vehicle I own. From a business stand point, options are where many companies make their money and ABS would be a good option for those who want it! | ||
| Djkaplan |
A friend of paint_shakers was giving braking demonstrations of his ABS equipped Beemer at MB4. It was pretty interesting because it was on the loose gravel dirt road at the TWO campground. It would have been great to see if anyone could have bettered the distances on an identical non-ABS BMW. | ||
| Froggy |
Its like anything else, it takes time to trickle down. Work out the kinks, improve it, make the system more compact and lighter, make it cost less, then it will end up on the cheaper bikes. I would love to have ABS on my Ulysses | ||
| Chadhargis |
I have had bikes with ABS, and there are good and bad points. The bad: 1) Teaches you the bad habit of "grabbing" the brake versus modulating it. 2) On bumpy roads, it can activate thereby scareing the crap out of you when you basically lose your brakes 3) On gravel or loose pavement, it can actually lenghten your stopping distances. This is why BMW puts an "ABS" button on the GS so it can be turned off. 4) It weighs more 5) It costs more 6) It is more complicated to bleed (depending on the system - 1 vs 2 circuit) 7) It can malfunction The pros are: 1) It can absolutely save your life...no argument about that. Does the bad outweigh the good? That's a judgement call. I teach MSF classes, and safety equipment is always a tough sell. I tell my students to buy their gear first, then whatever they have left over, put it toward the bike. I'm sure most don't listen, and I see FAR too many people riding around with t-shirts, tennis shoes, shorts or jeans, and a $600 race replica helmet. Safety simply doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. To some, safety means riding a cruiser versus a sportbike. To others, it means buying the best gear you can, sharpening your skills, and getting every advantage you can get...which could include ABS. | ||
| Court |
>>>>It would have been great to see if anyone could have bettered the distances on an identical non-ABS BMW. No way. | ||
| Djkaplan |
It was an impressive demonstration to say the least, but I'd have tried it. It would have been like a race, but the exact opposite. | ||
| Jackbequick |
ABS with a user controlled on/off switch sounds logical to me. Especially if keeps your anus from chewing holes in the seat when you're riding in the rain. But wait. Maybe it would be worse in the rain with ABS. You're using 50 years of feel and experience, braking as hard as you dare, rapidly closing in on a string of backed up cars, and the ABS decides to back off. That's not going to help the seat cover, is it? Might even be worse. Jack | ||
| Dick8008 |
Is anonymous skipping this post cuz they know it's needed/wanted or cuz they just have no answer? | ||
| Chadhargis |
Maybe they don't talk about future products. | ||
| Court |
>>>just have no answer? Very busy 9 weeks ahead | ||
| Dick8008 |
I bet it's busy for them. This bike is all the buzz on other boards. I've even read of ducati owners putting down payments on this thing. Who would have ever thought Buell would take H-D to the next level? | ||
| Clutchless |
Ive seen and had a chance to try out the new abs system on the 2008 h-d's. They dont "back off" like you would think. I ran a ultra-classic into a steeeeeep trail-brake and pounded the guts outta the brakes just to see what would happen and it pushes the brakes as far as they possibley can go. The system weighs about 20lbs. total and really I dont see that abs pump hanging off a buell anytime soon. I mean....what good is a handful of brakes if your gonna let a computer have all the fun? | ||
| Jackbequick |
Thanks for the report, sounds interesting. But a 20 pound "system"? Sounds like too much stuff to me... I like simple, I guess I don't need ABS. Jack | ||
| Vagelis46 |
ABS?? NO WAY | ||
| Bob_thompson |
It seems as though we may be getting away from much of the driver/rider input needed into our vehicles. I do not particularly care for the baby buggy ride of the luxury cars and bikes as it takes me away from the road feel I like to have for the best control but only when trying to drive/ride at a brisk pace. I do however like that for cruising on a long drive. Maybe anti-locks, air suspension and air conditioning should be kept for those vehicles and give us a firm, responsive secure feel for our SPORT bikes in steering, braking and cornering. I believe the 1125R has done that. Just my take. Bob | ||
| Ratbuell |
I agree with keeping it an option. I like riding the ABS baggers thru the lot and hammering the brakes, just to see how it works out and to feel that "bungeed to a tree" sensation. In an actual emergency situation though? I'd rather be in charge I think. The other thing about bike ABS versus cage ABS is - and even HD's product DVDs that come with the ABS bikes state this - on a bike, it only works in a straight line, when the bike is upright. Not turning. Not leaned over. Not the same as the "brake-and-steer" in a cage. I think we're going to see a lot of folks making that mistake and wondering why they flattened their new bike despite having the "all-saving" ABS. Assistance, yes. Bend-the-laws-of-physics? No. On/off switch? Too much liability exposure. "I turned off my ABS and had an accident - if you didn't let me turn it off, I wouldn't be hurt now". Can't prove or disprove, but who do you think is gonna lose that one? The only time I think a disable is in order is when a motorman switches to Pursuit mode on a bagger. They are trained to slide or drop on purpose (the magic word here being "TRAINED"), to use the bike as a shield, and to steer with the throttle just like in a rear drive cruiser. I've worked with a lot of motor patrol officers and they all like the system...but wish they could disable it when needed. They also hate that you can't strap a sidecar to an ABS bike. Lastly, the "high end" side of the debate. HD had to switch to Brembo brakes for the system. VRSC models have had Brembos since '06, so that was a natural choice. Bagger patrol bikes have had ABS (1st generation) available since '06. Natural progression to install the second generation system on baggers (with family-wide Brembo changeover, ABS or not) and on the VRSCs. I don't think it had a thing to do with "high end" or "low end", just logic. Will it sell? Seems to, so far. Is the system slick? Seems to be, but I plan on a 3 day FLHTCU demo later this month to really find out. To bring the discussion back on line...do we need it on a Buell? Probably don't *need* it. But it would make a logical option on the Uly, at least in my opinion. The pump block would have to be downsized to fit and reworked to function with the radically different brakes on the Buell, but I think it'd sell. The ECM would also have to be redesigned, as the ABS system (like the new cruise control) operates through code in the ECM, not a standalone like Gen 1. | ||
| Jaimec |
ABS Yes. Linked brakes? HELL no! That's the way I look at it anyway. I just did 20 miles of wet dirt and gravel on a fully loaded K1200LT WITH passenger (mumble mumble Garmin fastest route mumble). Thank GOD I was able to modulate the front and rear brakes separately! I have an early model K1200LT... the later models all came with that OBNOXIOUS linked, power-assisted braking system. One of the reasons I bought the K1200LT when I did is because the only other option (The GoldWing) had linked brakes. Now Victory is making the mistake of making linked brakes STANDARD on their Vision touring bike, but NO ABS! I wonder exactly HOW they did their development research?? | ||
| Coal400 |
I'm not trying to be insulting to those who advocate ABS on cycles, but I think that some of the manufacturers are trying to build for the "lowest common denominator". Perhaps this makes the bike more insurable, or competitive in certain markets? You see it in everything these days. I must disclose that I have never ridden a cycle with ABS. FWIW: I, personally, would put more value into gear and the honing of my riding skills. It does not bother me that the 1125R does not come equipped with ABS. There has been enough engineering in the rest of the bike to, in my opinion, compensate for the lack of ABS. I do see the point: For some its piece of mind that makes ABS worth every cent. |
