| Author | Message | ||
     Curtyd |
Let's be real. The Buell enthusiasts Web site is frequently visited by the cadre of Anti Buells. They are always there to pile on when they can, including those above threatening to go 'tell the teacher' that a Buell employee is being bad. Just take your lumps or go play somewhere else. At this rate it may require a valid VIN number to post. It is Blake's party, GOD knows I ran into the WALL in the political threads. What is laughable is the only folks who have actually seen the bikes run are the Anons, face it, everything else ANYONE writes is just pure smoke up your you know what! The Buell folks are very excited, everyone else is just party poopers who are just GUESSING and running their mouths, WOW, some nothing life they must have! | ||
| M1combat |
"There are a lot of things that could have contributed to that and none have any thing to do with the bike." What other things are there that don't have anything to do with the bike? Riders? We know it was the same rider. Track? Yeah... same track too. Weather? Doesn't make too much of a difference. Track temp? That can make a little bit of a difference. But I know Pup's M.O. He said that because he suspects the rider's ethics. So far we haven't had any reason to suspect that and where I come from you're innocent until proven guilty. Keep reading Jimi. I read that statement once in this thread and didn't think twice about it. It was just "more of the pup". You quoted it and I just skimmed over it and saw that and one more thing that smacks of someone who is ALWAYS looking towards Buell with an axe to grind. It gets old. As I said earlier... I'm all for backing up information. For only speaking truths. For being able to admit when you're wrong etc... For those of you who are new here... Sorry for the "bad" thread. Puppy does his best to turn threads negative (and does a decent job to be honest) wherever he can. He's a character for sure. Also... regarding the Anony post... I think it's OK for me to rip into Pup (and vice versa) but I think that Anony should always stay out of that sort of engagement. There seems to be ONE anony that doesn't always reply that way but when people get that persons feathers ruffled he/she does. Seems to happen about once a year.} | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Curtyd... Under most circumstances I might agree with you.However, the issue here has ramifications a bit greater than just your standard web BS. Consider a couple of things: -- the objectivity of the Anon. person/persons. My take? Zero objectivity. Yet, given that it comes from Buell; "It must be true." -- the accountability of the Anon. person/persons. My take? It's called "plausible deniability" and is a favored ploy of governments, business, and precocious siblings. But it can also seriously backfire on the user, e.g., guilt by association. OK, "Let's get real." Pared to its essence, what we have is a person or persons of authority releasing information with zero accountability, AND somewhat rudely insulting posters from behind their cloak of invisibility. On that last one, Blake is always at the ready to lower the hammer on someone who acts unfavorably on this board.Are the Anon. posters exempt from that? Think a bit about manipulation and how it might be applied here. Then also consider a somewhat relevant story that's been making the biz pages lately. Factor THAT in and things are going to "get real" quickly. We forget at times with whom we're dealing. A bunch of "Buell Enthusiasts?" Sure, at this end. The other end, however, is a massive corporation guided in its every step by (now here's a real cadre!)lawyers. The intent is to sell motorcycles. Period. It is not to generate warm and fuzzies (unless it sells motorcycles), or be called on to serve as a godparent to a Buell owner's child (unless it sells motorcycles). Once that salient fact is forgotten by the consumer, marketing orders up pizza and starts a round of high-fives and fist-butts. Does that mean that Buell is devoid of "enthusiasts?" Not at all, the company is top-heavy... that's a good thing... with motorcycle nuts. Most that I have met I genuinely like, and certainly respect. Erik will talk motorcycles till the sun comes up and you're searching for a way to escape. But, BMC is a business. And, as such, it will use every single arrow in its quiver to sell a motorcycle. And if that means anonymously posting information that endears and enlightens, while occasionally slam-dunking a dissenter... so be it. For me, were these Anons. to post with their real names, I'd be the first to applaud their presence. And, if they insult while using their real name, that's their web-given right. The way it now stands, not only do they not have the right, but they also lack the credibility. BTW, I'd be one of the very last to enlist in the "Anti-Buell Cadre." | ||
| Dbird29 |
Free the Anons! Let them all be called Loretta from now on. | ||
| M1combat |
LOL  | ||
| Curtyd |
'Huh??' Buell built what may be a nice bike, none of us knows anything until we ride it. Trash talkers come and guess what? They talk trash. Big surprise, heh? That's what they are, they don't actually know anything, they haven't even seen the bike and they say it can't be any good. If I had just spent the last 2 years working on it I'd probably want to put the 'trash OUT' myself. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Go home and play somewhere else. NO ONE knows anything at this juncture, and it is NOT about the lawyers. If they don't like Buells why come here? Just trying to hurt the business of some very innovative manufacturers really. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Curtyd... Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, given that I've failed to get my point across. | ||
| Curtyd |
My question still stands, if you are NOT a Buell enthusiast why come here? There is some agenda on their minds.Much of it seems to attack the brand, nothing more and nothing else. That is why most folks here get very tired of that, why wouldn't we. Nothing is real on the internet, it's just gossip no matter who says it! Anons post that way so they can keep their jobs with HD I assume, no great corporate conspiracy to mislead and make billions. Buell is a VERY small manufacturer I am sure of that. We are lucky they are still out there, REALLY. Most folks would not have bet their money on them 15 years ago. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Reg! I thought maybe you had fallen of the edge of the earth! Glad to see you're still out there. Wish it was under different circumstances. I know it takes a lot to draw you into a room full of mud slingers. I made the statement to Blake that "I absolutely understand the need for the anonymous function." I feel the need to qualify that statement. "I absolutely understand the need for the anonymous function. When it relates to proprietary, technical or design information." If "anonymous" posters feel the need to enter into more personal discussions, they need to have the courage to post their identity. On a lighter note. Are you at Laguna Seca this week end? If so can you give us a firsthand report on the 1125R? Anyone who knows you, knows your opinions can be trusted. Greg | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Greg... I'm philosophically against anon postings on the web because of the huge potential for abuse as evidenced, IMO, here. I was at Monterey; attended the 1125 intro at Carbone's. My two most impressions were, 1)it's much better looking in the flesh than when photographed. The camera applies proportions which don't exist in real life. It's a striking design which will push Buell to its greatest sales figures yet. Two hurdles still exist, tho. First, the magazine articles.Actual ride press won't appear until after the end of August. Those pubs with the shortest lead times will scoop the bigger guys. And secondly, the dealers. I believe the dynamic has changed with this model vis a vis the dealers. In the past, sales donks had to really work at selling the Buell. With the 1125 the danger is they'll get in the way of it selling. More importantly, the "back room". The dealers must absolutely be prepared to handle service on this bike. More that at any time, the fate of Buell rests with the techs and their tools. My second observation contradicts my first a bit. To wit, it looks like Buell ran out of money when it came to designing things aft of the seat. No matter in this first year as it's done the necessary job of catching our attention. There is another important altered dynamic with this model: It is now playing in a league that demands annual change. If the "duty cycle" of the 1125 follows the pattern of the XBs to date,ultimately it will fail. Tony Stefanelli was the platform lead on this bike; he did a masterful job Other than that, further observations await a bit of time in the saddle. Curtyd... Do you really believe that Buell is a "very small manufacturer?' | ||
| Hughlysses |
Reg, Thanks for your observations. It really does sound like an awesome motorcycle. I would however disagree with one of your comments: In the past, sales donks had to really work at selling the Buell. I know in my case, and based on what I've seen here, most people's cases, we bought Buells in spite of the salesmen. I don't think I've ever read a single post where someone walked into a Buell dealership not intending to buy a Buell and then having a salesman convince them to buy one. It's generally just the opposite: someone wants to buy a Buell and the salesman tries to talk them into buying a Harley instead. Most of us liked Buells for whatever reason, researched the bikes on the internet, THEN went to a dealership, found a salesman, and said "I want to buy a Buell". I think we all absolutely agree with you that things have to change at most Buell dealerships, I just think they have even farther to go than your comment suggests. Holy crap, if most dealers actually tried to sell Buells, I'll bet their sales figures would be double what they are now. The Ulysses brought a whole new group of potential sales into HD/Buell dealers, and as you said the 1125R is going to bring even more. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Thanks Reg, Those are the kinds astute observations, from a trusted observer, that we need more of here. Greg | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Hughlysses... The Buell Faithful have run into the problem you cite on a depressingly regular basis. But I'm not referring the TBF in my comment. I'm speaking of the buyer who might now have the 1125 on his list whereas, in the past, Buell was never a consideration. When this buyer...armed with the article and info off the many boards...approaches a Buell/HD dealership he (or she) will do so carrying certain expectations as to how they'll be treated, etc. If the salesperson is not as knowledgable, or tries to swing them towards a Harley model,start playing Taps. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Goodbye and good riddance Puppy. PS. Get a life dude. | ||
| M1combat |
Didn't know you were banned until you posted Bro... I'm not an insider wrt the badweb by any means. It's not just in my world pup. It's the understanding of your web personality (I always reserve judgment of a persons real personality until I meet them btw). It's your MO that you have proven to me time and again. Alright... I wasn't thinking rain when I posted that because I doubt Buell would have made the comment based on a GSXR lap in the wet... Maybe I AM just a blind buell follower? For the record... I doubt they would make that comment based on a GSXR lap where it ran out of fuel either. There I go being a blind Buell follower again... "How did I turn this thread negative,by asking a pertinent question." No Pup... By your proven MO and the way you said it. You meant to demean. You and I both know it. Stop denying it. You do it all the time. The point is... Even if you DIDN'T mean it that way THIS time (Not that I would believe that) I don't care. You've proven yourself and your intentions time and again. It's all good to be Anti-BS Pup. I'm all for it (as I've said a number of times in this thread and even when I conceded to you the fact that I have been wrong before in our exchanges) but when you BLINDLY criticize just about EVERYTHING positive it gets old and people will start to shade what you say with their prior impressions of your conduct. Sorry but you did it to yourself. I'm sure you'll blame Buell somehow though and that's really too bad. They make great bikes and you know it . You even bought one. | ||
| Dbird29 |
What's with the Goat Sucking? (El_chupacabra) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chupacabra What did the goats ever do to you? | ||
| Curtyd |
"Curtyd... Do you really believe that Buell is a "very small manufacturer?'" YEAH, just how many do you think they sell compared to the BiG 4 or even Triumph, BMW and the Euro-bunch on an annual basis? You sure don't see that many of them on the road, more than before, but still not that many. | ||
| Dbird29 |
And who smokes the cigarette afterwards? You or the goat?  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Pup's Alter Ego, I agree with you completely that it is important to know 100% of the factors to make sure that you are getting an apples to apples comparison. I don't want the Buell running on Pro-Comp tires and the GSXR running Tomahawks. I also don't want any funny business with the mapping, suspension, weather, rider, etc. I don't think anyone else does either. Why would I or ANYONE care if the 1125R beat the GSXR if the competition is rigged? The results would be meaningless. Is your assumption that Buell would rig the competition? If so, to what end? I apologize to everyone for getting this thread in the ditch, but I stand by my observation. I also don't like to see Anony slinging mud, but I can understand why. If you spent the last 5 years developing a bike that you are really excited about and someone jumps in and basically calls you a potential liar and results fixer, you'd get a little miffed as well. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Okay kids... Take your hands away from the keyboard... Take a deep breath... Take another deep breath... Now slowly count to ten... Are you still mad? . . . . . . . . . . . THEN SHUT THE DANG COMPUTER DOWN AND COME BACK TOMORROW!!! Sheesh! Kids! | ||
| Dbird29 |
Hey Chupar mi verga That would be beatiality not homosexuality but it is interesting that you would use that argument. Pretty familiar with 'em both aren't you? "lighten up Francis" you are the one that picked the stupid screen name.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You didn't answer the question. IF THE 1125R BEAT THE GSXR (WHICH WE HAVE NO CONFIRMATION BY ANYONE OF SUCH A FACE OFF), DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BUELL RIGGED THE COMPETITION TO ACHIEVE THE RESULTS? | ||
| M1combat |
"I've been on here 4 years,I have seen guys like you come and go." Bloody hilarious coming from someone who just got himself banned . Dude... I didn't say "everything". I said "Just about everything". Please read a complete post before you fly off the handle. You have a habit of that you know... "Really,you can read minds now?" Again... THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. I didn't read anyone's mind. I have watched you on this board for quite some time and I've learned what your MO is. It's not mind reading. It's learning. I'm done with this thread. You obviously just want strife in your life. I'm unwilling to give that to you any longer . | ||
| Jimidan |
What IS that giant sucking sound? | ||
| Blake |
"Is your assumption that Buell would rig the competition? If so, to what end? " Jeremy, Thank you for so diplomatically revealing that issue, which is core to my contempt for such trollishness, to some of the less discerning folks here. There is a HUGE difference between asking "what tires and suspension" versus implying shady/deceitful behavior. One seeks information, the other seeks to malign. Again, the author's history on BadWeB is highly relevant. Reg, You've put your point across very well. That some may not agree is not necessarily indicative of how well a point was communicated. A point/opinion is just that, an opinion, a personal view which may or may not be accurate. "what we have is a person or persons of authority..." That's a HUGE assumption. "...releasing information with zero accountability" Incorrect. "...AND somewhat rudely insulting posters from behind their cloak of invisibility." Do you know who "Thepup" or "El_chupacabra" are? Does anyone here know him/her/them personally? I sure don't. Nice cloak ain't it, especially if you are seeking to belittle and poop on Buell motorcycles on an internet forum, yes? As I've stated before, I have absolutely no problem with anonymi casting the odd insult at known trolls on BadWeB. "On that last one, Blake is always at the ready to lower the hammer on someone who acts unfavorably on this board.Are the Anon. posters exempt from that?" Absolutely not. To date, they've always responded with utmost respect and thoughtfulness, just ask my friend Paul (Snail) Starkweather. "Think a bit about manipulation and how it might be applied here. Then also consider a somewhat relevant story that's been making the biz pages lately. Factor THAT in and things are going to "get real" quickly." I'm not getting anything. Please elaborate. "The other end, however, is a massive corporation guided in its every step by (now here's a real cadre!) lawyers." I strongly disagree. "in its every step" seems like a huge over-generalization. My experience is that the folks getting the job done are doing just that and only when they have a question or when the legal folks notice an issue do the legal folks enter the mix. Working with corporate general counsel was never anything but a very good experience for me and most often I very much appreciated their wise and thoughtful counsel. Can it be that much different for the folks at Buell Motorcycle Company? I doubt it. "The intent is to sell motorcycles. Period." Kinda cynical, yes? Most engineering professionals I know, especially Erik Buell, are compelled in their career by an irrepressible desire to create something great, something new and wonderful. Profit matter only insofar as it allows them to continue feeding their compulsion. "Once that salient fact is forgotten by the consumer, marketing orders up pizza and starts a round of high-fives and fist-butts." The Japan Inc. folks have been high-fiving for decades now since they've sold the moto world on their shrewd "displacement is the only benchmark by which to gauge engine performance" marketing hype. The American moto-media and racing organizations the world over were part and parcel to that con job. "Most (BMC motorcycle nuts) that I have met I genuinely like, and certainly respect. Erik will talk motorcycles till the sun comes up and you're searching for a way to escape." It never seems as though the task of selling motorcycles is paramount in his/their minds, does it? "But, BMC is a business. And, as such, it will use every single arrow in its quiver to sell a motorcycle. And if that means anonymously posting information that endears and enlightens, while occasionally slam-dunking a dissenter... so be it." My take is that anonymi are simply expressing themselves as they would in person. Characterizing the targets of any anonymi as mere "dissenters" is unfair. Plenty of dissenters here express themselves thoughtfully and in return gain thoughtful dialogue. Do you really expect for anyone, anonymi or not, to accept from known naysayers/trolls, personally insulting commentary implying that they are without integrity and not respond in sharp terms? I sure don't. I think like you that some anonymi may be better served to avoid that kind of dialogue, but I don't find it unwarranted. "For me, were these Anons. to post with their real names, I'd be the first to applaud their presence." You missed it. Gotta pay closer attention. "that's their web-given right." Huh-what?  There's some kind of right to insult on the web? "The way it now stands, not only do they not have the right, but they also lack the credibility." I say they have the right, and I also place my own name and credibility behind them. Anyone who has any problem with any anonymous post should take it up with me. If I cannot abide it, I'll do what I can to resolve the issue. | ||
| Blake |
I asked if FtB would be interested in helping to take out the trash, keep the place in good form and lend his counsel to our cadre of custodians here. By his posts, minus the disturbing pictorials, he keeps reminding me that I need to do that. Thanks for your thoughtful nature FtB. You may be deeply disturbed and in need of psychological therapy and a purge of your hard drive's pictorial archives, but you are a wonderful and valued contributor here. Hope to meet you in person some day. | ||
| Paintballtommy |
this might be a little off topic hahaha but.... how about those lap times??? Tom | ||
| Jiffy |
Sorry Blake I disagree with your replies to Reg. Seems the skinny is Anons should be posting facts and not opinions. If they want to post opinions they can do so under a different screen name that does not imply knowledge...especially if the opinion is to degrade a user (even a buell hating user). | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Thanks Blake. As I've said before, I am honored to serve the BadWeb community in any capacity needed. Even if it's only pictorial comedic relief.   Please for God's sake FtB, no mas! Blake (Message edited by blake on July 23, 2007) (Message edited by blake on July 24, 2007) | ||
| Paintballtommy |
PLEASE GOD BREAK OUT THE LAP TIMES!!! |
