| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
but they are ww2 collector items.... they were made so that if the enemey got ahold of them they couldnt use them.... On a similar subject....did you know that the Chinese army use 7.63mm ammunition (or did until recently). This is so that they can use Nato 7.62 ammo but we could not use theirs. Clever people the Chinese. | ||
| Djkaplan |
It was not the cleverness of the Chinese. The ability to use resized NATO ammo in weapons used by Warsaw Pact nations (and not the other way around) has been around for a long time. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Being a simpleton, and a mathematical idiot...I for one LOVE the metric system. It's easy for me to understand that 10mm is bigger than 9mm...but is 11/16...is that bigger or smaller than 5/8? Bigger I guess...let me get out my calculator and divide to get a decimal equivalent. <sigh>....just give me metric tools please. (Message edited by chadhargis on July 20, 2007) | ||
| Spiderman |
calculator!? Lowest common denominator my friend. Which is 16, so 11/16 and 10/16 Fractions are hard   ;) | ||
| Djkaplan |
I can work with the metric system, no problem. What I can't do is use it to approximate things... I can't tell you how fast something was going, or how much something weighs in the metric system just by observing it without converting it, but I can approximate it in English (or what I like to call 'regular') units. Another odd quirk. The 'BTU' is the unit we use to measure heat in the US. BTU stands for British Thermal Unit, but of course... it's not used in Britain anymore. Charming... | ||
| Chadhargis |
From watching racing, I've learned kilometers/hour pretty well. The only metric measurement I have an issue with is the Centigrade scale. I HATE it. The degrees are too wide. A one or two degree change in temp is a BIG change compared to our scale. | ||
| Djkaplan |
And of course... about 90% or more of the tests given in college engineering courses use the metric system, but most of the engineering I've been involved with since 1986 has been in English units. How quaint... | ||
| Djkaplan |
Here's a good one. All the specs published in English motorcycle mags are given in metric... except for top speed. Doing the 'ton' won't be that hard after the changeover. Chip, chip, cheerio... | ||
| Jackbequick |
Cheese, I'll take that Imperial pint, those are larger than the U.S. pints and I'll get an extra 3.22 ounces. And oddly enough, my choice of beverages would be a nice British ale. Something like a brown ale or even a good porter or stout. Yummy! Some of the "metric" beers are okay but they don't leave enough residue from brewing process in them to give them any real character. Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
You ever make it to Columbus, Georgia, I'll take you to a brewpub with the best ales and stout I've ever had. That may not be saying much to a retired squid though. Oddly enough, my best friend from childhood just came back after 20 years in the Navy and the first place we met was at the pub. | ||
| Jimidan |
But the real question is how much more would it have cost to make the new bike ALL METRIC? I would bet, not much...but I admit I do not know, as Anony was rather vague about what "small number of legacy parts" was still standard. Them damn HD bean counters at work again. It is a freakin' $12,000 motorcycle, fer crissakes! (Message edited by Jimidan on July 20, 2007) | ||
| Spiderman |
Anyone got a grinder?  Heeeeer's Jimmi! LOL | ||
| Anonymous |
Just for an example, the brake disc mounting hardware remains non-metric, as it is shared with the XB. As the other anonymi said, it's just a few legacy parts, and it wasn't the Harley bean counters at work. We had to weigh what getting rid of a few non-metric bolts was worth; we decided we'd rather put it in performance enhancements rather than be absolutely consistent in fastener types this year with this motorcycle. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Makes sense to me. Why have to re-tool just to satisfy a few SAE challenged idiots like myself. Thanks for your feedback Anon! | ||
| Jackbequick |
If you mess with any kind of "American made" vehicles or mechanisms much you're almost bound to find a mixture because of all the pieces that come from other places. If they specified all that stuff to be made with Imperial fasteners, it would double or triple the prices of the components. So the people that own it or work on it just have to pay the price by having more tools, the right tools, and using their head as they proceed. One of the worst vehicles I ever had for working on it was a Jeep Cherokee. It took something like a Phillips head screwdriver, a Torx driver, and Imperial (7/16"?) box end wrench to replace a burnt out turn signal bulb. I don't think I ever worked on that without opening every single drawer on the roll around at least once. It was "her's" and her loved it though. Grrrr! Jack | ||
| Mtch |
I carry water, first aid kit, throw ropes, floatation, tool kit (not mix and match...these boats are all American made), extra break-down paddle, emergency space blanket, energy food, extra clothing, fire starter, etc. is the water carried in litres or gallons (US or UK)? (1 US gallon = 0.832673844 Imperial gallons) UK gallons are larger, unusual that as most times its US stuff that is larger (baffled from England) | ||
| Jackbequick |
My Dad was a machinist and had it all memorized. As a kid, and adult too, I struggled with fractions and their decimal equivalents for a long time. Dad used to send me on wild goose chases for things like a 10/16" box end wrench from the third drawer down on the bottom of the roll around. I'd say it was not there and he'd remind me about reducing fractions and LCD's. Oh yeah, now I get it. So I started looking for the tricks... My Dad once said to me, "Remember one decimal fraction, .015625". That is 1/64th of an inch and you can get anywhere from it". True to form, I farted that knowledge off for about 10 or 15 years and then the light came on one day... .015625 = 1/64 .03125 = 1/32 .0625 = 1/16 .125 = 1/8 .25 = 1/4 .5 = 1/2 .5 + .015625 = 33/64 = .515625 .5 + .125 = 5/8 = .625 .125 + .0625 = 3/16 = .1875 etc., etc. And after I used and worked with them for a few years, I had most of them memorized. They used to just pop into my head. It sounds silly, but sometimes there is a joy or inner beauty in having all this trivia jammed away in the corners of your head. For me it is like sharing some kind of tribal knowledge or history or something like that. It saddens me a little to find kids that don't understand rulers, inches and feet, fractions of an inch, and stuff like that. I guess they don't need it any more... But if they get the disease someday, buy an old bike or car or a machine, want to do something with it, they'll have to learn a lot more the hard way than I did. Jack | ||
| Mtch |
i have to work in both inch and metric measurements. a lot of tools will fit near enough. off hand 15/16 =24mm, 11/16 whitworth = 30mm, spanners or sockets. best thing is to be able to look at a nut or bolt and be able to pick the right size out of the toolbox. amazes people who dont handle tools every day. they are like "how do you know that will fit?" | ||
| Trojan |
a lot of tools will fit near enough A sure recipy for rounded heads and chewed fasteners! Tools are not that expensive and having the right size spanner/socket/allen key/torx key is so much nicer than drilling out ruined fasteners. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I'm with Neil on the "near enough" concept working. One example, my first choice for the clutch nut is a extended, six point, 30mm socket that fits the 1-3/16" nut very nicely. 1-3/16"=1.1875", 30mm = 1.181" That socket is for the axle nuts on GM front wheel drive cars and can be found in nearly any U.S. auto parts store. It was like $8 instead of $28 for a chrome plated, 12 point, 1-3/16" socket. Has a black oxide finish and is hardened for use on a impact wrench too. You can tell by the feel when it is close enough. Jack | ||
| Mtch |
i'll add to my comment about "near enough", what i meant was if not torquing up or trying to loosen seized fasteners. use the correct tool for that. i've had to buy inch tools to fiddle with my Scg, that or 'borrow' them from work as for "Almost 100% metric this time. Only a small number of legacy parts" what legacy parts come on a near new design of bike? | ||
| Jimidan |
spiey sez: "Anyone got a grinder? Heeeeer's Jimmi! LOL" Is it really "grinding an ax" or just being a thinking consumer...we are talking about $12,000 of my dollars. Is Buell really above (even on this board where cheerleading abounds and Anony's are gods) a few probing questions that directly affect the utility of the product sold at premium prices? I think not. | ||
| Jimidan |
Mtch: is the water carried in litres or gallons (US or UK)? (1 US gallon = 0.832673844 Imperial gallons) UK gallons are larger, unusual that as most times its US stuff that is larger (baffled from England) We don't carry that much in a kayak...just enough for immediate use. We do carry ceramic water filters though for multi day trips. On raft trips we carry water in US 5 gal. jerry cans. | ||
| Spiderman |
we are talking about $12,000 of my dollars Are you buying one? Either way. re-tooling the rims to run on two different bikes one with standard one with metric would cost millions. Pass that on to the bike on now you are passing that cost onto the bike and could raise the price a few hundred or few grand. So I guess them darn bean counters have thought about it just a little bit. | ||
| Old_man |
I prefer a metric hammer. | ||
| Jimidan |
Retooling? It isn't like they have to redesign the whole wheel. But I will admit I do not know all that that change entails, but it would seem a simple change. I have some friends that work at Toyota in Georgetown, KY, and I will ask them what that change would involve if they did it on their line. It is not the "bean counters" job to think about such things much...they think about making the maximum profits for the shareholders (not that there is anything wrong with that, as long as the compromises aren't too egregious). The aren't ever going to have to work on these bikes on the side of the road. It would seem that it would require using a different bit (metric) and thread cutter (metric) when they are cutting the threads on the same wheel. What is so hard about that? I don't know, but I will find out how Toyota would do it and get back to you (if you really want to know). jimi | ||
| Davegess |
Jimi you really need to start up your own bike company so you can make all these decicions. I know for a fact that Buell could have very easily gone all metric and it would have actually made the bike 100 bucks cheaper but they keep the mix on purpose just to piss guys like you off;) | ||
| Anonymous |
Jimidan, It is simply not rational to do what you are suggesting, so it is total axe grinding. Why in the world would we have two identical wheels but one that has 1/4-20 threads and the other 6-1.0 metric. It's just begging for a quality mistake with some one on the line or at a dealer to put in the wrong fastener and ruin a wheel. Also if you decided you wanted to put a different color XB wheel on your 1125, you'd have to get all new hardware. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with the "bean counters" in your rants, and everything to do with quality. | ||
| Spiderman |
"...and Boom goes the dynamite!" | ||
| Jimidan |
It is simply not rational to do what you are suggesting, so it is total axe grinding. Why in the world would we have two identical wheels but one that has 1/4-20 threads and the other 6-1.0 metric. It's just begging for a quality mistake with some one on the line or at a dealer to put in the wrong fastener and ruin a wheel. Also if you decided you wanted to put a different color XB wheel on your 1125, you'd have to get all new hardware. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with the "bean counters" in your rants, and everything to do with quality. Hmmm, rant (r²nt) v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants. --intr. 1. To speak or declaim in a violent, loud, or vehement manner; rave. --tr. 1. To utter with violence or extravagance: a dictator who ranted his vitriol onto a captive audience. Rant? Is that what you are calling my questions? I would suggest that you do not know the meaning of the words you are using. The inappropriate mischaracterizations of others post, using highly emotionally charged verbiage, is unbecoming for a company rep...but you knew that already. Plus, your explanation is just not logical. It seems entirely rational to have the bike to be all metric or all SAE, as the chance of mistakenly putting the wrong thread fastener in a bike that is "mix and match" is MUCH, MUCH greater than on a bike that is all metric. Surely you cannot deny that! I know because I have made that mistake myself. The likelihood is especially true with 1/4-20 and 6-1.0 metric, as they look so close to the naked eye. If a mechanic is not intimately familiar with each model of Buell to know which fasteners are metric and which are SAE, it is "just begging" for a mistake that would result in screwing up some threads or a whole wheel. Besides, who said that the XB wheel shouldn't be all metric too. I would contend that both the XB and 1225R should use the same all metric wheel, thus preventing any chance of a mistake on the line. Both the XB and the 1225R should be all metric. It just makes sense, but I guess it doesn't make cents.  And are the XBs and 1225 really on the same line anyway? That doesn't make a lick of sense either. Sorry dude, you are going to have to do better than that. Spidey say "boom" (he seems to be easily impressed!), but it sounds like you just dropped the ball to me... (Message edited by jimidan on July 22, 2007) |
