| Author | Message | ||
     Neb25 |
I have been lashing out in these boards and you have lashed back at me personally as well. I felt the need to explain. The new bike is awesome and is just what the majority of your customers wanted, including myself I guess. I love Buell and love racing Buells. I have toured the factory and live nearby. I love the people in the Buell community. I brag about how great Buell racing support and their racing contingency program is to everyone on the track that is not on a Buell. I even promote it on trackday web sites. The reason I am disappointed is I spent alot of money preping the XB for racing. With this new bike I was hoping for a bike that I could just remove the turn signals, mirrors, lights and rear pegs and go race it and be competitive. It is much more economical. You can do this with all of the other manufactures sport bikes but I do not want one of those bikes I want a Buell. To do this I got to do a chain conversion, remove the louvers add a fairing. It's got the right front caliper but no radial master cylinder. Eventually these parts will be available but why not a race replica right from the factory? I know that most buyers will never race the bike and these things are not as important to them but most models from any manufacture never see the race track. But with all the talk of the new bike, its power, specs and racing it, I was expecting a race replica not a street fighter that can be converted into a good race bike like the XB. I talked to other racers at Road America who saw the bike and felt the same. Sorry for the bashing, it will stop now. Congrats on the new bike! In return give me an 1125RR model so that all I got to do is put some race plastics on and go kick some ass. There are some racers out there who have been dreaming of this bike for some time and you are soooooo close. Give us an 1125RR. | ||
| Curtyd |
I am VERY HAPPY that Buell builds a bike first and foremost for the rider out there on the street, saves ME making a race replica comfortable to ride when and where I use it. The street runs both ways, you know. Why should I have to spend bucks on a streetbike? Racing is a VERY expensive hobby, get used to it or try gardening. | ||
| Xbullet |
It's got the right front caliper but no radial master cylinder. Eventually these parts will be available but why not a race replica right from the factory? um.... i have the radial master cylinder off the XBRR on my Xb9SX-R-Whatever (let's just say i've done some mods.  ) it's 90 bucks from your Buell dealer. it's 294 for the exact same thing from Kawasaki. We all throw parts away. that's what the classifieds are for. the less i spend on a bike, the fewer parts i've bought that i don't need/want and i have the option/money to get what I want, and my ridin' buddies have the option to get what THEY want. PLUS, the bike is at a nice, affordable price point. Racing is a rich man's game. and i aint that, but damnit i will have an '09 or '10 model 1125R (gotta keep my XB!) as far as a race replica...there's no "race bike" to replicate. yet. you want all this stuff, but i will do some racing, be it track days or just leasing the track with ten of my closest friends a few time a year. i want to go out there with a low maintenance BELT drive. i guess i got lucky on that one. Fairing...i'm with ya on that. i'd like to see a full fairing, but i'm sure the aftermarket will come around just as they did with the XBs I guess what i'm tryin' to say is that the world doesn't revolve around either of us. and by the way, if you want that radial m/c, look up StealthXB. he has the part number memorized. he has one too. (Message edited by xbullet on July 12, 2007) | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I'd be surprised and disappointed if they didn't release an RR version. We all know how Erik is about racing and supporting the Privateers. Give it some time. In my book, the chances are greater than 50/50 that they will do it. (Message edited by Indy_bueller on July 12, 2007) | ||
| Mutation_racer |
HOW DO YOU THINK WE FEEL. We race a XBRR that is very expensive to race and a XB12R. Im just kidding, im so happy that this bike is out and the first one that comes in is mine. and it will also join the ranks of the race bikes i currently race. thanks eric for doing such a great job on this one | ||
| Sarodude |
So for years, Up & Down burger has only made burgers & fries. People kept calling out for chicken - but Up & Down persisted. The folks who run the burger chain argued that they would not put out a chicken sandwich that wasn't up to their standards. Well, Up & Down finally put out a chicken sandwich. As it turns out, some people really like it! And, wouldn't you know, others don't. You see, this is a grilled chicken sandwich - not fried. Lotsa folks wanted fried. And even if it was fried, most of those wanted a bigger piece of chicken in the sandwich to start with. The health nuts complain that it's not on whole grain bread, the Atkins nuts are pissed that it's not available Protein Style or on a soy flour bun, and someplace there's a middle eastern guy screaming that the chicken shoulda been served off a long, flat stainless steel skewer. We won't mention the PETA people and the Vegetarian Gun Running Bikers for Cthulhu. The day before the announcement, some soon to be very disappointed people bought themselves Double Doubles. A few very savvy individuals sold their old fashioned ground beef sandwiches - and a few of them wound up regretting it when they found out the chicken wasn't exactly to their liking. Even more shocking is those who have stashed away in their freezers decade old hamburgers - claiming that the beef as well as cooking technique from the old days was FAR superior to anything Up & Down uses now. Most of these folks have various promotional materials from the good ole days cluttering their kitchen drawers and the old fashioned stainless steel spatulas (now replaced with superior silicone units) are worth a mint. I'd like to simply suggest to anyone who hasn't already done so, stop turning the pages of the old burger flyers with the antique spatula & please just try the Up & Down chicken sandwich. It's pretty good. -Saro | ||
| Spatten1 |
Yeah, but those of us that got salmonella a few times from chicken want a damn burger instead. Also, the chicken does not provide enough options for the race track, unless Buell is going to sell a bunch of pulleys at sprocket prices. | ||
| Neb25 |
Thanks Spatten, At least someone else gets what I am saying. | ||
| Mikej |
I don't see no chicken on the menu. Maybe they're holding off on updating the menu until the service manuals are printed. Just recently, while down in southernmost Texas, I was introduced to this place, they gots chicken. I may stop by the GIXDUCK shop on the way home and see what the buzz and menu is like there, always interesting to talk trades with them and now maybe moreso. Then when I get home I'll rummage around in the back of the freezer to see if I can find any non-freezerburned burger to nuke and then I'll head out to the garage to continue working on the leaded gas only Maxim carbs. ps, it's kind of hard to add or remove links/teeth from a belt to get the correct length like one can with a chain. pps, I think I got salmonella from an egg with a cracked shell once or twice, but I still eat eggs in restaurants and do just fine with my home cooking. ppps, I'm not sure if I'm still on the analogy track or not, I'll have to get out the GPS to track down where I left my printed map so I can find out where I am and where I was going with this..... (Message edited by mikej on July 12, 2007) | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I miss Whataburger too We were living in El Paso and I'd sneak off and get the jalapeno burger and a shake (which was very near Barnett's HD) -- those were the days. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I, for one, and happy to see the belt drive back. I thought for sure the bike would be chain driven. I ride mostly on the street, and do an occasional track day, but no racing. Wish I could, but it's just too darn expensive. I think Buell built a bike for the majority of it's customers. They have to, they are in business to make money. I'm willing to bet that you'll see some race parts available for the bike including a chain conversion. The factory or aftermarket will step up...they always do. I think the new bike is fantastic. I can't wait to ride one. I'm excited like a kid a Christmas, and I'm proud of Buell for doing this. I think they are the greatest motorcycle company in the world. They treat their customers good, have a great staff who are friendly, and make damn fine bikes. They aren't going to please everyone. I hope they please enough to pay the bills and put some hard earned money in their pockets too. Keep up the good work Buell!!! | ||
| Mikej |
A chain conversion will probably have to include a modified swingarm.  Things are going to get very interesting. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I would figure a chain would be smaller in width than a belt, so it shouldn't hit the swingarm. | ||
| Mikej |
But you need to slot the swingarm for chain adjustments with sprocket ratio changes.  http://www.halspa.com/ShopByBikeDetails.asp?B=BUEL L | ||
| Neb25 |
The point is why can't we get this right from the factory. All the other manufactures sportbikes are ready to go right off the showroom floor. Why not a Buell? They are the one's who got us excited by saying that they wanted to go racing and mentioned World Superbike. On the Buell website it is called a "sportbike" and on this thread "superbike" not "street fighter" or "half faired sportouring" but Sportbike and Superbike. This thing is about 5 modifications from being a serious sportbike. If Buell is serious about wanting people to race this bike then they should produce a racer right off the showroom floor. It is almost there already. | ||
| Jscott |
OK, I'll admit to being a total idiot, but why can't Buell just offer different tooth belt pulleys? How many different tooth chain sprockets would a racer need to test gearing? (Message edited by JScott on July 12, 2007) | ||
| Sarodude |
Something we should all consider..... Buell is building a bike its customers are intended to buy and ride as built. The benefits of the belt drive are LIKED by lots of people - and the benefits of not having to adjust the belt are equally appreciated. It would be annoying to have to buy a whole bunch of bits JUST to facilitate drive tension changes (the real issue - not belt vs chain) but I would imagine you're talking about the minority of buyers. So, should the bike be compromised in cost, maintenance, manufacturing (one less thing to adjust on the assembly line), and performance (added weight of chain and reduced efficiency of all but the most freshly maintained chains) to satisfy the minority of purchasers? Maybe there could be a middle ground. My suggestion: Make an adjustable swingarm standard - but insert fixed blocks from the factory in the adjusting mechanism - and keep the belt. Most people wouldn't ever pull the blocks and use the adjustability - but those who wanted chain / ratio swaps would then have the option. I'm sure that's full of holes, but it's just an idea. Alternatively, why is it so far fetched that Buell may make a race-ready bike? Not one with a serial number for the street - but made for a privateer like the XBRR? That way, money wouldn't be wasted on throw-aways (mirrors, signals, lights, chain conversion) and you could even get it standard with a mappable ECM. I wonder if this may even already been in the works... -Saro | ||
| Mikej |
"If Buell is serious about wanting people to race this bike then they should produce a racer right off the showroom floor. " It's not November yet, nor 2008, who really knows what's behind curtain #3. Jscott, I know that dedicated bicycle velodrome riders often have over a dozen different sprocket combinations depending on what event and track they're racing and how they're feeling. I'd suspect, not having been a motorcycle track road racer, that there are at least that many combinations of sprockets for various tracks and weather conditions and tire compounds and rider setups. Hopefully one of the racers on the site here will chime in with how many final drive ratios they have available. | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK, I'll admit to being a total idiot, but why can't Buell just offer different tooth belt pulleys? How many different tooth chain sprockets would a racer need to test gearing? J, The problem is the belt length. It's easy to lengthen or shorten a chain to suit different pulley sizes, but a belt has to be manufactured to the correct length. You might be able to handle a slight change by adjusting the axle, but then that compromises your ability to adjust the wheelbase. I guess they could eventually produce belts in a bunch of lengths, but that would be a pretty expensive proposition and would require teams to have a bunch of different belts on hand. | ||
| Neb25 |
"Alternatively, why is it so far fetched that Buell may make a race-ready bike? Not one with a serial number for the street - but made for a privateer like the XBRR? That way, money wouldn't be wasted on throw-aways (mirrors, signals, lights, chain conversion) and you could even get it standard with a mappable ECM. I wonder if this may even already been in the works... " Saro, that would be awesome if you are right. It can be sold as a street bike just like a R6 or GSXR. The difference is these bike are ready to race on the showroom floor. These bikes are less $$ than the 1125r and they have necessary go fast parts that the Buell doesn't like. Radial brakes Full fairing Steering stablizer Chain drive If these were offered on a model from the factory it would not cost much at all and everything would be integral. I know these can all be added but why. All other sportbikes come with the components and I think there is a reason why. | ||
| Rainman |
I don't know nuffin' about racin' no sportbikes. I do know that I ride nearly everday to and for work, sometimes putting 20 miles on the bike sometimes 120 in rain, heat, cold and once or twice last winter in freezing rain and snow. (Freezing rain is a REAL bummer.) This first year with the Blast has convinced me that the Buell-designed bikes with their great handling and torque curves are the best available for the kind of riding I do. Honda did that for years with the CBR600F series, until they had to sharpen it up to keep up with the track-oriented Zooks, Skis as Has. The last one I road was seriously uncomfortable for scary winter riding. The XBs that I've testridden seem perfect for daily riding and I think the 1125r will be too. I hope they will make race parts easily available and cheap for those who do serious track time but always leave something for us daily guys. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Buell has unveiled a new "Street Bike". I'm pretty sure it's targeted at people who ride mostly street with perhaps the occasional (or perhaps frequent) track days. Give it at least a year. BMC might very well release a race only version just like they did with the XBRR but they sure as hell won't release such a bike until it's been properly tested and approved. You want this race bike now in a half ass state or would you be willing to wait and give them the time they need to make it as good as it can be? This is just pure speculation on my part. I have no idea if BMC will truly release a race only version but it is Buell. Racing is in the blood stream. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Buell doesn't need to ship a race ready bike. Just a frigging chain and sprockets setup as an option. Of course, it wouldn't hurt the Mo Co to sell a cheaper race ready bike with off-road title and no lights and mirrors. Ducati did that a year or two ago and sold them for less than the road going versions. That would populate the track with Buells right quick. | ||
| Metalstorm |
If Buell doesn't come up with a swingarm/chain conversion I'd bet the after market will. Maybe one of our very own clever Badwebers even A race ready version for less $$ than the street version would be beyond awesome! | ||
| Jiffy |
I understand your concern with racing, but I believe there are more street riders than racers. Most Japanese bikes are race bikes from the factory. I like that Buell makes bikes more for the everyday rider. The racers have the time and knowledge (usually) to prep a bike for racing. I hate taking a bike from the dealer and having to make it streetable. Just my .02 cents. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Maybe the idler pulley for the belt drive is robust enough to be used for idler with the chain drive too. Looking at the configuration on the belt drive that is there now, I'm not even sure there is clearance for a straight run of chain on the lower run. Might be that an idler will be needed in any case. At any rate, if they want to race they'll make it work somehow. Jack | ||
| Blake |
Radial (mount) brakes are necessary for racing? Hardly. Do I really need to relay the opinions of Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Cicotto, Dan Bilansky, and Steve Crevier on how competently the XBRR brake performs? Buell don't need no stinkin' radial mount brake. You might be surprised to learn of one major underlying motivation behind the development of radial mount brakes. Hint: It isn't related to performance. It seems clear to me that this version of the 1125R is NOT the one that will be hitting the Superbike circuit. I named the thread not based upon a racing bike connotation, just based upon the performance class of the new bike. Sheesh. I don't know of any bike that is ready to race right off the showroom floor. No stock fairing lowers are going to pass tech. Many sport bikes do not come standard with steering dampers. Safety wiring and race prep are not trivial for any stock bike. Complaining that the 1125R is not a race-ready model is something I don't get. If folks are that nickel and dime concerning the preparation of a racing machine, then are they really very likely to be purchasing a brand new $12,000 motorcycle on which to go racing? I doubt it. | ||
| Akdavis742000 |
Jiffy Said: I understand your concern with racing, but I believe there are more street riders than racers. Most Japanese bikes are race bikes from the factory. Hey Jiffy, I think your point is spot on, but just so ya know, most Japanese bikes are not sport bikes. Most Japanese bikes are little wussy scooter things heheh!! But as far as Japanese bikes sold here in the states, yes, they do tend to come MORE prepared for the track more often, as compared to Buells to date, excluding XBRR(if we're comparing dollar for dollar... I wouldn't put the SV650 in the same category as the XB or 1125, they're priced thousands apart, and the suspension components are vastly inferior to the Buell's, which are still not stellar). Japanese motor co's address the market very differently than Buell. Buell's doing 1, or maybe 1.5 things and doing them very well. He's making exceptionally competent sport bikes with real world accessible power, delivering style, and doing it fairly affordably with the HD 1203 motor and now the Rotax. Japs are doing EVERYTHING fairly well overall (cruiser, touring, sport, dirt, sport-touring, scooter, UJM, et al), and very very well in one particular thing, road racing at the liter bike level. My point is you might be comparing apples and oranges because the companies being compared behave and are run entirely differently. Japs act like borgs, in unilateral assimilation of each other for the cash quench. That means you HAVE to win races to get that mass appeal. Whereas Buell is run by a visionary mad scientist with a whim for things that burn the rubber off of the SIDES of tires first, but leaving the middle to get you home safely. He's for "those other guys", and I like that he won't make JUST a crotch rocket. His stuff is a thought out experience. It's visceral, when I get on mine, and I crack that throttle, and I grab second and I just feel the tire leave the ground ever so slightly... joy... and I'm not even trying to go fast just enjoying the G's and the sound of exploding hammers. I feel somewhat sad for Erik Buell right now, because he already HAS delivered a race bike that was true to the form that Buell had trademarked (figuratively speaking) 25 years ago, and that is of course an american motor in a modern sportbike chassis. He DID deliver such a bike, so all purists and old schoolers should be satisfied that races were run by XBRR in FX class, and I THINK the RR might have broken the top 10 a couple of times, too. That's nothing to sneeze at, right? That's duly noted and acknowledged, right? SO BE HAPPY! Jordan motorsports on their first year weren't all that, were they? So it didn't work out as well as planned for Buell Racing (reliability, bla bla), now they've moved on to something else, and now everyone wants a race version of THAT TOO? That's basically asking Buell to be and do something he didn't intend. Bottom line is, if you wanted a modern V-Twin sport bike with race-ready equipment (not saying race-prepped, but MORE race EQUIPPED as race prepped from factory is unheard of at the full production level-i.e. hundreds of thousands of bikes), there have been plenty to choose from since long before Rotax and Buell put their heads together. Some with less, as good, or even WAY FRIGGN' better performance for the same, or considerably less money so go get one of those if that's what you want. Why should Buell have to step into that market and try to build one just because he listened to us when we told him we wanted a 6 speed just like everyone else on a sport (not a race) bike in the last decade. He's giving us what we want!!! Smile!! Somebody is listening! A race equipped sport bike is what EVERYONE sells, and the whole point of the Buell is to do things a bit differently, so why go that route? Buell should embrace the bikes he builds, and so should all of us... they're not race bikes, they're made to be ridden with spirit, and often, I think we'd all agree on that last part. Even with the Rotax, it's a street bike! I think the racing attempts are noble, and a great way to represent the company and our love of the bikes, but if you step into building a line of race bikes, you stop making Buells. Erik makes, and has made perfectly awesome, beautiful, fun, and bitchin bikes that I dig riding and tracking to death, crashing, and riding them again, so why change? I think it's cool he's doing this modern twin thing, I think there's a call for it (it's been written about for years now) and it's not like they stopped making HD-powered sport bikes so all the purists can still get a 12R or S, or whatever else, i have an 04-12R fairly modified and I still LOVE it because it sounds like 25% NASCAR, 100% testosterone (sp?), and when I pull up at the roadhouse for a gatorade, they say "Jesus, that thing sounds REALLY MEAN". And I say "yeah, pretty much." Tell me rotax is going to sound like that huh? Watch Ben Spies ride his Yoshimura GSXR-1000 and you'll see a guy with his knees rubbing on the backs of his shoulders practically, this position is not in Erik Buell's vocabulary. What's the slogan again? ..."From the Rider Down..." | ||
| Peterr |
Neb25, I hang around racing bikes a fair bit, and I can't think of one that still has it's standard rear shock, steering damper or front fork internals or standard pitch chain, (unless it is delivered from the factory with öhlins tackle. The price is NOT the same though....) Stock Japanese superbikes have stearing dampers and "race-looking" stuff, and it works OK for the road, but it's built to a price, and the track shows it up. I look foward to something close to the XBRR in concept, only for Superbike or Superstock it'll need lights and the possibility to be registered, and may need price capping for some championships, but a standard 1125RR version sold with an 1199 race kit may be a good thing to ask Santa for... | ||
| Trojan |
A chain conversion will probably have to include a modified swingarm. Not necessarily. The chain conversion that we developed with Free Spirits for the XB series uses the stock swingarm, and there seems to be no reason why a similar system could not be used for the 1125R. Just replace the fixed tensioner wheel with an adjustable chain tensioner. The only issue I can foresee on the new model (and I haven't seen one in the flesh to confirm this of course)may be finding a way of preventing chain lash so that it doesn't hit the swingarm where the chain passes through it, but that shouldn't present any major problems really. One thing I have been pondering on though, and I admit I may have missed something vital here, how do you remove the stock belt on this swingarm? It looks like one of those chinese puzzles, and unless part of the left side swingarm unbolts as on the current XB (which I can't see in the available pictures) I don't see how it can be removed/replaced. There appear to be very few detailed pictures available of the belt drive & left side of the swingarm so it is difficult to see exactly, but it is a puzzler. |
