| Author | Message | ||
     Dongalonga |
I really believe dirt is a big step in the wrong direction for Buell...they need to focus on being a world beater in one genre (or at least competetive) before stepping into one as competetive as dirt bikes. I dont doubt Erik can pull off both but I think he is doing the majority of his customers a diservice by not getting the sportbike done first. I know if there isnt something very competetive in the next say two to three years I will probably be riding a Triumph or Ducati. | ||
| M1combat |
Me either Aatch, but I'm a patient guy. Buell makes street bikes as their first order of the day (as opposed to "race replicas" unless that has changed). Does anyone know what the engine/cooling system on the 1098 engine weighs? What about the XB engine? I know that the RR engine is 40lbs lighter than the XB engine so with a bit of math we should be able to come up with comparative weights between an RR engined street bike and a 1098. The RR engine makes 157HP at the wheel in race trim. How much would we need to take off of that to make it street reliable (keeping in mind that Walt finished the 200 and two or three more races without a rebuild)? In any case... I see a sub 400lb or very close to 400lb bike (wet) with about 135-140hp and quiet as a mouse (until I throw a CF Drummer on it ;))... Then we're talkin a 380lb bike with 140-145HP ;). "Buell will be unveiling a dirt bike first not a hyper sport bike. " That may be true ;), but keep the definition of "hypersport" in mind  . "Spike, there will be a limited release of an 1200 cc Ducati. " They should make 3000 of them. The homologation rules changed in our favor ;). I've heard a few people that probably have a couple contacts state that 2008 should be a good year... Even before the 07s were released. Anyway... I don't know anything but I don't see the RR engine going to waste. Look at it. The cam cover is VERY production looking. There are Pegasus cast into the block. It's not sand cast as was previously stated. It solves a couple issues that didn't need to be solved for race distances... I think we'll see it at some point . If it's in a couple weeks I may trade up but more likely I'll just buy and then rebuild the Firebolt. Two bikes are better than one (well, if I don't count the KL600R that sits next to the Mustang collecting dust). | ||
| Spatten1 |
rebuild the Firebolt What happened to your 'bolt? | ||
| M1combat |
Well... It's got 47K miles on it. I may have destroyed one of the cam bearings or a valve guide too. It's making a funky noise that sounds like it's coming from the front head (using a stethoscope). It still starts/runs fine all the way through the rev range and makes good power but I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about that noise. It was my fault though... I hadn't checked the oil level in a while and it got REALLY warm one day. I checked the oil at the end of the day and it was about a quart and a half low... I'm ashamed to even say that so go easy on me... I guess I just got used to the simple reliability of a Buell and didn't check it for a while. I think it sucks oil through a valve guide. In any case... I have plenty of other wheels (my cylinder count is 17) so I'm all good. I was thinking about rebuilding it anyhow but had I not let the oil go it wouldn't have needed it any time soon... Thanks for making me say that in THIS thread too ;). The one thread that probably everyone on the board will read . | ||
| M1combat |
That's a good pic in your profile . Listening to Black Sabbath as I type ;). | ||
| Court |
>>>I really believe dirt is a big step in the wrong direction for Buell... Don't stay awake worrying about it. You're covered. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Thanks Don, I'm pretty proud of that picture. I still love Sabbath, both versions. Let's see, 13 years old to 39 years old..cipher..naught...cipher, 26 years of Sabbath, Zeppelin, Rush, etc! Sorry to hear about your bike. I put a couple of quarts in mine after rebuilding it, and forgot to top it off right away after warming it up on the first ride. I ran it for at least 25 miles over a quart low! Felt like an idiot, but water under the bridge now. No problems at all. Just make sure the noise is not the top or bottom rod bearings. Could tear up cases, etc. if the rod lets go. You got some good miles on it, time to freshen it up. Not too bad a job if you don't have to split the cases. That took a few special tools, so I outsourced that part. Stripping everything outside of the cases was not too bad. Good luck! I hope it is something minor and outside of the cases. | ||
| M1combat |
Anyone have MP3's of Erik and the Thunderbolts btw? I'd like to hear them but a trip to homecoming just isn't in the cards ATM. | ||
| Macbuell |
The more I think about, as M1 said, I'm more and more convinced that we will be seeing a detuned, street version of the XBRR. If they can give us a bad-ass air-cooled XB with 120RWHP, I think most of us will be very happy. Also as M1 said, I'd just have to figure out if I want to trade in the 12 or add another bike to my stable. They can release a 150+RWHP Superbike next year. | ||
| Blake |
Duc999 has 150 RWHP? Where is that reported please? Performance of 1098S as reported by www.motorcycle.com. (They absolutely totally dig that bike.)...
They may be using a Superflow dynamometer, I dunno. | ||
| Ducxl |
If they can give us a bad-ass air-cooled XB with 120RWHP, I think most of us will be very happy. All of us.But DaveGess is a killjoy.His post really depressed me. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, "Comments by Scott about the great power and handling of this bike would appear to put the XR1200R firmly into traditional Buell customer territory, and will certainly appeal to those who mourn the loss of the tube frame bikes in particular. This foray into the Buell customer base by H-D begs the question ' Where to for Buell?'. " You've gotta be kidding me. You are, kidding, aren't you? That XR1200R is something H-D should have brought to market years ago. But good grief, it's just a Sportster with some fancy pipes and different bodywork. For someone so darn discerning wrt sport bike performance, are you seriously telling me that you consider a tarted up rubber mounted Sportster as equivalent to even an old tube framed Buell? If so, then dude... Please step away from the office and thyne computer monitor and take thyself to a race track to regain thy sanity.  Perhaps you may be able to see the Hillbilly-Motors tube framer that has done so well racing over in Germany. I know Buell motorcycles. I've ridden and raced Buell motorcycles. Buell motorcycles are a friend of mine. Your XR1200R Sportster is no Buell Motorcycle. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
I've heard a little mouse VERY close to Buell that you should expect a liquid cooled 160hp Rotax engine for 2008. Something very similar to the Aprilla motor, but with a Buell twist........ | ||
| Court |
M1 - I have the MP3's but I'm not sure they were final and I'm not at liberty to send them. My bet is that the CD will be available quite soon. The final hang was the cover art and my bet is you won't have to wait long. This stuff rocks. | ||
| Aatch |
now, THAT would make me happy! 160 hp with a Buell twist? who wouldn't like that? seriously, at that point does anyone really care weather it's air or water cooled? or weather it's a rotax engine or an h-d lump? again, 160hp with a Buell twist makes me WAY more giddy than thinking about a new dirt bike and "bold new colors".... only a few more days to wait.... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's another article on the rumored hyperbike. From what I can get, this says the engine is a Buell/Rotax collaboration: German website: http://www.motorradonline.de/archiv/motorraeder/ne ue-supersportler-von-bmw--buell-und-aprilia.260174 .htm (Google translation): Buell XB12 RRS Buell fans will have themselves to wait no longer so long. At the latest in August becomes the veil of the motorcycle pulled, to its Presentation on the racing course of Laguna Seca the Americans already invited. Without telling more about the machine. Then that must come more over the new one evenly from unofficial source. It will possess one in co-operation with Rotax newly developed engine, a water-cooled 1200er-V2, which is to press approximately 150 HP. Enough anyhow, around the sportsman on 280 km/h too accelerate. With the past Aprilia-V2 von Rotax the 1200er will not do any longer to much have. Probably those selected engine farmer instead of the” Aprilia Zylinderwinkels “from 60 degrees the 45 degrees typical for Buell and for the improvement of the run culture two balance waves in the engine accommodated. Thus engine and rocker without those know so far force rubber elements for the absorption to get along, which promotes the stability of the chassis. For less sporty models there is to be an air-cooled variant of the aggregate. No revolutionary innovations are to be expected with the construction of the framework. It will function in the additional occupation as gasoline tank, the rocker as oil reservoir. At the most chassis geometry changes; a flatter guidance head and more wake must promote straight line discharge stability. In the past year the run Buell XB RR presented for the Daytona Speedweek gives the collecting main for the Design to the new Sportlerin. Computerretuscheur Guerin took the liberty only to arrange the shapeless seat peak somewhat more delicate. Surely in the sense of most prospective customers. | ||
| Dongalonga |
So am I reading correctly that they believe it will still be a 45 degree twin...in that case this is entirely possible in the XB chasis with at lot less redesign than the proposed idea of a 60 degree. | ||
| Blake |
How to deflate the market of your competition? Spread false rumors of incredible HP new model. | ||
| Dongalonga |
I would be extremely happy with 120 rwhp thats not incredible by any stretch of the imagination but it is plenty for the street imho. Why does it seem like July 8th is never coming?!?! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
All I know is we have what, 9 days before we know for sure? I'm not betting on a detuned street RR. I think they're going a whole new route. The Rotax thing is very very interesting. Very very.......  | ||
| Doerman |
Translation of Motoraad “speculation article” on the new Buell. -------------------------------------------- Buell fans will not have to wait much longer. August at the latest, at the Laguna Seca race track, the bike will be unveiled to a group of American invitees. The details obtained from unofficial sources are sketchy, but here is what we can surmise at this point. It will have a new engine developed in cooperation with Rotax. It will be a V2 1200 cc water cooled engine that will push the 150HP mark. Enough anyhow to reach top speeds of 280KM/H. The engine will not have much in common with the Aprilia V-2. Most likely the engine configuration will be a typical Buell 45 degree instead of the "standard 60 degrees Aprilia configuration" and employ two counter balancers to improve vibration inherent in the 45 degree trademark Buell configuration. This should alleviate the need for rubber mounting of motor and swing arm which improves chassis stability. Less sporty models will receive an air-cooled variant of the motor. No revolutionary innovations are to be expected with the construction of the frame. It will still function as a gas tank with the oil reservoir in the swing arm. At the most there might me minor geometry changes with a flatter steering head and longer wheelbase to promote high speed stability. The Buell XBRR presented at the Daytona Speedweek is the background for the new sports model. A computer generated rendition by Mr. Guerin took the liberty only to reshape the seat somewhat to make for a more comfortable ergonomics, surely in the interest to make the bike more interesting to the mainstream sport market. ------------------------------------------- Interesting! Asbjorn (Message edited by doerman on June 28, 2007) (Message edited by doerman on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Dongalonga |
I havent been this excited since I lost my virginity!!  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Asbjorn, Thanks for the much-more-understandable translation. This also means it is a Buell-specific engine which may calm down some of the comments about not liking the bike if it has a non-Buell engine. Wow, a 45 degree water-cooled V-twin is a neat idea. I can't wait to hear what that sounds like (assuming it's true of course). Oh yea, 280 km/hour = 174 MPH for the metrically challenged!  | ||
| Skully |
Court, Listening to the Thunderbolts make me feel "Alive"!  Keith (Message edited by skully on June 28, 2007) | ||
| Doerman |
Motorad is a respected magazine. They don't fib and fantasize very often. If this were realty, there's a couple of things that seems difficult to pull off. 1) Rotax and Buell working out the engineering for what amounts to a merging of the sportster and the standard rotax layout. That's certainly not done in a day! Doable, but requires time, collaboration and resources. 2) Aircooled version of the same motor for the less performance oriented Buells. It is not that easy to "unwater" a motor. Or are we to understand that the non water version is essentially the continuation of our beloved "lump" It also seems to signal a departure or distancing from HD technology reliance. Not a bad thing considering that the product is well down that path already. ...if this is real.. Then a BIG Cheers! Asbjorn | ||
| Indy_bueller |
There is an awful lot of smoke here, for there to be no fire. I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up. | ||
| Dongalonga |
yeah i dont remember there being this much hype from the moto journalists about water cooling.....like you said where there is smoke there is usually fire....or in this case water!! | ||
| Trojan |
You've gotta be kidding me. You are, kidding, aren't you? That XR1200R is something H-D should have brought to market years ago. But good grief, it's just a Sportster with some fancy pipes and different bodywork. For someone so darn discerning wrt sport bike performance, are you seriously telling me that you consider a tarted up rubber mounted Sportster as equivalent to even an old tube framed Buell? If so, then dude... Please step away from the office and thyne computer monitor and take thyself to a race track to regain thy sanity. Perhaps you may be able to see the Hillbilly-Motors tube framer that has done so well racing over in Germany. I know Buell motorcycles. I've ridden and raced Buell motorcycles. Buell motorcycles are a friend of mine. Your XR1200R Sportster is no Buell Motorcycle. Blake, To a lot of customers, style is more important than performance, and the idea of a 90bhp sportser that actually handles and stops will appeal to a lot of customers who otherwise may have opted for an XB because the tube framers were no longer available. The H-D badge will also impress some people more than the Buell name does, simply because it is more well known. The XR1200R has met with huge support in the UK and Europe, and I know of a lot of current Buell owners who will consider getting one instead of their current X1/S1/M2 etc. Personally I agree with your assessment of the bike and I wouldn't have one even as a gift, but plenty of people will buy them, and these are all prospective customers that Buell will lose. | ||
| Court |
>>>these are all prospective customers that Buell will lose. Not to worry . . the XR1200 will never see the light of day. As far as a new engine goes, I think Buell has pretty much provided more than enough hints, don't you? | ||
| Mesafirebolt |
Ummm NO! I MUST have missed them all. I try to read all official news and information but I dont see ANY hints as to hard details of this new bike and its performance. All I know is I'm GLAD mines paid for 'cause I may need that loan available for next month! |
