| Author | Message | ||
     Tom_b |
the vr engine when first being considered for street use was unreliable as it had been built for racing only. It took porsche engineers to work the bugs out of it and make it streetable. | ||
| Court |
Johnny: No, actually you are correct. Unreliable should not have been on that list. It's personal bent showing through. Most of the reasons I don't care for the VROD have little to do with the engine and the folks I know who ride them are thrilled with them. Tom:
Your info pipeline is bad. None of the information in that statement is correct. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Thought I had watched a TV episode on the vrod that mentioned the porsche info... But never paid any real attention. Probably were the scuttle but got started. | ||
| Cowboy |
I have 30000 miles on my v-rod they have very hard and fast miles I am very happy with the motor as I have never put a wrench to it, as a matter of fact I am still runing the original plugs. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
With all the moaning about "parts bin specials", why would anyone want Buell to dip into the HD parts bin for the VRod motor? I want a clean slate motor. Why have a bike designed around the faults of some motor. Design the bike from the ground up including the motor. That way we have a bike that people claim is the "whole package" instead of "great bike, except for the motor". I love my XB, but I know that Erik and crew can do even better! I know better isn't in hanging the VRod motor around their necks. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on June 28, 2007) | ||
| Court |
Now we're talking. . . . that's a gosh darned accurate statement. Think for a minute. Knowing what you know about the folks at Buell, do you really see them "modifying" an existing anything in some sort of compromise solution to rush something out the door? Face it, these are folks, without exception, who have passed on the higher paying, more visible jobs, to go to a rural town with a terrible climate for the ability to work with other similarly gifted and so motivated individuals, to do something great. No Elf from East Troy has ever followed a crowd anywhere. Sure, I get accused of over hype but I gotta tell you I'm damned excited and make no apologies for my genuine enthusiasm. And hell . . . . that's just about the CD coming out!  | ||
| Rex |
I would love to have a vrod motor in a bike, like my m2, or in a honda st 1300 type of frame. taking it in its current frame and just adding bags is not what I want. will just keep my m2. It fits perfectly, runs great, sounds great, and handles great. I do like the looks of the vrod motor though. cannot stand the hd bike it is in. doesn't fit, doesn't work. too bad. rex  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I love the 69 Chevelle. The raw power, the rumble, the look. A hopped up WRX could kick it's ass all day every day and twice on Sunday. Point is, we either embrace performance, or we embrace nostalgia. Our current XB's are about as much a compromise between the two as we are going to see (which is why I think that even with a radical performance revision there is still a place for the XB). There are significant detractors here and elsewhere that want either a nostalgic tuber or the next liter bike beater and chuck rocks at the current offerings. Were I an Elf, I would be looking to scratch both itches. Can ONE bike do all that? I'd love to see one bike please both Spatten and Rocketman. I think, though, it'll take two different models. If so, great! If it CAN all be done in one package, Dear Lord I'm gonna be hemoraging cash soon!  | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Court: "Knowing what you know about the folks at Buell, do you really see them "modifying" an existing anything in some sort of compromise solution to rush something out the door?" That is probably the best/most promising thing I've read related to a new Buell bike. | ||
| Tom_b |
Court, it was a german automaker ( maybe not porsche)that refined and tuned the engine. they talked about how hard it was to get a race engine to run on a street bike and how much of it had to be redisgned. There was a special on tv about the designing and building of the vrod. It showed the engine being run on a computer controled simulator that simulated a particular hard stretch of the autobahn. It even showed willie G test riding the v-rod while it was still in a prototype form and how much time it spent in a sound chamber to get the "harley" sound. How the first design of the front airscoop didn't work. How the first prototype was flat black to hide some the lines. I guess I just made all this up or the show was wrong. It was on the discovery channel right about the time the v-rod was introduced.It was called the "Birth of the VRod. It was on in Sept of 2002 (Message edited by tom_b on June 28, 2007) | ||
| Tom_b |
By the way court if Erik buell is such a diehard air cooled v-twin fan, why would he even have considered that engine in the first place. That goes against what you have always said about buell designs | ||
| Tom_b |
It was porsche that helped develop the engine see this linkhttp://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/harley-davi dson/first-ride-2002-harleydavidson-vrsca-vrod-132 45.html | ||
| Etennuly |
Tom_b, I remember seeing that show on the V-Rod too. | ||
| Tom_b |
http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/2002reviews/review50.htm (Message edited by tom_b on June 28, 2007) Blake fix broken hyperlink (Message edited by blake on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Tom_b |
The biggest reason I remember so much about this is I was really excited about it till I actually saw one and rode one. I kept my buell. the bikes are fast and comfortable, just not my cup of tea. Feel real heavy to me. Court, either your pipeline is bad, or your your memory is going. Unless Harley let the discovery channel and all the media outlets print lies about their vrod (Message edited by tom_b on June 28, 2007) | ||
| Tom_b |
http://www.chuckhawks.com/vsrca_v-rod.htm | ||
| Tom_b |
something else i remember the original idea was to use the LIQUID cooled vr 1000 motor which was a RACE only motor but proved to problematic, even for harley-davidson to be a winner. the reasoning behind this was all the money and research tied up into the vr1000 program. anybody who knows harley racing history remembers that the vr1000 was first raced in 1994 and it was a dog. I think they first started working on the vr1000 in the mid 80's. I don't remember how but aman named roush was involved in the original development of the vr1000,who was also a h/d engineer. Do I need to locate some kind of link to back this up too court? (Message edited by tom_b on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Anonymous |
First VR meeting February 1987. Want to guess who was in the meeting and proposed the VR configuration? Want to guess who did the first engine layout with 13 degree crankcase split line, and cylinder offset as it is still? Want to guess who proposed the name VR and why? Do you know the first VR motors had a shock mount on the bottom of the cases? Hmmmmmmm? Want to see it in a book with pictures and documentation? | ||
| Rex |
yes. there should be a buell documentary, like the vrod documentary. at least a book, like victory had. would make good reading. | ||
| Tom_b |
o.k. so you post anon, then tell me you know who designed the vr 1000. what does that have to do with what i posted? yes, i would like to see the pic's and book, it would be a cool read | ||
| Oldog |
Want to see it in a book with pictures and documentation? YES! Please as far as would I want a V-wad lump in the buells. er NO I have not all ways held that view, As I have learned the ways of My bike I have come to apreciate it for what it is. short comings and all. My hope is that after all of the improvements the Buell guys have made in the "XL" platform that the "mutha ship" might step aside and let the Elves take a swipe at it (building a killer street motor) I suspect that the result will be out standing, IMO the XBRR bears witness to that. }anybody who knows harley racing history remembers that the vr1000 was first raced in 1994 and it was a dog. At the end of the day it takes time and money to be successful racing, IMO lack of tallent was never the issue but a lack of money/support from the corp appears to have been again my 0.02$} | ||
| Tom_b |
so if i'm reading anon, and court's posts right. the vr1000 was a buell designed engine that was taken over by h/d and now Buell's feelings are hurt even after 20 yrs. hmmm. so this is why he will never consider a water cooled engine of his own design? Hmmm . Oldog I agree with you about why h/d failed at racing the vr1000 (Message edited by tom_b on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Court |
Tom: No one is "mad" and I'm sorry I ever mentioned it. It'll be very interesting reading and you make me both pleased and relieved to have save a sufficient crocus of documents to make it REALLY interesting. By the way, that's not all that got saved. Here. . . let me help you. Look at the following picture. One is a totally bogus, created to entertain the small groupie mind, juvenile story of what a group of folks claim they got together and did.  The other is a book about a bad band. I was forced to participate, in 1st grade, in an exercise entitled "fact or fancy". For the time being, since I am neither prepared to toast, roast, spindle or mutilate some folks I'm going to declare you the WINNER and I am going to concede and leave it at the point of simply saying that I am an ill educated construction worker, prone to baseless embellishment who has a differing opinion and is unprepared to prove my point. . . . . . . at present. YOU WIN! Harley-Davidson created that lump of coal on their own simply to make an incredible documentary. Just out of curiosity, in which HD facility did the German company lease space, how many square foot, how did the guys from a small American company out smart them (claiming design required natural light) and get the cushy window offices. . how the heck did the Germans get involved. . . was one of the kids, desperate to feed a young family perhaps doing consulting work on a car or some other conveyance totally unrelated to motorcycling. . . . is the model on his desk a hint of something that perhaps slipped by our keen eyes? It's nice, by gosh, to finally meet someone who's seen the DVD and can share the FACTS with me. The internet is an imaginary place where folks can believe what they want . . . I believe I'll go running, come home and have breakfast. Go get'em tiger. Court | ||
| Court |
>>>>but a lack of money/support from the corp appears to have been Okay . . . let's assume for the sake of discussion that the $12,000,000 a year wasn't enough. What sum of money do you think would have been sufficient to properly fund a race effort? | ||
| Kuuud |
Road Rods have been around since about '04 as a kit. Somerset, PA HD/Buell has had one on their floor for at least that long. Here is a pic I took at the boardwalk bike show at Daytona this year. It was entered by San Diego HD.  | ||
| Swordsman |
On the whole documentary issue, what's so difficult to believe about a cover up? Big companies do it all the time. Hell, even the NEWS can't be trusted to tell the truth without a spin anymore. Producing a "documentary" would be a cakewalk for a behemoth like H-D. What would be the benefit to claiming the VR motor as a Buell design? None that I can see, unless it was simply for the sake of being honest. ~SM | ||
| Tom_b |
O.k court with your sarcasm being noted as usual. But if the timeline is correct 1987 buell designed the vr1000. it wasn't on the track till 1994 which by then Buell was 49% owned by H/D. Maybe part of the purchase was for the vr1000 technology? then in 1998 the rest of buell was sold to h/d making it a full part of them. With that buyout how much of the old tech was also bought out? then in 2001 when the vr1000 was finally retired h/d decided to use the vr1000 for a streetbike after you say Erik was burned by h/d. Or was the vrod a complete new ground up design. If the vrod engine was a new design and buell was owned by h/d wouldn't that make it an h/d design? H/d's Himmler like publicists sure did go to a lot of trouble to suppossedly cover all this up. By the way I don't believe everything I read or see on the web. Why should I believe you? The basic problem was when the vr1000 was designed it was a world class bike, but by the time it hit the track it had been surpassed by the japanese. As far as leasing space to Porsche for R&D, why wouldn't they have just shipped over a couple of guys with engines. Seems would be the cheaper alternative. Nobody said porsche designed the engine, just refined it. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Ahhh, but who designed the black helicopters used in every conspiracy theory? Hmmmm? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Someone's channeling Rocket. Ever wonder why a company would do a Discovery Channel documentary? Would the motivation be for marketing or real information? Do you believe the HD faithful would be impressed or dismayed that Buell had any involvement with the V-Rod motor's historical development? | ||
| Court |
And why would a motorcycle company have a subsidiary entitled "Harleywood"? Enquiring minds want to know. this discussion should make some of my meetings next week a bit more . . . well "animated" |
