| Author | Message | ||
     07xb12scg |
I searched BadWeb and did find some threads, but none of them had Court's input. My bike never consumed a drop of oil from brand new to about 1,100 miles. It was then taken in for service and the dealer put in Syn3. Now my bike eats Syn3 like it's candy. I have not found a leak and with the amount it consumes (about 200mL per 110 miles) I think I would notice the leak. Is there a valid reason for this happening? And how can it be fixed? It pisses me off. It goes into the dealer Monday for this problem and I'm about to tell them to switch it back to petroleum oil. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Do you keep it filled to the very top mark? I thought I read that consumption goes up when you have the level at the upper mark. Of course I could be wrong..... | ||
| Court |
The first thing I would do is make the switch back to a petroleum based oil in an effort to see if the increased consumption seems to be related to the type of oil. I'd gather data and look at it very carefully. Sometimes these things are not quite as cut and dried as they first appear. Increased consumption is a result, you need to determine the cause. Frankly, I've always run synthetics in my cars but have never switched in the bikes. No particular reason, but I've always, right or wrong, comforted myself that any quality oil is pretty good and at the intervals I change at any differences are pretty meaningless. That, admittedly, is a very myopic view and I don't ride the mega-miles I used to. I may when I get my new bike.  | ||
| Crusty |
Which new bike? The "new" S2, or the new Ulysses? I bet you're going to fall in love with the S2 again. I also think that if you get a Uly, you'll be thinking of riding to Ushuaia. Sure sounds like a "win-win" situation to me! | ||
| 07xb12scg |
When I got the bike from the dealer when it was new the oil was filled to the top of the operating range when hot. I have read that keeping the level near the top could cause oil consumption, but I didn't find this true with petroleum based oil. Now my bike eats oil no matter if it's filled to the very top, the middle, or even at the bottom of the operating range. | ||
| Mbohmann |
I run Schaeffer's synthetic blend in my Bobcats, my diesel truck and my Komatsu excavator. Never had a problem. I had an experience similar to yours when I put their 5W30 into the ol' lady's Blazer. Almost burned up the engine because we had never needed to check the oil before. It used 3+ qts. in 5K miles, not as bad as your situation but it had never used ANY before that. I put the same syn. blend in again and the oil usage stopped. Oil people have told me this will sometimes happen even with mineral oils. An engine "gets used to" a certain lube. I would say to nurse it along for a while. If the problem continues; try a different oil. Don't give up on synthetic. It's wonderful stuff, expecially for air-cooled engines. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Yes, I do want to stick to synthetic if possible, but not if it continues to eat so much of it. As I said, it goes to the dealer Monday and I'll let them deal with it. I'm just looking for some "ammunition" I guess. I forgot to state it here, but the bike has also been "chattering" a lot under full-throttle acceleration below 4,000 RPMs. I don't ever remember it doing this either unless I accelerated hard below 2,500 RPMs. | ||
| Damnut |
I usually go through ~1 quart of Syn 3 in-between oil changes. My bike has been "eating" oil ever since I got it. I've been using Syn3 since ~3000 miles and the bike's got over 17K on it now. Dunno where it's going but it's going somewhere.............. I do notice that it will eat more oil if I keep the engine higher revving. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Higher revving causes more "puke" through the breathers. My Evo will actually hork it all over my right saddlebag if I'm really movin' (like when I rode to FL a couple years ago, 12 hours averaging 80). Another thing that causes consumption is hammering a bike that's not fully warmed up - when cold there's more gap around the rings which lets oil past. If you're on the rev limiter as soon as you're off the starter, you may want to consider letting it warm up longer (I found that one out the hard way years ago). In the end though, every bike is different. Tolerance ranges are just that - a range of acceptable tolerances. Some bikes are set up tight; some are looser. All are "acceptable"...but different. Changing oil "flavors" in an older, higher mileage bike can also cause problems as seals and gaskets get conditioned to one type of oil, and suddenly have to hold back a different concoction. Much as I'd love to change over my FLHP...it's got 60k on the odometer and I know I'd end up with leaks all over the place. Consistency is key here - if your bike has "always used oil" but at the same rate...let it go and keep it full. If your consumption suddenly skyrockets, find the cause and fix it. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
My consumption has went from zero to a ton after the switch to Syn3. I haven't yet check the airbox for oil, but maybe I'll do that today. Even checking the air filter is a little bit of a PITA on these things. Hopefully this is made easier in the future. And I always let my bike idle and warm up for at least a minute and almost always ride it around for a few minutes before ever really cracking on it and revving it high. My warm up time, riding style, or nothing else has change. The only difference is the 1,000 mile service, the new voltage regulator that went bad, and the switch to Syn3. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Here is the log I have on my bike's oil consumption so far.  | ||
| 07xb12scg |
So what do you guys think about this oil consumption? Maybe I'm mistaken, but as of now it seems that my bike is consuming less oil than it did when I first switched to Syn3. Is there any reason for this? | ||
| Crusty |
So what do you guys think about this oil consumption? My '78 Shovelhead used to consume a quart of oil every 400-500 miles. That was normal. Oil consumption has improved over the years. Right now, my Uly has used 1/2 quart in 2,000 miles (I'm changing it tonight). I don't worry about it. I check the oil every few hundred miles, and just ride. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Well see I'm confused and concerned that the oil consumption when from zero when using petroleum oil to a quart in 1,000 miles or so with Syn3. That's a drastic change and there has to be a reason for it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
It looks like your bike drank some oil right after the changeover and then it calmed down - not unheard of right after a change. The seals had started to "set" for dino oil then you put in slicker stuff. Took a bit (think second break in period) but the seals - at least from your chart above - seem to have finished or slowed down and you should be fine from here on out. You're doing the best thing you can - riding the bike and keeping an eye on the fluid level. Keep doing that. If consumption goes up, look for a cause. If it tapers off...you win. | ||
| Ridrx |
07, I wonder if the high oil consumption could be valve guides and or rings...giving you the additional driveability issues you've been experiencing? I switched to Syn3($in3?) at 500 miles and have never had to add oil in 7k miles. Has anyone done a comp./leakdown test? Have you checked the plugs for fouling? O2 sensor for contaminates? IIRC, I read somewhere(maybe KV) that these engines can also leak engine oil internally into the transmission and/or primary...might be worth checking the other fluids for high levels. Just a couple suggestions. BTW... how often and for how long do you ride it? Engines that see infrequent use or lots of short trips tend to use more oil and foul plugs easier. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
This problem hasn't been looked into at all by myself or my dealer. It was supposed to go in Monday, but it's done nothing but storm all week long. Usually the shortest ride I take is the 20 minute commute to work. On the weekends I usually ride at least an hour at a time. As far as how often I ride it - I try to get it out Saturday and Sunday and I ride it to work as often as I can. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
OK this just confuses the hell out of me. At 3543 miles the oil was just below the operating range. I added ~100mLs of oil and that took it up to the bottom line of the operating range when cold. I rode the bike 120.9 miles (3614mi on odometer) and the oil was at the bottom of the second X from the top of the operating range. I let the bike sit for a couple of hours and went out and rode 63.3 miles (3677) and now the oil is all the down at the "0" in the 150mL text. I'm just baffled! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Check your oil at the same time, every time. Pick either hot readings or cold readings. I always check hot, and IIRC your owners manual should have a recommended check time as well. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
I do normally check it hot. This is the norm for any vehicle that I've ever dealt with. I do know some older cars had a cold and hot range on the dipstick. The reason it says cold on my spreadsheet is because I checked the oil hot and found it to be low. I added oil, sometimes the next day, and I checked it before I went out on a ride which obviously meant the oil was cold. | ||
| Dbird29 |
You have more than a hobby, you have an obsession. You just need to keep checking it the same way every time and be happy in the knowledge you have the most monitored oil level of any Buell in history. Is there a hyphen in "anal-retentive"? | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Nah I'm actually not anal retentive at all. The problem is it went from eating no oil to a lot. This isn't good and no oil in an engine is bad. I feel like I need to stay on top of this issue. I went from checking the oil maybe once a month to checking it after every ride because it seems that I need to add oil every couple of rides now. | ||
| Starter |
You may as well buy a couple of quarts and live with topping it up. Mine has been baffling me as well over the past 2 months and I have just learn to accept the mystery. I went on a long haul of 650km (18,000km total) and used 1/2 a quart. Damn never did that before, so I topped it up to the full level when hot. Went for a few day trips in the meantime of between 150-200km and in sum nearly the 650km or the original trip and no decline in oil. Some of these trips really hard miles in the mountains. Ok so rode back home and no usage. Was nearing the 20,000km mark by now. Took it up the twistys near my home and used 250ml in 150km. Started to worry about it but the missus has told me to "fill it & forget it" or "sell it". It's not just a Buell thing either as the old mans R1150RS has the same inconsistant usage patterns. I just keep an eye on and check it every tank of gas. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
You may as well buy a couple of quarts and live with topping it up. That is not an acceptable solution in any way, shape, or form. It's a new engine, it should NOT eat oil. | ||
| Jflaig |
I talked to a couple of the factory guys on the tours, and asked about this condition. None of the guys had "officially" heard anything about this, even on their endurance test models. The one "out there" suggestion, besides letting a dealer have it for ?? time to find an answer, is that the oil drain holes in the top of te head might not be large enough to drain the oil fast enough to keep up with the flow, and hense it flows in the only direction possible, out the PCV hose to the filter plate. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Tim, Another thing worth doing would be to always check your oil with the bike parked in the same location, and verify that location is level. I noticed a big difference on my Uly with the bike parked on what seemed to be a fairly level location (a gravel parking lot) last week. When I initially checked the oil, it was barely touching the bottom of the dipstick (below the "add" range). I pushed the bike a few feet away to a location that looked a little better, and when I checked the oil it was at the middle of the dip stick. About an hour later, I checked the oil with the bike parked on a level concrete slab at a gas station and the oil was right at the bottom of the "add" range. Do you think there's any chance this could be at least a part of your problem? | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Another thing worth doing would be to always check your oil with the bike parked in the same location, and verify that location is level. Do you think there's any chance this could be at least a part of your problem? I always check my bike's oil while parked in the garage. And there are marks on the ground where I put the kickstand so it's always very close to the same spot. So no, this could not be a part of the problem. I am 100% sure about that. | ||
| Cross_country_buell |
XB12scg, I joined this forum SPECIFICALLY to comment on your problem. I have the same bike as you, but an '05. I also have been pulling my hair out over the same exact problem as you. The bike was just guzzling oil. Sometimes not as bad as others. I also have about 5 k on the bike. I however changed to Royal Purple instead of the syntec. Look back at the last thing Ridrx said. Did you happen to change your transmission fluids at the same time? I did and heard noises comming from the tranny (just today) as well as harder shifting and decreased power. I pulled the cover to check the fluid level in the primary and oil just came pouring out. The dealer messed up some gasket or seal and that is where its going. Bringing it back to them tomorrow and they are getting an earfull, you can bet on that. I would also bet any amount of money this is your problem. The level should just reach the bottom of the clutch. Let me know if this is it. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
No, I didn't check the transmission oil level. Do I need a new gasket everytime I open the "trap door"? | ||
| Cross_country_buell |
Nope, just don't rough it up. | ||
| Cross_country_buell |
And the bike should be strait up and down (or close) when you check it. So did the dealer change the tranny oil at the same time as the cross over to synthetic or around the same time you noticed the oil consumption? | ||
| Ridrx |
All fluids SHOULD have been changed(doesn't mean they DID it) at the 1k serv. I've reused the gasket once without incident, but wouldn't do it if one was readily avail.(should be). Hope you guys can both get your problems sorted out. Good luck. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If you have an engine oil usage issue and your tranny turns out to be over-full, odds are the crankshaft left-end seal has gone bad and is allowing engine oil to be pumped into the primary. Cross_country, if this is the problem on your bike, it wouldn't be your dealer's fault. They wouldn't and couldn't get at that seal unless they pulled the primary cover, chain and sprockets. Note that the transmission oil level should be checked with the bike sitting upright & level, not on the kickstand. Tim, of all the controversies about synthetic oil, I think it's pretty well established that synthetic oil is more likely to leak through a seal than conventional oil. The same properties that make it flow really well and bond to engine parts also make it easier for it to leak through seals. If you have a bad or marginal crank seal, that could be where it's going. | ||
| Cross_country_buell |
Yeah, they were adamant this morning that it wasn't there fault. I believe and forgive them. but, this means that there was excessive pressure in the crank to cause the rupture. I have found some info saying a clogged or insufficient flow through the breather may be the culprit. Any suggestions on that topic? |
