| Author |
Message |
    
Davegess
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:05 am: | 
|
The Barton is an amazing story (Rocket you need to write that up and send it to me); penniless racers taking on the world, obsessed Welshman living in a church, obsessed Americans working in a barn, much tilting at windmills, and just enough success to make you wonder "what if"
Qualifying for a GP with a bike and engine you built yourself is quite a feat. Winning a race at the IOM is also quite a feat.
I have my doubts about the Suzuki sabotage story; it reeks of sour grapes and excuse. I don't doubt that it make sense to those who were there but not to me.
The whole Barton effort was doomed by lack of money. The chassis was OK considering that it was a homebuilt with no testing or computer analysis behind it. The engine was immensely powerful and very, very unreliable (I have talked with several people who attempted to race them in cars, the universal opinion was, to be polite, not good).
What opinion Erik expresses is likely somewhat dependent his mood; if he is thinking broken ribs, high speed tank slappers and bankruptcy he will use different words than when he is thinking about just how fast the thing was. Perhaps as he gets older the pure Quixoteness of the whole thing colors his opinion.
It was a very long way from being a competitive motorcycle when he bought it (Erik's would not express it that way  ) and had become very competitive by the time the rug was pulled out from under him.
This is not to take a away from what Dyson did. He just did not have the resources to do anymore. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:44 am: |
|
Great story and I'd love to read it . . . we made our bad luck the old fashioned way . . . we engineered it!
 |
Skully
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 01:50 pm: |
|
On a Buell enthusiast's forum, I would consider that to be a compliment.
Amen.
Sean, you have often caused me to rethink my positions on many subjects. That is a good thing. However, I have to ask, are you really so bored that you continue to come to a site where the owner and many of the participants are Buell fans and expect them to be otherwise? Maybe you just need a hug.
 |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:36 pm: |
|
If you ain't brave enough to put your name to your words, shut the f up!
Now we know why your called Mr. Grumpy  |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:46 pm: |
|
Hugs accepted.
On a Buell enthusiast's forum, I would consider that to be a compliment.
And Apartheid was just fine in South Africa? Was such, a compliment too?
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:49 pm: |
|
I'd suggest folks offended by anonymous posts do what I do with the TV . . simply don't read them.
Anonymous posts are excusable. Rocket's aren't. Good ole American politics at work on the BadWeB. Gotta love it.
Rocket |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 04:41 pm: |
|
Grump,
Complaint noted and not entirely invalid in my view. But please from now on consider the posts by anonymi to reflect my own personal approval. Does that make it better? I'm willing to allow some very good folks to blow off steam anonymously where they otherwise are entirely unable to do so. I wish they wouldn't, but I cannot blame them one bit. They can dish out as good as they get.
Every single anonymi when asked, has honored my requests--I've made a number of them--concerning content posted here.
That is not true of my "friend" Sean. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 04:45 pm: |
|
Keith (Skully),
"Sean, you have often caused me to rethink my positions on many subjects. That is a good thing. However, I have to ask, are you really so bored that you continue to come to a site where the owner and many of the participants are Buell fans and expect them to be otherwise? Maybe you just need a hug. "
That would be a good beginning. 
You rock Skully!  |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
|
"And Apartheid was just fine in South Africa? Was such, a compliment too?"
Why not just call me "Hitler" while you are at it?
Let's put this in perspective shall we?
By seeking to foster a...
fun (not miserable),
thoughtful (not inconsiderate),
informative (not unfriendly),
positive (not relentlessly negative)
and constructive (not naysaying)
place for Buell enthusiasts to visit on the web--by seeking to foster a place like that, apparently in your mind BadWeB as a Buell enthusiasts' forum is on par with a government of racist bigotts waging brutal inhuman oppression upon a majority of its populace.
Considering my own lengthy, and personally intimate ties to BadWeB, then it seems impossible to deny that you must also equate me to such miserableness. Some friend.
Thanks a lot Sean. You are a real gem, you are.   |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 05:40 pm: |
|
Blake, I think I have heard stories about you sporting BadWeb arm bands and sponsoring Buell Youth rallies.
Does this mean Sean will need to start wearing a yellow troll symbol on his clothing?
I think fanaticism is best judged by the impact it has on others. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 07:13 pm: |
|
Good ole American politics at work on the BadWeB
It is an American owned and moderated Forum about an American motorcycle. Would you prefer we sing the praises of Hyosung motorcycles? |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
|
apparently in your mind BadWeB as a Buell enthusiasts' forum is on par with a government of racist bigotts waging brutal inhuman oppression upon a majority of its populace.
Seeing as you put it so succinctly Blake, no not at all!
Rocket |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 01:13 am: |
|
Sean, please quit being an •••••••.
rt |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 04:26 am: |
|
Glad you appreciate the concern Blake. |
Steveshakeshaft
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 05:44 am: |
|
Barton used a Spondon chassis. Very well respected racing platform in the 1970's. That's why the bikes were known a Spartons. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 06:35 am: |
|
I'm not sure the bike they ran at the 1976 GP had a Spondon built frame.
Bill (Spondon) told me he built a few initial frames that found their way into what became Spartons, but later on Barton he thought had started building their own frames as they could no longer afford his services. The 76 GP was around the time of the Silver Dream Racer, and Spondon didn't build anything as late as 1976 for Barton if my memory is correct.
I have some chassis info Bill provided me with somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
Rocket |
Steveshakeshaft
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 07:00 am: |
|
You could be right Rocket. The three cylinder water cooled Suzuki based bikes (350's and 500's) used IIRC basically 250/350 TZ chassis built by Spondon.
I also recall the "Silver Dream" as in the film, bike being a 750cc machine. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 03:41 pm: |
|
I was surprised to find that a lot of cheating went on in those days, and 750cc 500's were not uncommon on the grids.
Rocket |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 02:11 pm: |
|
Is it just me, or is this thing not amazingly similar to the British bike?
http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3 &article_id=364 |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 03:33 pm: |
|
It's the same Spirit ES1 bike Hugh. Nice find and thanks for the link!
That final drive looks to me like under engine braking scenarios the rear of the bike will be pulled down, a good thing for optimum braking. Interesting.
quote:Engine tune is up to the buyer’s wallet, but 240 mph is talked about as a possibility with a 210-hp motor. So is a cost between $330,000 and $1.5 million per bike!
About what I figured. LOL. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 04:28 pm: |
|
I was surprised to find that a lot of cheating went on in those days
Ah Rocket when we were young and naive and didn't know that people cheated. I think pro racers have been bending the rules since there were rules. Sorta the same deal as in most sports. when it is your livelihood you will do things you might not do for sport. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 05:23 pm: |
|
Like figuring out how to get 130 RWHP out of a 600cc Supersport bike. How many supersport bike owners would pay big money to get that kind of performance with just some cam timing tinkering, a new chip, and exhaust. |
Doerman
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 05:45 pm: |
|
Two chains!!!
A dream come true for the chain gang! (sorry, could not help myself)
Asbjorn |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 06:25 pm: |
|
How much of an HP hit could one expect with such a drive chain set-up?
Looks like (to me) a lot going on, before the power gets to the pavement. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 03:51 am: |
|
Glitch, it'll be plenty enough,
I watched the Sidecar TT races, 3 fat wheels, a carbon fibre & tube chassis & 2 people, all pushed along by a 600cc IL4, at scary speeds.
Now if I can just get a street-legal version...
Darling, you always said you wanted to come riding with me, hold on tight now ....... |
|
