| Author |
Message |
    
No_rice
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 01:00 pm: | 
|
so i am really not looking forward to that timing cup mod. it doesnt sound very simple, but i just could be reading to much into it also.
would it be simpler to just sell the xb and pro series blast cams that i have and buy a set of 04 sporty cams that are already set up the way i need? the way it sounds they are the same profile as the xb ones but the way it works with the timing cup is correct. then i would just need to put the head and piston on. use the stock push rods and run the S/E ignition on it at maybe 7300. come up with an exhaust and do something with the airbox also i guess. |
No_rice
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 01:25 pm: |
|
an after thought, has anyone tried fitting an XB timing cup in place of the blast one since that SHOULD be matched to the cams? but the cam cover is different so i dont know if it would work. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 07:21 pm: |
|
Hey Tim if there is any machining type job you don't feel comfortable with you can always send it down to me.
You'd just need to send me the stock cam w/cup and the firebolt cam. I'd do the rest.
layout is fairly simple with a reference part and dial indicators to ensure both are timed correctly to the cam.
I'd even be able to weld up the original notch for you.
I'm sure we could work something out 
(Message edited by diablobrian on May 15, 2007) |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 08:02 pm: |
|
I dont know why they had so much trouble setting it up unless it wasnt a stock XB top end. It really does 'bolt right on'.
The XB timing cup has more than 2 timing cutouts in it, so it wont work (bought one!).
It would be simpler to use the SE XL'04 cams but I think the cost of more cams would be far more than spending the $50 for the timing cup (or getting a friend to weld one up).
In reality the only reason you need to modify the timing cup is because you cant rotate the ignition module far enough to match up the timing. Unfortunately there arent any bosses on the cam cover to drill more mounting holes for the module plate, so the timing cup has to be modified. If you have a blank timing cup, you just need to cut a hole in the right spot. Fairly simple really as the engine doesnt care where the cutout is, it just has to hit the timing pick up at the right spot.
I used adjustable pushrods and Jims lifters. Earlier Badweb discussion (from reliable sources) says the stock lifters and pushrods will work (one pushrod is longer though).
I am currently running a bone stock XB head up to 7500rpm and I havent had any issue with valve adjustment. The modified XB head I was using needed regular adjustment. I prefer the adjustable pushrods because it makes cam changes easier and engine diagnostics easier.
My current plan is to install the XB cams in my street bike and see for myself it it does work with the stock pushrods and lifters and sort out the timing cup issue. Got all the parts, just not the time.
I'm happy to share any info I can. |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
|
Not to throw in a wild card but...If the Pro Series cams are as gentle in profile as the XB cams (my guess is they are) then you could bolt the PS cams right in, with the XB top end, adjustable pushrods, SE ignition and still have the 7500 rpm redline with good power. If that all works, throwing in the XB cams later, if desired, should be a snap! |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 09:29 pm: |
|
The cams have a low lift in comparison - stick with the XB.
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 12:58 am: |
|
My point being is that if you've already got both sets of cams (I assume used) and you're worried about the XB cam/timing set up, you can throw in the sure thing of the PS cams. Then if it works, and you've got the adjustable pushrods, tackling the XB cam/timing install is greatly simplified. You could even leave the stock cams in and change everything else.
Stock XB beehive valve springs are good for the 7500 rpm with the XB cams. I'm only guessing that the Pro Series cams ramp up as gently as the XB's. |
No_rice
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:50 pm: |
|
i dont have much option but to get this thing together at some point now! the person that originally was trying to make this set up run(he honestly is a VERY good mechanic on anything with a motor usually, and is one of the 50 master tech's that exist) all but tells me i cant make it work with mostly bolt in stuff. says i would need a new carb, and says his biggest problem was not being able to adjust the timing curve i think.
-------------------------------------------
pro series blast cams
lift@valve .498"/.498"
duration@.53
intake: .228degree
exhaust: .238degree
timing@.53 lift open/close
intake: 16degree btdc/32degree abdc
exhaust: 43degree bbdc/15degree atdc
tdc lift@valve
intake: .163"
exhaust: .146"
-------------------------------------------
04 later xl performance cams
lift@valve .551"/.551"
duration@.53
intake: .249degree
exhaust: .249degree
timing@.53 lift open/close
intake: 25degree btdc/44degree abdc
exhaust: 59degree bbdc/10degree atdc
tdc lift@valve
intake: .197"
exhaust: .122"
-------------------------------------------
04 later xl high output cams
lift@valve .575"/.575"
duration@.53
intake: .260degree
exhaust: .266degree
timing@.53 lift open/close
intake: 28degree btdc/52degree abdc
exhaust: 57degree bbdc/29degree atdc
tdc lift@valve
intake: .228"
exhaust: .221"
i dont have specs for the xb cams, but supposedly one set of those 04 and later sporty cams has the same specs.
aside from the whole timing cup deal, i should be able to use the stock lifters and push rods. i have the adjustable crane push rods but would really like to use the stock if possible and not have to mess with adjusting push rods ever as it gets ridden. it should even run with the stock timing module correct? atleast to test things out for a bit. obviously i would want to upgrade to the S/E one to get the full potential of the set up and to increase the rev limit. what is stock rev limit on a blast?
i have been doing more research on the timing cup deal and even took the blast apart again enough so i could actually sit and look at things. i think i am getting a SLIGHTLY better understanding of what would have to be done atleast, lol.
there is no way i can let this go with out making it a good running functional bike. i mean give me a break, if i can figure out how to build jet engine bikes from scratch i should be able to figure out a single cylinder!! |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 01:19 am: |
|
SE ignition would help that.
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 02:17 am: |
|
The 04 XL performance cams are the XB grind.
Part of the 'Blast experience' is finding out that V-twin mechanics dont know how to work on a Blast!!!(thats just the way it seems-dealerships panic at the mere mention of the word Blast!).
There is no reason that any of the parts you have shouldnt work. To keep things simple just do the head and piston, then change the other parts one at a time. If someone else had this much trouble assembling it, I'd go with the adjustable pushrods. That way you can look at it and see if the valves are too tight-you can also change the cams at will. If you have valve adjustment/clearance problems with the stock pushrods you'll have no way to diagnose or fix it. Adjusting them is easy and I seriously doubt with a stock XB head you'll rarely ever have to adjust them.
I'm pretty sure I ran my XB top end with the stock ignition and cams first (I'm sure the cams were installed later).
I'll give you all the info I've got, there's no secrets on doing this.
You will need to make an upper tie bar mount as the XB & Blast heads are different. A simple bent piece of angle iron works well. Some run without it. XB top end must use an XB piston.
Seriously, the SE XL performance '04 cams, XB top end, SE ignition bolt right on. Carb needs to be jetted leaner. Thats it.
I'd install everything and run those stock cams up to 7500 rpm. When it works, pop in the XB cams. |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 02:31 am: |
|
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/83121.html#POST185050 |
No_rice
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
|
just so you guys know i appreciate all the info!
he spent some time and made a decent top motor mount and still has it sitting here. he keeps everything... so i can get ahold of that also.
i would need to rejet it leaner though? i would have assumed it would need more with the higher flow and rpm's? but what do i know! |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 02:45 pm: |
|
Leaner is correct - the hi-comp. pistons are designed for the head - unlike the generic Blast piston, which was used in Sportsters.
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Gearheaderiko
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 01:37 am: |
|
Concur! The XB combustion chamber is more efficient than the Blasts. If you get a 'matched' piston for the Blast head (like EZ has) that also uses a leaner mixture (better combustion). |
No_rice
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:58 am: |
|
that might have been another problem they were having with it then. they even tried a different carb in it and added more fuel to the mix.
if it was extremely over jetted that would also help explain why it couldnt hardly get its self going from a stop and bogged down, but if you could get the rpms up it would hit about 4500/5000 it would run like a raped ape! |
|
