| Author |
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Olinxb12r
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 11:34 am: | 
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Here is a couple pics of mine for you guys. From my experience so far it has been great. I have a couple things left to do in order to have the bike ready for the season, but I'm sure I'll be glad I spent the money in July and August here in KC.
Get in touch with a BadWeB sponsor for a RSS.
Rob is no sponsor.
(Message edited by Glitch on April 05, 2007) |
Mesafirebolt
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |
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I've had my bike (12R) in 2 Ultra hot Arizona summers, The first summer my fan was on all the time. I couldn't afford the RSS so I removed the small deflector that was there. I had done some testing with a fan to see where the air would go. With the plate on, it caused enough disturbance to dam the air at the front of it, with it removed air flowed somewhat freely over both heads. I left it off and my fan DOES run less. I'm pretty sure a RSS would work even better. I'm not trying to say that I'm a better bike designer just that my independent testing revealed the turbulence ahead of the "plate". My 2 cents. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 02:12 pm: |
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The big negative I hear is they do not work real well at parade speeds.
Wouldn't consider this a negative, just science. A fan is a more effective method at walking/parade pace. However, I believe the RSS is the more effective method of cooling at highway speeds. |
Treadmarks
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 02:51 pm: |
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Even at parade or heavy traffic speeds, the RSS allows the fan to pull cooler away from the headers.
Before the RSS while in heavy traffic the fan would stay on until I got home. Now with the RSS the fan cycles like it should. |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 05:32 pm: |
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It definitely helps cut down on the frequency at which the fan comes on, especially with newer bikes, but it doesn't stop the fan from coming on. So, I guess this is why Mr. Buell, if he indeed said what is proclaimed by some to have said, feels it's a waste of money. It is mighty expensive just to cut down on some fan noise, although to me it was worth it. I hate that dang fan !! |
Aussie_xb12ss
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 11:45 pm: |
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I didn’t put it on just to cut down on noise.
Why have the fan going if an extra scoop can have the fan working at a bare minimum.
I prefer to have the bike running cooler the old fashioned air cooled way than to have to rely on a fan to cool it down.
I imagine it could get nasty if someone’s fan breaks down in scorching temperatures?
I still think it’s cheap compared to the price of other accessories people add to their bikes.
And it looks a hell of a lot better.
(Message edited by Aussie_XB12SS on April 04, 2007) |
Nuerburgringer
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 12:20 am: |
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Sure wish I could see some objective data on this topic, rather than claims. |
Mesafirebolt
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:03 am: |
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I'll have to admit, when I did my testing I did NOT have the fan operating. I can understand that once the cylinder gets to the point it trips the fan on, the baffle on the right side would keep the airflow confined tightly over the jugs just like a reciprocating aircraft engine does on a small airplane, THAT being said, without the baffle in place more air reaches it at cruising speeds. While I'm stopped for any length of time while its 110 outside it would help direct the airflow where it's needed. BUT the RSS looks SO cool, there has to be some props for coolness, especially on our bikes! The Messerschmitt BF 109 German Fighter of WWII fame comes to mind with the single side scoop... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:41 am: |
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Sure wish I could see some objective data on this topic, rather than claims.
Me too. |
Roadrailer
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 10:25 am: |
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I think Buell's point in this matter is that the engine does not require the RSS to operate properly in its specified temperature range. The bike doesn't need it to cool properly.
The RSS is successful in reducing fan usage; but that is a cosmetic concern, not a functional one.
I wouldn't mind seeing some data as well, out of curiosity. |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 11:26 am: |
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IMO the fan is for low speed riding, traffic. The RSS at low speed kills air velocity over the rear cylinder. That equals less air flow. Now the engine is heating up and cooling down more frequently. I think Mr. Buell knows exactly what he is talking about. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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I'm just thinking that if the RSS worked so well, then Buell would be selling one versus letting the aftermarket guys get all that money. It's just a piece of molded plastic that they could have made for a few bucks and sell for a couple hundred.
Could be sold as a "performance cooling scoop". Really no different than the "Buell Pro" bits.
There has to be a reason why it isn't on there from the factory or offered as an option. |
Mesafirebolt
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 01:26 pm: |
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In response to Trac95ker, the inside of the RSS is still performing the same basic function as the old baffle, so it shouldn't "HURT" anything, and they DO look cool, at least to some of us. |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:06 pm: |
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I am game....So someone work up a testing procedure. Or I can work one up myself.
I imagine that you would need to know ambient temp, Rear head temp, Riding speed. I could even record the air velocity thru the ducts.
What else would be pertinent? |
Kdan
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:35 pm: |
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I don't need a right side scoop.
My XB9S has a fan! |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:37 pm: |
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Maybe do a before and after oil analysis. Do 5000 miles without the RSS and then do 5000 miles with it. The oil will tell you what's going on inside the engine. If you see no difference in the oil, then it's really just cosmetic.
Sure, the scoop may make the engine run cooler, but how much cooler? If it only drops the temp enough to turn the fan off, would the previous temp have caused the oil to suffer viscosity breakdown? Would the drop in temp using the scoop save the oil? What if you change oil in 3000 mile intervals as I do? I swear, I could dump my used oil into my car and run it another 5000 miles. It isn't even that dirty when I drain it out. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:43 pm: |
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Chad, that's a really good idea. A good UOA would also prove if there's any downside to running a right side scoop. I think someone's suggested the scoop may make the rear head run too cold- this should show up as increased fuel contamination in the oil or increased wear products. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:55 pm: |
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An oil analysis is sort of like drawing blood in a human. It will show lots of stuff.
Other than tearing down the engine and measuring things, it's the best way to tell if your engine is healthy. |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:58 pm: |
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I think the scoop looks cool too. My point is at parade speed the fan is doing all the cooling. The fan is made to flow a certain CFM. The shroud or intake to the fan has to be built or tuned to maximize air velocity. Adding the RSS looks cool but it decreases efficiency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_Principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons_law |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 04:06 pm: |
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That's what I've been saying. To say, "the bike runs cooler because the fan doesn't run as much" doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. I want to know how much cooler, and whether it is actually a beneficial improvement or not.
I'm not saying it's not, but if my hard earned cash only buys me a piece of plastic and keeps my fan running less (which I can't hear with earplugs in), then it's the law of diminishing return for me. I'd rather spend my bucks on gas and tires and let the fan run all day long.
I really have no personal opinion on the RSS. The bike looks fine without it, and it looks good with it. I don't mind the fan, in fact, I never notice it until I shut the bike off and it runs maybe 30 seconds to 1 minute. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 04:19 pm: |
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As I put more miles on my XB9S I found the fan runs less and less.
In fact, once I thought it might be malfunctioning because it didn't come on at all during and after a long ride.
But it was fine, it runs periodically when stuck in traffic or very hot out.
I don't have a RSS and don't think I need one. |
Mesafirebolt
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 04:29 pm: |
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Not to HiJack but anyone have this issue? Sometimes when I shut the bike off, I expect the fan to come on but it doesn't )maybe a hot day or a long ride). So I cycle the key and eng run switch and it will come on for 30 seconds or so. |
Terribletim
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 04:39 pm: |
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I'm thinkin' 'bout puttin' a RSS on my helmet. You think it will cool my frustration with cagers? |
Sonny
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 07:53 pm: |
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Here's a data point: My fan hardly ever comes on in parade mode, 80 mph blasting, or anywhere in between.
Here's another: I put mine on at around 5K. Rode the bike on Saturday - fan on almost constantly. Put the RSS on, rode the bike on Sunday (same weather conditions) - fan never came on until shutdown.
Not scientific, but it works for me. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:17 am: |
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Significant statistical uncertainties make it scientifically impossible to render any conclusions concerning the effects of an added air scoop based upon only two oil analyses from one motorcycle being run in an uncontrolled environment. Yeah, I got that out in one breath. lol.
In order to draw any meaningful scientifically supportable conclusions, you'd need a controlled environment or a huge sample population or a combination of the two. 
The one thing some may not be considering is that it can be very detrimental for an engine to run too cool. If the oil fails to reach a temperature high enough to vaporize entrained moisture, that moisture can collect, react with combustion by products to form acids and cause all kinds of serious problems, not immediately, but over time.
Might consider blocking of your RSS when ambient temperatures fall below 80oF or so. |
Watrousmark
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
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RSS rocks, I've been using one for two years now, just passed 40,000 on the way to Key West. That fan comes on when your rear head gets hot. If that scoop makes my engine last longer between rebuilds it pays for itself. If there were that many worries about running hot there would be a thermostat on the oil cooler. |
Rigman
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:00 am: |
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What we are forgetting about is the front cylinder. When you pressurize the rear of the engine compartment with a RSS, the air does not flow through the engine compartment as efficient as before. I believe if anyone tests this you will find the amount of heat dissipated from the rear cylinder will be transferred to the front cylinder from the decreased air flow through the engine compartment. If I'm correct, there is no temp. sensor on the front cylinder that trips the fan on and off. I believe if that same temp. sensor could be moved to the front cylinder (just for argument sake)after the installation of the RSS, your fan would be running the same as before the RSS. |
Kedo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:33 am: |
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Rigman- I'm no expert, but I have to disagree. The front cylinder gets a constant blast from air that blows through the forks above the fender and below the lower triple tree. I think that the front cylinder would have it's own fan if there were any chance of it cooking. |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
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The fan doesn't need to cool the engine at speed. The fan is for stop and go traffic.
With the RSS on the bike it will run cooler because there is more ram air diverted to the Heads. Thats why the fan doesn't run much after riding at speed. The engine stays within a certain temp range. When in traffic the temp can go out of normal operating range. Then the fan comes on to cool the heads. These are air cooled motors in traffic there is no air flow.
Try this, get the bike up to operating temp. Park it in the driveway. Let it idle for an hour with the RSS and then an hour without it. Record how many times the fan comes on and for how long. That should give you a rough idea if the Scoop works, with the fan being the only generator of wind for cooling. |
Sokota
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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The stock shroud is there to direct / pull air past the front head at slow speeds when fan is activated. Like a Panzer tank , VW Beetle, or lawmmower..... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 04:14 pm: |
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Letting your bike idle for an hour isn't a good idea no matter how the engine is cooled, be it air, fan, oil, or liquid. Not a good idea at all. |
Kedo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 05:03 pm: |
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I agree with u - Glitch |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 06:05 pm: |
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I agree, it's not a good idea. I wouldn't have the RSS on in traffic either. |
147db
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 05:41 pm: |
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All you need is a right side airscoop AND the FCFS™ (Fan Cooler Forcing System)... if someone can read italian here's a complete explanation:
http://www.devilstars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27 08 |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 12:22 pm: |
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If the right side scoop replicates via its inboard wall the original OEM right side ducting, then I cannot see how it would hinder the OEM cooling system performance for parked or parade duty type scenarios.
It is not logically valid to say that because the XB oil cooler lacks a thermostat there is no reason to be concerned about too cool (insufficiently hot) engine oil and associated issues.
If need be in cold conditions, it is easy enough to cover/block the oil cooler intake. I'm surprised that Buell doesn't recommend doing so. I believe that Buell does recommend reducing oil change intervals in cold weather and for riding that involves mostly short trips.
(Message edited by Blake on April 12, 2007) |
