| Author | Message | ||
     Riderbob |
Hey Folks, I need help. My Uly has what I say is a pinging problem. Dealer says no problem found, C.S. is going with them. I was told that since I have only ridden rice burners for the last 25 or so years I do'nt know how to ride a Buell. That I am being to hard on the bike. See I ride it as "hard" as my Hondas and Kawasakis and expect it to be as reliable for 40 or 50k as they were. Well lets see if you all can help, I am willing to learn if it is my fault. When riding- fully warmed here in Los Angeles - I give it some throttle while cruising along at 4000 rpm - all kinds of noises are coming from my engine. Sounds like pinging to me (marbles in a tin can). Now if I were to try to accelerate from a stop very quickly the same noises will appear. Noises are loudest the warm it gets. Only use Supreme - have tried octane boost. Anybody in LA wanna go for a ride? I just don't think the noises are normal, and would like to have some other Buell folks try it out. As I said I contacted C.S. on a conference call and they sided with the dealer. So this is my next step. Please feel free to contact me | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Compared to an IL4, aircooled engines are very noisy. To accommodate a much wider operating temperature range, the tolerances are slightly looser. That said, I think very few here "baby" their Buells. I aspire to ride mine as hard as some here do. The limitation is me, not the bike. I would do just as you have suggested and find a "seasoned" owner and let them ride your bike when warm. If it's someone who has had a pinging problem, even better. At least that way you would have a second opinion. Otherwise, I would seek one of the dealers in LA identified as being good at solving pinging issues. Have them take a look at it. If it really is pinging, I wouldn't let it go. Continue to pursue the issue. | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
What kind of oil is being run in it? The thinner the oil the louder the lovely top end is. But air cooled v-twins top ends are excessively loud. But yeah definately do comparisons. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Hello Riderbob, I am having similar issues. Whenever my Ulysses is WARM I can be riding along at 3500 rpm and accelerate moderately and it will ping. If I snap the throttle to wide open the pinging stops. It will not ping at all when the engine is cold. Before I get sucked into all the crap about these being "noisy engines" and whatnot I remind myself of the following facts: 1. I owned a Sportster long before I owned a Buell. 2. I owned a Buell long before I owned a Ulysses. 3. None of the aforementioned air cooled "Sportster-engined" motorcycles pinged. Ever. 4. My Ulysses does not ping when cold. 5. My Ulysses does not ping when cruising. 6. My Ulysses does not ping when accelerating at WOT. Now, go FIND the other threads on this board where MURRAEBUELLER has posted contact info. - he has been working on this issue. I am going to contact Buell CS per Murrae as soon as I have time to burn a day getting the bike examined. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Jmhinkle |
"What kind of oil is being run in it? The thinner the oil the louder the lovely top end is. But air cooled v-twins top ends are excessively loud. But yeah definately do comparisons." I highly disagree. I'm not looking to start any oil wars here, but I am personally running 5w-40 Rotella Syn and find the engine much quieter and much cooler. On 20w-50 my engine sounded like crap starting and like a steel box of marbles when running. On the 5w-40 it is smoother, starts easier and much quieter overall. I can here valves actuating now instead of the horrendous banging from before. Not too mention how much my fan ran on 20w-50. So far in 11 days since changing over, the fan only runs on shut off and only a total of 7 times over multiple temp ranges and riding distances. I've tried several 20w-50 oils and just think it is too heavy to properly lubricate and cool the engine. I will do a UOA on it when I change it for info for any one here that wants it. As far as pinging, my engine pings at low altitude. Have I taken it in for check out? Nope I live at 5300 ft and it never pings here so I know the dealer won't find anything and can't duplicate it. In your case, I would First find a local rider with experience in pinging on a Buell and have him confirm or deny what you hear. Then if it is confirmed as pinging, find a better dealer. (Message edited by jmhinkle on March 21, 2007) | ||
| Nutsosane |
Jim, PM if you want some answers. I had the same exact symptoms you did. NUTS | ||
| Teeps |
Bob, I'd be happy to render my opinion, on the sound of your bike's engine. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Did the dealer check or reset the timing? | ||
| Riderbob |
Thanks for the feedback folks. I am using syn oil - burning almost 2 qts between 3 k changes. I am currently at Glendale for service. Not pleased at all. Timing? I have no idea. I will be picking it up friday. I will find out about everything they have done. If anyone is close to L.A. I would love to meet'em and swap rides. Thanks again | ||
| Snowscum |
I run regular HD oil and dont use any. I tired their syn 3 for one oil change and it used a bunch and didnt run any cooler. So I went back to their regular stuff. Oh and by the way I can hear my engine clatter over my race exhaust. (Message edited by snowscum on March 23, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
Riderbob, HD engines do emit a sound very similar to light automotive pinging. It occurs at 2800-3000 rpm with when the engine is under very light load and the throttle less than 15 percent. The sound is a clacking sound which is emitted through the valve train which is located on the top of the engine. I had a severe pinging problem with my Uly. The pinging would start shortly before the "fan on" temperature which is 428F during light, moderate and full throttle. The pinging was unquestionable. Pinging differed from the valve train noise in several ways. The valve train noise was a systematic clatter and the pinging is a chaotic, high frequency clanking. Pinging has a pitch similar to a electric welding arc or the arcing of a spark across a spark plug electrode but without the perfect regularity of a timed spark. Pinging occurs only during load and the valve train noise occurs when the engine is floating and the intake manifold pressure remains high. Now here is one problem, the factory requires that the timing be adjusted according to a procedure, 1.17 on page 1-45 of the factory service manual no. 99494-06Y. That procedure requires the use of a "Digital Technician" which is a dealer only product. Most engines can be timed by adjusting the timing to a specific setting or mark instead of a procedure. Buell does not have a specific setting. That means that we, the owners, have no way to verify that the timing is actually correct or at least firing at the same point that it would fire using "digital technician". I recommend that you bring it in and call Buell Customer Service because they are still eager to find the solution. Hopefully "Ihavemanyfleas'" engine will help Buell find the solution. If not I am sure that this problem will compound with the rising temperatures of spring and summer. There are several other ways to set the timing to match their procedure. If the pinging reduces or disappears after adding HD fuel additive then it is pinging. Pinging is also caused by leaking intake manifold seals. There are ways to eliminate the pinging but at this point in time they are not factory authorized. | ||
| Riderbob |
Davo, thanks for the detail. I will be picking her up today. Buell C.S. was no help. Wanted to know why I "thought Glendale would lie to me" - well gee lets see they didn't install the safety recall they said they would, they never have had my bike ready or called me as promised. So balls in my court. If it's my style of riding, I'm told I might be "abusing" the bike. We will see. I will keep you posted. By the way the noise is when warm, 4k grand and accelerating until almost 5 k. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
burning almost 2 qts between 3 k changes.  That seems quite extreme! Carbon build up? That procedure requires the use of a "Digital Technician" which is a dealer only product. Most engines can be timed by adjusting the timing to a specific setting or mark instead of a procedure. Buell does not have a specific setting. I thought the Digital Technician just showed the state of the crank sensor, and the goal was to set the timing so it transitioned when the timing mark was centered in the window. Can't you just back probe the crank sensor w/ a DVM and see the transition? } | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just set mine on my 9sx. You don't even really need the DVM, the fuel pump will cycle on at the moment the voltage transitions. I didn't even pull the spark plugs, though that just trades one annoyance (pulling plugs) for another (fighting compression). | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Davo, Great description. Both my Buell and my old 75 Beetle clattered when the throttle is "cracked" open. I can get it to clatter if I hold the throttle "at speed", not accelerating or decelerating. I assume the reason is that the intake and exhaust velocities are at their weakest allowing the valves and lifters to move with the least amount of pressure? If I open the throttle or allow it to engine brake, I can't get it to clatter. I've never been able to get it to ping. By the descriptions I've heard, it's awful and not at all like clatter. | ||
| Dr_greg |
A year ago I also thought I had the dreaded "ping" but I retarded the spark so far that it was ridiculous and the sound was still there. So I figured it was the valvetrain noise (or whatever). Set the timing back to stock and still running strong at 25K miles. | ||
| Littlefield |
+1 on the engine noise description. I can hear something that sounds like a light ping but it's at neutral throttle. Must be them there valves. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Same here. I've heard an engine ping. I've heard my Buell ping after I got stuck for an hour in summer rush hour traffic. It knocked hard when I tried to accelerate, but within a mile of cooling air, it didn't ping anymore and I could ride normally. If your bike is pinging, there will be NO DOUBT that it's pinging. It sounds like a diesel powered jackhammer. VERY loud and the bike will loose power. | ||
| Snowscum |
And there is a lost of power when pinging. | ||
| Titus |
Riderbob, This may sound crazy but I took my Uly in for it's 5K service and mentioned that it was making a lot more racket than normal. I thought I had a lifter going down. Lots of noise around 3k RPM partial load. I also thought it was shaking a bit more than usual. Turns out it was the upper motor mount! Much better now. I also experienced a little ping but backed the timing plate by 1 millimeter (per the BadWeb method). Does anybody remember who came up with this method? This has cured the problem except in the most extreme heat conditions. | ||
| Davo |
If you go 2.5mm your Uly will never ping again. But I would try 2mm first in the event that you have had almost completely eliminated the ping with 1mm. This retard till it stops pinging is so easy even a caveman can do it but it is not factory approved. This "unauthorized" procedure combined with right side air scoop is the fix! Ping free since May of 06! FYI at 2mm counterclockwise from stock setting your engine will never fire later than 1 degree BTDC when operated below the rev limit. (Message edited by davo on March 23, 2007) | ||
| Riderbob |
Well folks just got my Uly back. Drove it from Glendale in 5 pm traffic - hit every light - fan was blazing - its what like 80+ degrees here. NOT A NOISE. All we did was change the oil and perform a 7500 mile service. This is the bike I bought. Well all I know is for now she pulls strong, no harsh noises. They test drove 70 some miles and didn't get any noise, but I had noises when I dropped it off. Well for now the problem is solved. I will be monitoring my oil consumption and will just have to bring it back if I get it into a noise issue again. Thanks for the help. | ||
| Davo |
Great news! I would be interested to see where your TDC mark is at the "fuel pump on" prompt for No. 1. If it is straight up then that is some good oil! I am glad your problem has been corrected!! (Message edited by davo on March 23, 2007) | ||
| 12x_infatuation |
Hey there, riderbob! Not sure if you followed 'an eeores tale' on advrider or not - a while back now... Anyway, from memory his oil consumption was mainly due to overfilling. You checking the dipstick on level ground and on sidestand, when real hot? | ||
| L_je |
"Riding the bike too hard"? I really hope that Buell CS didn't say that, did they? With and EFI bike, whacking the throttle open is merely a "throttle request". While a carb'ed bike would just squirt the fuel in per your wrist movement, an EFI bike has your wrist movement go into the ECM, and then into the EFI maps, and then it sends a signal to the fuel injectors, etc... If you ask for more than what the EFI curves allow for, then YOU AINT GOINNA GET IT, or at least, a properly mapped EFI shouldn't give you fuel-flow/timing combinations that lead to auto-ignition.(1) My bike pings. It pings near the fan engagement temp of ~428F. This isn't valve train noise, but, instead, auto-ignition. It's getting worse with increasing ambient temperature. You ask for acceleration, but you get a whole bunch of ping instead. Some tanks of gas do better than others. With some tanks of gas, on some days, no matter how hard I try, I cannot get the bike to ping; I may get an isolated tick or two, but nothing sustained....and then I have to fill up again...gas station roullette. My dealer's first attempt at ping resolution was rather poor. Buell CS called them, and gave them a laundry list of things to go through. I cleared out my schedule for the day, and brought my bike in. They rode it around for 15 miles in 45-50F weather and said they couldn't get it to ping (they didn't do what Buell CS asked)...I'm leaving it with them next week to take another shot at it. "Riding my bike too hard?" Wow, I'd flip out if somebody said that... ...Sorry, but I should be able to stay two seconds behind my wife's MTS 1000 without MY bike ever experiencing autoignition of the fuel-air mixture. ______________________________ (1) a knock sensor would help to put you on an alternate set of EFI maps, aka the "cheap bastard" fuel maps (for those who insist on putting 87 R/2+M/2 octane in their cars that are built around 93 R/2+M/2 fuel). Many of these "cheap bastards" are the same clueless, self-absorbed idiots who like to pilot their 4000# cages into motorcycles, because they can't be bothered to hang up their cell phone because "they are working". ...no, I'm not the least bit bitter, why do you ask?  | ||
| Riderbob |
Hey 12x - yes have checked the oil level properly. I checked it when I got in my drive and will check it - if and when it gets low, I will call Glendale up to bring it in and document it. About the time it uses oil it will then begin to make noise. I'll give it 2 -3 weeks. Weathers good so weekends will be riding longer, harder, faster. |
