| Author | Message | ||
     Racebizz |
Well, I did a couple of track days on my XB12ss and I am totally hooked now. Just incredible fun. The question or questions I have are. What should be done to my bike to make it perform better, I am not interested in engine mods. I can run in the top half of the intermediate class with my bike the way it is set up now. Which is pro-taper bars, special ops muffler, and pirelli corsa III tires & Race-Tech set my stock suspension up at the track. No re-valve just dialed it in. All the friends I do track days with have new GSXR 600 and R6's, and I want to be able to keep pace with them without having to go and buy a bike like theres. I have alot more experience then they do but work really hard to compete with there bikes. So any recommendations on setup would be totally appreciated. Thanks | ||
| Mutation_racer |
get your front shocks done by john from ctr. and contact pete from edison h-d - buell for a chain drive conversion. it will let you dial in your gearing. suspension is every thing! call me if you have any ? ask for anthony in sales 732-381-2400 ex 0 | ||
| Schmitty |
Mutation, How much is the chain conversion from Edison? I've been thinking about doing it, but they vary so much in price I'm not sure whose is the best for the money. Schmitty | ||
| Racebizz |
who is CTR? | ||
| Tenracing |
Leave your lightning just the way it is and buy my XBRR, for a REAL track bike...Posted in the XBRR page | ||
| Slaughter |
Keith, I see you're up in Paso Robles. If you have time, come down to Willow Springs this weekend, you can see some XB mods that work and some that aren't worth the money. Awesome that you're thinking of suspension first, gearing/chain - and only last thinking of motor mods. Amazing how hard it is to convince people that more motor will NOT make you a quicker rider around the track as much as better handling!!! Welcome to the madness!!! | ||
| Racebizz |
I just may come out there Slaughter.But I am riding a private track day at Buttonwillow on Monday so may stay home and play with the bike. To help slow the madness. Are you part of the Glendale group with Ernie, Mario and Dino? | ||
| Slaughter |
Yep - I've been supporting them the past 2 years even though I couldn't be racing til just last month (getting to be a long, old story) - Dino isn't going to be at the track day on Monday and that's a bummer but double bummer that he's not going to let ME ride his DUCK. Have fun! I'm busy busy busy - alarm just went off here in Texas, I hit the airport in a few hours, taking the afternoon and tomorrow off, get the bike ready, on the track tomorrow (there's an Advanced Racers Clinic at Willow Springs tomorrow) - then Saturday practice and 4 races Sunday. It's just good to be back - been a long road recovering | ||
| Mutation_racer |
his conv. is about 800 and does not need a new swingarm. it the best one i've seen yet . it will take you about a hour to do it. CTR is the best with sus. they are at all the CCS/ASRA weekends and john is super nice i'll try to get his #. | ||
| Justin_case |
Start with springs tailored to your weight. | ||
| M2guy |
My 2 cents, for what its worth, is more track time! I raced my M2, stock suspension, belt drive, almost stock motor, to several championships last year. The more you ride, the quicker you'll get. Also try reading "Twist of the wrist" This gives a good understanding on how to become faster, and doing it safely. Be safe and have fun! | ||
| Jaimec |
Don't just read the book... take Code's classes! Doing Level IV next month at Pocono Raceway! | ||
| Lightningrider |
Whats up Slaughter! Why am I not surprised to find you here. Slaughter and the rest of Buell guys at Willow are the best people that every Buell racer can have. I have been racing at WSMC with these guys and it has been a lot of fun. If I can share my experience to you about the bike I would tell you to get the best suspension that you can afford. It reduced my lap time a lot. It makes the bike easier to handle, during cornering, braking & excellerating. It takes less effort to follow your racing line. My next thing to get would be the chain conversion. I am still confused which one to get. Seems that Hal's is the most popular one, the price is quite outrageous. Now I see CTR, I never heard that before. I hope any of you here can help me decide. Anyway Kieth, come out and race WSMC. Racing's much better than track days, IMHO. Vince | ||
| Slaughter |
WOW VINCE! Good to see you here! If you're thinking chain conversion - look up Saintly here on the BBS - he had put together a kit that will do you really well. I've got the Hals on my bike but his is something like $300 give or take a little. You don't get a longer swingarm or the adjustable axle. I have no regrets about the Hal's swingarm conversion but I've read good things about Saintly's setup. | ||
| Slaughter |
Vince, Do you know that with your race license, you can buy race-only parts from Buell Racing? Talk to Ernie about it this weekend. Most of it is stuff taken off of test bikes, scuffed, cosmetic returns... stuff like that. If you wanted to start building up some spares, get replacement parts, it's a good deal. You CANNOT order parts directly through Buell Racing however - you have to have them ordered through a dealer but the prices are usually really good! (and less hassle than ebay) - but that's what Ernie's out there for. (and he's always wrenching his socks off) See you in a couple days at the races! | ||
| Lightningrider |
Dude, would an inch longer of a swingarm makes a difference? really? Besides chain conversion, I am thinking of getting exhaust. I am using a loaner right now, came off David's bike. I am debating if Ti-Force is a better exhaust than Micron? Ti-Force weight = 12.3 lb Micron weight = 18.5 lb. 6 lb is one hell of a weight difference dont you think? Do you know what the HP difference is? Any experience in this anybody? Thanks | ||
| Slaughter |
I really DON'T think the longer wheelbase makes all that much difference. It's more convenient when changing sprockets if you don't have to remove/install links. Not sure if Saintly's idler has an adjuster or not (can't remember) The longer wheelbase is nice but not a real requirement. Chaconas did the simpler chain conversion on his racebike but now has gone to the higher dollar system so you might ask him about his thoughts on the swingarm he has on now - compared to the non-adjustable type. The Micron IS a heavy exhaust. Works well and is really durable but I hear you on the weight. That's why I'm hanging onto the Beson for now. It's the LIGHTEST exhaust except the Force... and the Force had suicidal tendencies (though now they have spring-loaded slip joints) You might hit up Hals. They now make a race exhaust for Buells but I've never seen one. Call their 800 number or shoot them an email. Actually don't know if they MAKE it or re-sell somebody elses but when I talked about the XB-Blast project, Terry said they could have a custom exhaust made for a pretty reasonable price. | ||
| Lightningrider |
I just heard from Patrick that Ti-Force doesnt give the mid-end power, more toward top-end. Oh well, I wish that someone has tried it at the track and would be able to tell the diffrence. $1600 for exhaust is crazy. | ||
| Trojan |
I would echo the above comments with a couple of additions/proviso's: 1. Buy the very best rear shock that you can afford, and certainly one with adjustable compression/rebound AND ride height. You will be shocked at just how much faster you can make your bike turn by just raising the ride height a couple of mm. AST & Penske do fully adjustable versions at very good prices. 2. Improve your front brake. Either by fitting better pads/wave disc or the factory 8 piston caliper to fight heat build up, or fit the front end from a sports bike bike with twin discs. If you stick with the stock setup then at least find a better master cylinder (Brembo, Braking, Spiegler etc). Again you will be amazed at the difference. 3. Chain conversion: Either the Free Spirits or the Eddison version offer significant advantages over the factory version, and not just in cost terms. The factory version has been cut and welded to insert the adjusters, which will undoubtedly weaken the swingarm over the stock version. The Free Spirits chain kit keeps the stock swingarm and adjusts the chain via and adjustable chain tensioner in place of the belt tensioner. This not only keeps the strength of the original swingarm but also ensures that the wheelbase remains constant regardless of gearing changes, and that the rear wheel is always perfectly centred when mounting (A pain in the *ss when using axle block adjusters and in a hurry). 4. If you are worried about saving 6lbs in weight then look to removing some of the OE equipment first before comparing relative weights of aftermarket exhaust. We removed 50kg+ from our Uly based race bike just by taking off original equipment that was unnecessary. Changing to a smaller battery and using a battery booster to help start at the track will save 6lbs immediately, and removing the stock saddle for a glassfibre replacement will also save weight. Then go on a diet and get fitter  5. Longer swingarm: We were pretty amazed at the difference between our old race bike, using the stock XB9R swingarm and geometry, and the current bike using the longer Uly/SS swingarm and frame. Handling is just as quick and sure footed with the new bike, but without any twitchiness or any need for a steering damper at all. The handling is much better using the new frame & swingarm in my opinion. 6. Engine mods: Even if you are just changing to a full exhaust system and airbox mods, spend some time & money getting your fuelling right with either direct link or one of the aftermarket injection controllers. You will spend a much longer time at high throttle openings at the track than you ever will on the street, and any weakness here will almost inevitably lead to expensive and unneccesary engine damage. Always keep in mind that the more power you try to extract from a motor, the more fragile and expensive to run it will become, so it is a balancing act between power & reliability. 7. Resign yourself to the fact that you will not be able to live with the latest IL4 jap bikes in a straight line, but work on corner speed, corner speed, corner speed.......It will feel very strange at first because you will feel as if you are going too fast, but you will be surprised at just how much faster you can take a turn that you ever imagined. Just try to leave your braking slightly later each lap and make sure that you look exactly where you want to go on the track. Once you hit the apex then you can concentrate on your corner exit track position. Most riders of jap IL4 machines don't even think about cornering technique (other than trying to look good with their knee down) because they have plenty of power for the straights. This means that the vast majority of trackday riders are very slow in the turns. Racing the XB is more like racing a 250GP bike and will improve your technique a hundred fold (Message edited by trojan on April 13, 2007) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow! Fantastic post Trojan! Thanks for a great read... Custodians... should this thread be in the knowledge vault? (Message edited by reepicheep on April 13, 2007) | ||
| Racebizz |
Yes, that was excellent Trojan thank you. | ||
| Lightningrider |
"6. getting your fuelling right with either direct link or one of the aftermarket injection controllers. You will spend a much longer time at high throttle openings at the track" What would you recommend? I wouldnt sacrafice reliability over power at my stage of racing. Where would you draw the line? | ||
| Trojan |
What would you recommend? I wouldnt sacrafice reliability over power at my stage of racing. Where would you draw the line? There are probably as many opinions here as there are people reading this, so I will state that this is what we did and is not necessarily the only way to go. We took a bog stock Ulysses motor, bored the barrels to 0.040" over stock to give 1214cc and fitted Wiseco 12:1 compression pistons. Hal's flowed the heads for us keeping the stock valves. We used roller rockers in place of the stock ones, but the rest of the valve train is stock. Throttle body is stock, as are cams and bottom end. Airbox is gutted and uses a K&N filter with our Ultimate Airbox kit. We also have the Hal's Ram Air kit which undoubtedly aids top end performance. We used a RapidBike 2 fuel injection controller, which gives almost unlimited tuning of fuel and ignition curves. This is more expensive than the Techlusion etc but has much more scope for adjustment. Exhaust is a Hot Performance Aero Corse, which made 4bhp more than the Micron on the dyno, and gives massive mid range power. Our bike made 103bhp at the rear wheel and 100ft lbs of torque, which we were amazed at. It has been absolutely reliable engine wise all year with retirements being caused only by small problems such as footrests vibrating off  Most of our budget last year was spent on improving the handling & braking, as we wanted to maximise the best points of the bike and keep motor as reliable as possible. This meant making the bike REALLY handle. We fitted an AST rear shock, and a complete Yamaha R1 front end fitted with custom triple trees and Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 cartridges. Brakes were Braking wave discs gripped by R1 calipers and SBS dual carbon pads. ISR provided the radial master cylinder. Without getting into another long argument about the relative merits of the ZTL vs conventional braking setups, I would say that the system we had last year was superb (and readily available on ebay of course!) and even Phil Read said that they were the best he has ever used (& he has raced everything from 250GP to Superbikes). Suspension and brakes performed faultlessly all year and front pads lasted half a season. Another thing that would have been on my shopping list this year if we had continued racing, would have been the XBRR bodywork. It may not be the most aesthetically pleasing in the world, but it is certainly very aerodynamic and I think well worth buying. There is no such thing as free speed, but good aerodynamics are as close as you can get to it. In short, keep the engine as stock as you can get away with, but spend time and money on getting the very best performance you can from the already superb chassis. |
