| Author | Message | ||
     Werewulf |
as i was inquiring, i was just interested in what ways the race ecm is different from the stock one. since i removed my vance and hines to get a little noise relief as it was starting to get loud, possibly from the carbon build up inside the pipe. and i was wondering if i need to reinstall the other ecm. is the race ecm doing me any harm with the stock pipe? when i installed the v&h system it would break up badly at high rpm. the race ecm cured that problem. now with the stock pipe it doesnt seem to put out its original performance. does the ecm need mileage to make adjustments like a car? i dont want to open a can of worms about the exhaust noise thing. i know that some exhaust systems give usable power and many give only a macho sound. when i rode my v-rod for the first time yesterday, i could hardly hear it running while sitting on the bike, but it sounded pretty good from the rear. im only interested in usable power at reasonable speed. i told a man named travis that he could have my x-3 take off parts and he has changed his email address. if you read this, contact me. if he doesnt, i will give them to anyone who wants them. | ||
| Werewulf |
continued from the "fuel tank fittings" post by mak. i must agree with your logic! now that i have almost 10k miles on my bike, i must start thinking about longevity, i have the extended warranty and dont need problems in that area. i guess that its time to put the stock ecm back on, if it causes the bike to run richer. i was hoping someone would tell me that it is beneficial to leave it alone. oh well, whats a little more money. i will admit that this x-1 is a great mountain bike. if i want brute power, i will ride the busa! it cant come close to the x-1 in the turns. i know that i still have the fascist trooper in me, but loud pipes get annoying after a while. i used to live next door to a couple of squids that laid on it at 5am every morning. everyone in the neighborhood wanted to lynch them. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Dave, The race ECM richens up your fuel in the midrange which is where most of us ride our Buells. The styock ECM is quite lean in the mid range and gives a lagging feeling. Running a little rich is much more desireable than running a little lean. I know a few folks that run the Race ECM with stock exhaust and they are very happy. If your worried about warranty issues just switch the ECM before you take it to your dealer. | ||
| Ccryder |
Dave: Leave the Race ECM. It is better all around and the odds are that if you have any problems the Dealer will not care. If you V&H is too lound it's probably loosing it's packing. My preference has been either the White Brothers or the Two Brothers. With the WB you can tune your tone and HP. BTW, how did you X-1 to X-3 turn out. Unfortunately I don't frequent the Quick Board or I could have supplied you with a parts list, pictures and step by step instructions. I completed Stripe'r last Fall and she has been a hit wherever I've gone. Check my profile for a pict. If I wasn't at work I could post one. Time for work. Neil S. | ||
| Ebear |
Werewulf...... Your best bet , as Ccryder said , is to leave the Race Ecm in as it has a much better (richer) curve between 3000 and 4000 where problems occur.However the V&H is a better pipe than the stocker and it has allen buttonheads to take apart.This took me about an hour for whole job.ASB can supply new packing material.Just make sure you have dealer re-zero the throttle position sensor any time you swap out ECMs.It will run much better after!!And Congratulations on your V-ROD!!!!!!! | ||
| Werewulf |
can anyone tell me what a race ecm does that the stock one doesnt. what effect would putting a race ecm on a bone stock engine have? thanks. | ||
| Majicmak |
Woof, The race ECM tunes the F.I. motor to run with the factory race pipe and air cleaner. A motorcycle so equipped runs like a raped ape. It should be set up as a package. You could use a K&N filter with a Kooks header... With a stock muffler and air cleaner it would run rich. Mak | ||
| Blake |
Mac, are you sure that is correct. I was thinking that the DDFI adjusts for prescribed A/F ratio (stock versus race) based on oxygen sensor readings. I believe the race ECM appropriately richens the prescribed mixture to overcome the too lean EPA condition at low and mid range revs. | ||
| Werewulf |
ok, ill start a directly related one! | ||
| Majicmak |
Blake, Going by published Buell lit. Race kit is a package deal. My Dealer has a X1 with a kit. He ran a few pulls using diferent combos. It's the pipe that make the set up work. The pipe needs that ECM. The changes in the air box blend it all together. Riding up to his shop on my stocker and then climbing onto his kit bike, my impression was, that thing needs racing tires. I dont know that EPA regs are all that bad to tell you the truth. One thing I would like you to consider is just how bad a fuel gasoline is. The engines we run today last more than twice as long as the good old days. Reason is, we don't pump as much fuel into them. The regs.that save the air and fuel realy cuts down on wear and tear. I have run the balls off my old VW (Fuel injected) 200,000 miles and it does not burn a drop of oil. Have you ever seen anything pre-EPA that runs on gas go 200,000 miles? My bike is in stock config. If it is not detonating, the mixture is ok. With a race ECM engine life would be cut in half. With a full kit, by 2/3. Loki is running a M2 with a pipe and carb tuning. His est. is, the bike will go 20,000 miles to top end overhaul. My bike should go 50,000. We ride about the same rate. The compression gage will tell the tale. I don't know if they ran a EGA test on that bike with just the ECM change. The O2 sensor may keep it from blowing black smoke. But how rich is to rich. Is a mix that gives good engine life correct,or is tuning for easy wheel stands the way to go? Sure, throwing a pipe on after instal. a race ECM will not make the engine last longer. But "performance tunining " will be correct. Just instal. the ECM will not show the increase in perfomance that is worth the shortened engine life. TO ME. How rich is to rich??? Mak | ||
| Blake |
Mac: MOdern EPA regs are good, for the envirionment, not your Buell engine! I have no idea where you are getting the information about leaner means longer life in an IC engine. Sounds like hogwash to me. I'd agree that "newer" more "modern" engines last longer than their low tech predecessors. But, rather than leaner emissions, the longer life of today's engines is a result of superior design/engineering, superior materials, and superior lubricants, compared to those in use over 30 years ago. Then again, I clearly recall a 1978 Oldmobile 350 V8 that went well over 200K miles with no problems whatsoever. Either way, too lean is very bad, and leads to excessive combustion chamber heat, predetonation, and harmful deposits. Likewise too rich is also bad, and leads to excessive polution and excessive combustion chamber deposits. The BIG differnce between our bikes and modern cars... Since our bikes do not have catalytic converters, they are tuned very lean (on the edge of too lean) in the low/mid rpm ranges to meet the current emissions requirements. The addition of a free flowing pipe and intake require the addition of a race ECM because the free flowing respiration exacerbates the already lean condition of the stock emissions compliant system. Your spark plugs or even better, an A/F guage, will tell you the truth. | ||
| Anonymous |
I think its more like proper mixture means longer life. I've had several Mustangs over the years and noticed that my '70 Boss 302 required head work every so many miles to keep the power up. My 1986 GT (1st year of EEC IV) ran 215,000 miles and it never built up heavy carbon deposits. Jose | ||
| Blake |
Yep, good way to put it, too lean or too rich and the engine will suffer. | ||
| Majicmak |
Blake, I can tell you where I got it from. I worked for an engineer for years with the opinion that a carburator was a piece of junk. There was no grey area Slim, J U N K , junk. This made a lasting impression. The Lecture went like this. Good Fuel Injected engines lasted at least twice as long as a carbed motor (junk) because the fuelie got what it needed and the carb just pours in whatever it wants. To much gas disolves the very thin film of oil on the cylinder walls. Ever look at a new cylinder and seen those swirl cut hone marks? They are about .00005 inch deep. They are there for oil to cling to. Oil is good, gasoline is bad. For the cylinder that is. If you hooked up a pony motor to an engine and spun it up like an air compressor (thats really all these thing are) it would work for how long? Years? But we want to do some work so gas gets pumped in. My stock S3T runs fine. If I instal. a race ECM the FEDS would think it was running rich,and I dont need all that extra gas to get down the road. BTW, I own a Non Buell motorcycle with a CAT. It has a big flat spot around 5 grand, so it takes a few seconds to get up to 140 MPH. Hate to be logical, but after you watch 36 episodes of Star Trek year after year.....    Mak | ||
| Blake |
Mak: Some engineer's "opinion." I suppose that might mean something.  I'd agree that good EFI is better than a carburetor, as long as it is working, and as long as the EFI is programmed to provide the optimum A/F ratio throughout the operational range. But that's not our debate is it? I thought we were debating the worth of a race ECM versus the stocker. So consider that compared to our Buells, a modern sequential multiport EFI car engine more consistently maintains an optimum A/F mixture by virtue of it's constant, precisely controlled operating temperature, and it's catalytic converter, which in cases where the mixture might run a bit rich, will burn up all those nasty unburned hydrocarbons. Our Buells have no catalytic converter to incinerate unburned fuel, and they lack the precise temperature control system of a water cooled engine. In order to meet emissions requirements they are necessarily tuned, in stock condition, to the LEAN side of optimum for low and mid range revs. For the DDFI engines it's the midrange that gets the big lean hit. Trust me, if the A/F ratio were so rich so as to allow fuel to condense on the cylinder walls, your engine would be running like crap. I see using the DDFI race ECM as being equivalent to poppin in a 45 pilot jet, enrichening the idle circuit/screw, and switching to the sportster needle. The bike runs soooo much better. More power means more efficiency. More power GOOOOOOOD!! Hot rear cylinder BAAAAAAD!! Nothing wrong with running the stock module though. It's your bike amigo.  Blake Click HERE to go to the next page of this discussion. |
