| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
In my opinion, Buell still should be making the S2, as it still is the best bike Buell has built. There is a reason that the S2 was chosen by Aaron Wilson to be the chassis for the Bonnieville land speed record runs, and anybody who has ever owned one knows it. I understand that some would say that I am just an old fart who gets all sentimental about these bikes, but I think the record is clear. I still get everything that I want for my S2, although I know it will not be that way forever. I have accumulated a fairly healthy supply of parts, including WP forks, triple trees, swingarm, frame and sub-frame. There are some parts that I cannot get any more and are considered obsolete according to my dealership, but fortunately, American Sport Bike carries them still. However, as we all know, the S2 was a production bike that had a run in the thousands over the two years+ (somebody out there knows exactly how many were made), so it is easy to see why there were a lot more parts available. The XBRR had a limited run of 56 race bikes, and it appears that many of them will never see tarmac, so it would seem to the uninitiated that the incentive to continue making specialized parts for that bike would be much more limited. If those in the know say it ain't so, then who am I to argue? That is good news to those few who are racing them this year. Of course, if Buell starts making the XBRR's cases (and other superior parts) as standard equipment for the street bikes, then that would give it the incentive to make these parts plentiful for a long time. | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, The XB chassis is better. Way better. Additionally, what is best for going 200+mph at Bonneville, is not likely best for other scenarios. Are there any road racing bikes with weighted down and stretched swingarms? The optimum proof-test for a chassis in a bike that handles well on the street/roadracing circuit is not going to be success in land speed racing. | ||
| Jscott |
"what was said was that they are completely committed to the XB platform for current and possible future models, the off road venture is a completely new ADDITION to the Buell family. The one BAD thing I heard at the show is that the funding for the XBRR has been all but eliminated." Any truth to this statement? | ||
| Thespive |
Jimi, also consider that the fairing Aaron uses is the most aerodynamic bodywork ever produced for a road going/production motorcycle and it was made to mount on a tuber. That in itself may be why they continue to use that bike. --Sean (Message edited by thespive on January 30, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>Any truth to this statement? Damn near none. | ||
| Rick_a |
It's a SIGMA speedometer. The pickup is a very simple inductive sensor on a wire. You just have to be creative on where to mount it. You have to either glue or use outdoor grade double stick tape to hold the trigger on the wheel. The light is a battery powered LED that I added a resistor to so that I could run 12V into it. (Message edited by Rick_a on January 30, 2007) | ||
| Jimidan |
Sean sez: Jimi, also consider that the fairing Aaron uses is the most aerodynamic bodywork ever produced for a road going/production motorcycle and it was made to mount on a tuber. That in itself may be why they continue to use that bike. The bodywork that Aaron used was off of an RR1000, with the wheel base of 53.5 inches and a 25 degree steering head angle with 4.6 inches of trail. The wheels were 16" with dual 320 mm rotors in the front. The maximum lean angle is 55 degrees with a dry weight of only 395 pounds (the engine weighed 200 pounds!). Aaron could have kept the RR1000 chassis, but chose the S2 because it is much more stable with its 55" wheelbase, rake of 25 degrees and trail of 3.9"...same as the RS1200. Blake sez: The XB chassis is better. Way better. Additionally, what is best for going 200+mph at Bonneville, is not likely best for other scenarios. Are there any road racing bikes with weighted down and stretched swingarms? The optimum proof-test for a chassis in a bike that handles well on the street/roadracing circuit is not going to be success in land speed racing. Better at what? Much better at what? I don't think that Aaron Wilson stretched (or weighted down) the S2's swingarm, did he? I don't think he modified it in any way. Conventional wisdom would seem to dictate that what goes best at Bonnieville would be quite different than what handles well on the roadrace circuit...but does that take into account Erik's genius? I think not. As an engineer, certainly you can appreciate that. Take a look again at the geometry of the S2 above...and then keep in mind that it is very similar to the Ducati 996, 998, 1098 specs: 55.5" wheelbase, 24 degrees 30', 3.8" trail. We all know how badly the Ducati's handle on the racetrack, now don't we? I would suggest that the S2 chassis was not the most efficient one for going 200 MPH at Bonnieville (just look at the purpose built steamliners), any more than Brian Nallin's S1 was the best for drag racing (just look at the weighted and stretched swingarms on those purpose built dragsters), but they got the job done, because of the genius of one Erik Buell. I may be one of the few S2 owners to have taken their bikes to the roadrace track and flogged them...and maybe the only one who has done it with an 88" engine. The bike handled flawlessly, and it was as solid while dragging the footpegs as sitting in a chair at my dining room table. I couldn't get it out of shape regardless of what I did. I could open it up right at the apex and never get the slightest headshake...without a steering damper. I have ridden several XB's and they feel absolutely twitchy in comparison...with a lot less HP and torque. They stand up in the curves when you get hard on the brakes. I have talked to pros who have tried to ride them much harder than I, and they prefer the more sane geometry of the tube frame bikes...ask Eric Woods (who could never get it dialed in). I believe that the XB was a product of Sean Higbee's wet dream  , and maybe he thought it handled better. Sure, the XB is better in some things than the old S2, like fit and finish, brakes, swingarm/oil bladder. The ol' S2 was hand built in a small garage and the XB uses technologically superior manufacturing techniques from around the world, so the fit and finish is much better than the kit-bike look of the S2. The S2, with its triangulated tube frame, looks positively dated compared to the XB...because it is. Funny though, the Ducati 1098 (that will walk all over an XB12, or probably an XBRR, for that matter), still uses that same old tube frame...and very similar geometry to that ol' S2. So does their MotoGP bike. Looks ain't everything. jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
The ebay auction for the Glendale (CA) HD/Buell's XBRR, selling straight out of the crate, was bought for $22,225. That is an $8,775 loss on their investment...they ain't gonna get rich that way. The guy that bought it was not an ebay regular, as this was his first purchase. jimidan | ||
| Thespive |
Wow, he got a steal. Was that Matty's bike? --Sean | ||
| Matty |
Yup! It was listed here first - long before it ever went on Ebay. Loss? No. Depends how you look at it Jimi. | ||
| Jbar |
Note: the final price was 24,225.00, as reported by eBay "Completed Transactions"...still a steal...! | ||
| Jimidan |
Lessee, $31,000 minus $22,225 = $8,775 to the minus column, in the red, impecuniousness, donation to the buyer, etc. I'd say that is a significant loss, er ah, deficit, any which way you want to look at it. Is it a significant loss? Well, it would be to me, but I don't have the kinda dough that a HD dealer from California has. It will probably just be written off on his taxes, so we all can share the loss...it is the American way!  Rich Cronwrath's bike was priced starting out at $30,000, so that it why it didn't even get a bid. jimidan | ||
| Tenracing |
I may have one for sale come the end of march. A possible racing contract with another type of racing may take my focus away from it and I would hate to see the bike just sit. interested parties may contact me directly, but I will not know until probably late march. the bike I have was a July shipped bike, I have spare wheels with discs, set of sprockets front and rear, heat coated exhaust, moved the breather catch cans to the tail, I just ordered the new lightened foot pegs and brackets, STM slipper clutch, will be ordering the titanium rear axle, and hopefully the new carbon body work that is a portion lighter too. | ||
| Socalbuell |
I want to put xbrr body work onto my xb12r has any one done this and are there pictures? | ||
| Jbar |
Brett, I'm having the STM slipper clutch put on right now. What's the advantages of the titanium rear axle and the heat coated exhaust? Didn't know that these were available from Buell Racing... | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Jbar- Did you see this Dakota Digital #MCV-7400 Speedometer/ Tachometer Information Center? Looks perfect for your needs.  Lightninginthesky posted this in the "Let's see your custom" thread on the XB board. | ||
| Slaughter |
Also... Mychron makes a really good system that is readable at a glance. Display is custom configurable. http://aimsports.com/products/mychron4/index.html | ||
| Jbar |
Jon, Slaughter - thanks for the info. I bought a MXL Pista system from AIM Sports, because it has 1) an acclerometer and 2)later this week will have a GPS module. It will actually log the bike's course on each lap, which can be superimposed over a GoogleEarth map of the particular track. Also, up to 8 other analog inputs (exhaust temp, RPM, Speed, Lean Angle, etc...can be recorded for later download into a PC... Mounting is a bit of a problem, but should be OK...will have to custom fab some sort of bracket off of the Fuel Cap or hang it off of the carbon fiber air intake... | ||
| Tenracing |
the heat coated exhaust is supposed to keep the heat inside the pipes, thus a cooler engine compartment, plus it is also supposed to increase exhaust velocity which indirectly has been known to enhance power, VERY minutely but still. the titanium axle decreases unsprung weight so faster acting the stocker on the XBRR is a big ol steel thing that is plenty heavy! Oh yea and the heat coated exhaust is the stock stuff sent to H&M Elliott in N.Carolina (Message edited by tenracing on February 14, 2007) | ||
| Madduck |
Jimidan, Aaron wilson has extensively modified the swingarm and I believe it may be filled with lead, that is one of the standard "bonneville tricks" and I doubt that he would not have done it also. We've played around with lead shot in my production class buell but the salt wasn't kind to us in 05 so our best time was without the weighted swingarm. The bikes running at bonneville may be stock appearing but they are wildly different. Next to no one out there is going to share their "secrets" but when you examine them closely you will see all sorts of things that have changed just for bonneville. We've run at maxton also and the setup for there had to be changed substantially from what was good at bonneville. The odd thing is that my bonneville S2 is a hoot to ride on the street. A little rejetting and your good to go. It will easily run past 160mph on pavement, gps measured. | ||
| Jimidan |
thanks Madduck, I stand corrected, I think. I may ask Aaron what he did to the bike, although as you say, he may not want me to broadcast it allover the web. I still think that the S2 was the best all around bike Buell has produced to date...but that is just one old man's personal opinion. Let's hope that Erik will build another similar but updated version someday. jimidan | ||
| Nickwarne |
Can anyone provide the Ohlins part no. for the XBRR front forks? I might put some on my ride... | ||
| Mutation_racer |
nick i'll be at work tom. and can get that part # for you. | ||
| Nickwarne |
Thanks dude! | ||
| Lucas70374 |
fork left j0121.04ah fork right j0122.04ah If you need more let me know | ||
| Nickwarne |
Thanks Lucas! Are those Ohlins numbers or Buell numbers? I need the former to order from our Ohlins importer. Cheers, Nick | ||
| Lucas70374 |
buell | ||
| Nickwarne |
Do you have the Ohlins PNs? The Australian Buell importer is utterly indifferent to this kind of thing. Regards, Nick | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Nick, Ohlins is listing Buell Forks on their USA web site. http://www.ohlins.com/Motorcycle/Hidden/Recommenda tionlist/tabid/110/Default.aspx Part number is FG 334 They are listed as fitting 2005 Buells. I do NOT know if these are the same forks that are fitted to the XBRR, but it is a place to start. | ||
| Nickwarne |
Thanks Jon. Yes, I had found this, but I have a 2006 XB12SS. Since the XBRR uses the XB12SS frame and swingarm, I figured I'd try and get XBRR parts. |
