| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
I was hoping we could make this a brain dump for everyone to post their breather and catch can ideas, designs, what have you for those of us who would rather make one than shell out $130 for a metal box. My idea that I'm playing with (and plan on trying) would be to use a prescription drug pill bottle. I would run the breather line into the cap and have the cap be the mounted portion. I believe these bottles already breathe, so there may not be a need for an outlet anywhere. Since the cap is that part that would be mounted to the bike, you would simply unscrew the bottom portion off to empty it. That way you don't have to worry about finding something to drain the fluid into if you just had a petcock. Unscrew the bottom, carry it over to the trash can at the gas station and dump it out. Done deal. Any other ideas? It seems that most any small sealable container would be able to work with a little engineering. | ||
| Littlefield |
Saw one where a guy vented up through a clear, in-line gas filter that acted as a knock-out and allowed you to see the accumulation. Looked like it would work fine if there wasn't much vent flow. That's about the simplest/cheapest I've seen. | ||
| Xl1200r |
How do you mean acted as a "knock out"? | ||
| Jackbequick |
Maybe he means the one I did: http://users.adelphia.net/~jackerbes/Buell/breathe r.html It worked fine for me on a 2000 M2 for about 5,000 miles in spite of numerous warning about spooge building up, blowing out, etc. None of that ever happened. Not once. After those photos were taken I replaced the "bread box" with an aftermarket, billet aluminum, spam can style air cleaner. The required a slight change in the hoses but otherwise the up and over routing worked fine. I no longer have the M2 but have done a similar conversion for my 1997 H-D Dyna FXD and it is working fine too. Feel free to email me at jacker at midmaine dot com if there is anything in that that you don't understand. Jack (Message edited by jackbequick on February 02, 2007) | ||
| Dentfixer |
I run a 3/8 fuel line from a T connecting the 2 hoses off the heads, that line runs down the front past the oil cooler and back to where the clutch cable enters the cover ending with a plastic plug. Where the line passes the cooler I added a T and run a short 3/8 elbow with K&N breather filter. The line from the breather to the clutch cover is about 6" and holds all the crud just like a catch can. I empty it after every ride so it never fills up close the the breather filter. No need for any kind of can, the tube works fine. I have an 82 Honda V45 that has the same setup from the factory (minus the breather filter), so it's a tried and true system that works. Total cost for this system is less than $30. I'll post a pic later as I'm on a work PC at the moment. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Dent... I was considering something very similar as well. Please try to post those pics, I'm interested in how it lookes when mounted. | ||
| Dentfixer |
Try this link to the photos of my breather system. http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t200/buffalobue ll/ | ||
| Dentfixer |
Oh yeah, When the chin fairing is on, the hose is barely noticeable. You can use a plug from a sportster or tuber (I think) to plug the end. I just stole the one off my Honda! The braided steel cover on the rubber hose is a nice effect. I got that from the HD dealer I was working for at the time. I guess my employee discount is why my system cost me less than $30  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Excellent pictures. The way I was envisioning it was to use a "y" connector further upstream and hiding the breather filter under the airbox, and terminating the hose at the bottom of the oil cooler. I'm just sure if this setup would be able to have the capicity need to keep from overflowing out of the filter. If my math is right, a 3/8" OD hose that's 18" long should hold about 7.8 ounces of fluid. I would think that would be more than enough. (Message edited by xl1200r on February 06, 2007) | ||
| Justin_case |
If you use clear tubing you can tell,at a glance, when it needs draining. | ||
| Dentfixer |
I considered putting the breather filter up higher, even inside the airbox, but I wanted to be sure to route 100% of the crap away from the intake. With a lower breather filter, you are assured that stuff flows down and away from the valve covers. I do empty it after every ride so for me it will never make it's way up to the filter. | ||
| Ridrx |
Is it possible that rerouting the breather system could contribute to pinging? Everyone seems to agree on having some amount of water in the catch can, if this were routed in the stock manner(to the intake) would it be enough to contribute to staving off the dreaded detonation(kinda like a cavemans water injection)? Or, is it so insignificant as to have no effect one way or the other? | ||
| Dentfixer |
Ridrx, I couldn't hazard a guess at your question. Myself, I'd rather go at the cause of the pinging rather than covering up the symptoms of it. I'd go for a higher octane gas and/or retard the timing a scratch before dumping that crap down the throat of my $10,000 machine. | ||
| Ridrx |
Dentfixer, That was really just a curiosity question. At the moment my breathers are in the stock location and not sure that the breather mod wouldn't void my warr. Anybody have any input about breather mods/affecting warr.? I would like to do this because as you say, I too want that vile mixture far away from the intake, but I dont want to give up my warr. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ridx - pinging is caused by the fuel charge burning too fast for the engine's settings (ignition and cam timing, compression, etc). Allowing the wator vapor to go into the charge may cause a less powerful burn, but I don't think it would burn any slower. That's just a best guess. | ||
| Ridrx |
Actually, "pinging" or detonation is caused by the air/fuel mixture igniting from increasing cyl. pressure before the spark plug fires. The wonderful ping that you hear is the sound of that ignition impacting the top of you still rising piston. It;s the same sound you hear when a nasty old diesel gets behind you in the drive thru. The water(be it pcv or water inj.) acts to cool the intake charge thus reducing ping, its kinda the same way N2O works. It;s not actually flammable it just brings more O2 to the party and cools the mixture. That is the reason for the 93 octane, the octane rating is a measure of ign temp, hence 93 has to get hotter to lite than 89. | ||
| Aesquire |
I doubt the small amount of vapor would help ping, & if there was enough, you'd have blowby issues. It's part exhaust gas, part water vapor, part oil mist. Worth using a catch can/filter though. Cheap way to keep engine clean. What ever set up you use, ( my can is made by Coca Cola ) make sure the collection point is below the heads. Also make sure it can breath freely. The small crankcase volume on these twins means they HAVE TO puff on startup, and plugging the breathers can result in BAD things. Like blowing out the crank seal into the primary, filling it with engine oil, and blowing it all over your rear tire. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ridrx - that's what I was trying to get at... The timing stuff was in relation to the burn starting as the piston was still moving upwards. | ||
| Grahamnz |
Have you noticed this mod, posted elsewhere here? Simple and 99% effective.  | ||
| Clarry |
I modded my '98 S3T's breather system, with pictures here - http://rides.webshots.com/album/412721198FMhgsI I'm thinking of using an air-compressor air filter as a catch-can. I bought a fairly-inexpensive one at Home Depot... just haven't found a good way to mount it, yet. Also, it requires a different drain petcock, because the one that comes installed depends on high air pressure to seal up. Larry | ||
| Jackbequick |
Larry, Maybe something like I did will work for you. Look at the way I used a small gas filter here: http://users.adelphia.net/~jackerbes/Buell/breathe r.html In the photo there, the clear vinyl tube entering the filter from the right is cut at an angle on the end and goes in until it touches the top of the filter. When that is mounted vertically (clear vinyl tubing pointing down) the oil level inside the filter housing has to rise to or near the top of the filter element before the air flow will force it into the vinyl tube. That system worked well for me on my M2, I was able to get through a whole riding season without enough oil building up that I had to empty or replace the filter. That worked well enough that I used a similar system on my present ride, a Dyna FXD. Jack | ||
| Ryker77 |
Kuryaken makes an adaptor that fits behind the airfilter and routes the oil mist to the carb. The adaptor is about 30.00. But the head bolt things are worthless. Get the real headbolt breathers then route them to the carb adaptor. less than 50.00 and its clean looking. | ||
| Bombardier |
Have bought a stainless hip flask off ebay and am going to mount it where the billet ones go. The hose connectors will be at the back with the breather mounted up a little higher. | ||
| Aesquire |
I run a pair of Sportster "banjo" fittings on the heads ( Cyclone ) back to a home made can. Usually a Sodapop bottle, and dispose of it when it gets dirty. ( 5 cent deposit makes it stupid cheap ) I tie wrap the bottle to the battery clamp. You can just see it in my profile pic, at that time it was a 16 oz. Coke bottle. Bombardier should run a Fosters can.  A stainless hip flask sounds perfect. Please post a picture when done. I love to see what people do with this most simple of performance tricks. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Ingenuity is more impressive when it's cheap - I like the budget catch-cans the best. | ||
| Jc000 |
I'm about to install a new intake, and I'm not sure of the benefit of using a catch can (not technically savvy enough!). Can anyone break it down for me? Is there an improvement somewhere over routing the stuff back into the intake? | ||
| Jayvee |
It's like you being forced to consume your own excretions. Engines run on gas and air, not oily blow-by. The maker runs it into the intake to get rid of it, on account of the EPA, not because it helps anything. Better way to get rid of it, is to catch it as it comes out the engine and then get rid of it in the garbage or oil recycling center for you ecological types. My used bike came with a fancy billet EBOC with a little K&N, but used stock tubes coming out the heads, one was straight out, one 90°, too much plumbing, it looked goofy. Put on the Custom Chrome banjo-bolts ($21) and looks so much neater/better. I think hoses up or down out of the heads matters much less than just the fact it's taken out of the intake stream. (Message edited by jayvee on November 07, 2007) | ||
| Jc000 |
Lol, yeah well that certainly clears that up. Seems like a more technically advance project than I am used to handling, but I'll try to come up with something. Thanks again, Jayvee. | ||
| Aesquire |
Really, it's the simplest 1 hp ( measured improvement no less ) you can add to your bike. ( keeps the pistons & heads cleaner too ) The arrangement of air cleaner & head venting determines what you have to do. On the stock breadbox air cleaner on a M2 or S3 one can replace the rear ugly 'bolt' with a chrome banjo, route the hose from the front 'bolt' out through the hole left from the rear hose along with a hose from rear banjo and tie wrap them along the frame to a catch can.. X1's are nearly as easy. When I went to a different air cleaner, I just picked up/installed another banjo bolt & hooked up the hose. Get a beer & peruse this site for pics & different logics. | ||
| Djkaplan |
You don't need banjo bolts with a Forcewinder (it does make the hose routing easier, though).  Shown with stock rocker covers. If you get XB rocker covers...  ...you can just close off the vents in the cylinder heads.  |
