| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
Vagelis46 Buell is not running out of time. the XB is a head of the curve but I guarantee that the next one will be better. The RR will be a competitive privateer bike for a while. Don't know that it will be winning at the AMA FX level a lot but it will be quite a platform for lots of people to race a very high level. Those who say that the HD execs pulled the plug on the RR are simply wrong. HD did not put th eplug in and they are not in the position to pull it. I know some thought, based on what they read and heard that the RR was going to be a Daytona 200 and AMA FX winner right out of the box. Those were unrealistic goals, not that I wouldn't fantasize about that every ten minutes or so last February (and I bet Erik did also  The RR is still out there, still supported by a team from the factory, still getting better. If you expect the level of money and support that the Big companies put out that you are going to be disappointed. I do think that the effort will be done very quietly after the stink that people raised last year when the results did not match the expectations. | ||
| Jimidan |
Davegess sez: Those who say that the HD execs pulled the plug on the RR are simply wrong. HD did not put th eplug in and they are not in the position to pull it. So who did then? It couldn't have been Erik as he was still telling us wait until next year as of late fall. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, or the date, but I remember reading it on here. He was obviously blindslided after he made the statement that the sponsor}s were no longer going to be there (remember who the sponsors were, doncha?) jimidan | ||
| Jscott |
"“The AMA’s FX class is really getting fast and exciting and was a battle for the championship until this last race. It's been quite a learning year for the Buell teams, and when Jeremy's team finally got the set up right for him on Sunday morning, it was looking like we would close out the season with our best finish yet. But that's racing, and that's why we'll be back next year; it's the challenge,” said Buell Motorcycle Company Chairman and Chief Technical Officer Erik Buell." }http://www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/racingnews detail.asp?news_id=1065 | ||
| Blake |
Some people here might gain an entirely new perspective on the issue if they were to go out and try to actually accomplish something significant instead of carping endlessly about the determined efforts of others. In my view, the arrogance displayed here by some is bewildering and truly unfortunate. What ever happened to manners and respect and gentlemanly decorum? If you don't have something constructive to add, then please just be quiet. I agree with Anony; I'm sick of all the know-it-all critics here badmouthing Buell Racing. What Dave Gess said! Thanks Dave! Go Ducati! Go Buell Racing!! | ||
| Blake |
JScott, Your repeated resurrection of that quote is extremely rude and in very poor form. We all saw it the first three times you posted it. Whoa unto you should you ever be a public figure and have circumstances beyond your control turn against you rendering one of your prior upbeat and enthusiastic statements invalid. | ||
| Jscott |
"JScott, Your repeated resurrection of that quote is extremely rude and in very poor form. We all saw it the first three times you posted it. Whoa unto you should you ever be a public figure and have circumstances beyond your control turn against you rendering one of your prior upbeat and enthusiastic statements invalid." My repost was in reply to Jimidan's reference. Nothing rude was implied. Go Walt!!!Go Worm!!! Blake, when ya gettin' your durt bike? (Message edited by JScott on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Davegess |
Jimidan, last I checked there will be a Buell entered in the 200. Sounds like Buell is back racing, they have not run away they just have not been able to raise the funds to do a program like last year. The sponsors that Buell had last year signed up for a very special one time shot at the 200 and whatever other races teams could make. My understanding is that none had committed to anything more. No plug was pulled, what happened in reality is that Buell was unable to interest a major sponsor in the program. I know they had hopes of being able to sign someone up and be able to run a bigger effort but this proved impossible. Considering that the greatest MC racer in the world, Val Rossi, running on a top notch factory team, is also unable to find a title sponsor tells me that sponsorship dollars are in very short supply right now. With the tobacco companies moving out of racing there is a void being created and it is rippling throughout the racing world. IROC was canceled for lack of sponsor. Big money sponsors are tough to come by right now. | ||
| Court |
The quote is accurate. The level of factory dedicated resources may not be what some of us us want this year but the phrase "pulled the plug" is . . well, patently inaccurate. Frankly, if I were as knotted in the tummy as some folks, I'd go buy a motorcycle made by someone who just made me giggle and laugh endlessly throughout the day. I am very excited about things that are going on at Buell. Court (then again I have an idea where the money we'd have like to seen in the race program went. . .  | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, you said What ever happened to manners and respect and gentlemanly decorum? If you don't have something constructive to add, then please just be quiet. "Rocket, you horse's a**". "Man, you truly are a jerk stewing in your own poison". "Blake, don't ban him, shoot him"! I agree with you Blake. Please email anonymous, like you do me, and ask him to respect board policy, like I have to. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake sez: What ever happened to manners and respect and gentlemanly decorum? If you don't have something constructive to add, then please just be quiet. I agree with Anony; I'm sick of all the know-it-all critics here badmouthing Buell Racing. Yeah, whatever happened to manners and respect and gentlemanly decorum, Anony...you can always tell when THIS Anony comes on board...he is definitely the rude one, and hides behind his anonymous cover to make personal insults. It is one thing to use the anony cover to talk about insider info and quite another as a shield to insult and degrade the Buell faithful. I don't see us badmouthing Buell racing (gross oversimplification, and I think you know it)...rather, it is the absence of Buell in FX racing and the way that the MoCo went about it. jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
Ducati did not get to this level in two years nor did they get here spending there own money. Actually Dave, two years is about spot on from the time Ducati was bought from government control into private ownership by the Castiglioni brothers - with their own financing. Anybody who thinks Buell is doing this the wrong way has a very simple thing to do; start a motorbike company and go racing. Dave, that's exactly what the Castiglioni brothers did in 1985. Didn't take them long to start winning on the world stage either. World titles followed in a mere handful of years too. Rocket | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket they BOUGHT a company with a racing history,engineers and an owner base. They did not START a bike company and two years later go racing, the company they bought had been racing for years. I seem to recall a little know guy named Hailwood running a Ducati and a minor league race in the Isle of Man some few years prior. Not that they didn't do a nice job, just that the Buell story is very different than that. | ||
| Trojan |
The company and the machines that the Castiglioni brothers created when they took control of Ducati bears little resemblance to the one that Hailwood, Spaggiari and Paul Smart rode to victories in the 70's, although Ducati are now cashing in on the 'retro' nostagia trip by selling tribute models. A similar analogy would be the modern Triumph factory claiming a racing heritage with the Triumph Triples of the early 70's and blatantly cashing in on the 'old' Meriden Triumph Bonneville heritage, even though the two companies have absolutely nothing to connect them except the name. Let's face it, if we are going to split hairs, then Erik also bought a company with a racing history (Barton) and uses engines from a company with a racing history longer than Ducati. Buell have achieved amazing things in their short history , but you have to also give credit to what Ducati have achieved over the last 20 years from what was pretty much a standing start. When the Castiglioni brothers took over the whole of the Italian motor industry was pretty much on it's knees and the country was in an economic & political shambles. Most of the Italian motorcycle industry did not survice this crisis at all, so the Ducati recovery is all the more remarkable when viewed against this bleak backdrop. Personally and for a number of reasons I wouldn't own another Ducati, but I admire their attitude to racing more than all the other bike manufacturers. The biggest difference between Ducati and all the others seems to be this: Ducati sell bikes so they can go racing, all the others go racing to sell bikes.  | ||
| Jimidan |
The essence is that Buell's involvement in FX racing, or racing in general, is between Buell and HD...it is their prerogative how much they want to spend on a racing budget...and really it is none of our business what they do. Everybody seems to have an opinion on how it should be done, but what it all comes down to is its their money, and in reality, the Buell faithful have nothing to say about it. This isn't a democracy and all of the bitchin' and moanin' by casual bystanders isn't going to effect their decisions. Buell racing will be Buell racing when those in charge decide when, what and where they want to do it, and not a moment sooner. Sure, I personally would love to see a full on factory FX effort, but I have to admit that my desire is driven by selfish motives to be entertained and to have something to get excited about. But really, I will still get excited about Walt and Brian and Mutant Man (on his streaking flag!) this summer, just like I did for Shawn, Dave, Mike and Barney before them. Just hearing these old motors at full song is enough to get me going. It will give me a good excuse to strap on the tent and bed bundle on the old S2 for some road trips to the various tracks, and get that first whiff of race gas in the morning. And that is really what it is all about, isn't it. I don't know about your guys, but I am needing a good Buell ride about right now, but it is snowing. jimidan | ||
| Jscott |
naysayer  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
There is a BIG difference between Buell and Ducati, that Buell should take advantage of : Buell could have the American motorcycle Market (world's no 1), buying their products by big numbers. I guess Americans would like to own an American built sport motorcycle. So their sales could take off. The Italian market is not even close to the American. So Buell has a big advantage. But in order this to happen, Buell should make Americans (and the rest of us) proud by winning races! This way their customers feel that the bike they are buying is 'special' and the 'best' they can buy. I think it is a circle : Racing needs money from bike sales - Bike sales needs good racing results - Buell has no money to go racing - Their sales stay the same - So Buell does not go racing-Their sales stay the same...... Americans buy the HD custom bikes because ....they are made in the USA. They buy them, althought they might not be the best custom bikes they can buy. Buell should take advantage of the American market to increase their sales. But first Buell should make Americans proud by going racing and having decent results. | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, there is no comparison in any way between Barton and Ducati. Except they were both broke although Barton was not legally broke as in declaring bankruptcy I don't think. In one case an entire motorcycle company with employees, machines, customers etc was sold to a millionaire; in the other a box of parts and some drawings was sold to a broke guy who's "factory" was a one car garage. Then after Erik bought this stuff he went broke and started over. How many bikes did Ducati sell in 1983 the year the brothers bought them. I suspect it was a couple more than the 1 Erik sold. Ducati is great. I think the new product line is excellent and will sell well. they do neat stuff and have managed to reach the point were the factory does not have to pay much to go racing. It would be very interesting to know how much money the factory is spending on things racing related. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Buell could have the American motorcycle Market (world's no 1), Huh? I'm not even sure America is in the Top 10 in terms of worldwide motorcycle sales.
You can read the entire report HERE for the princely sum of $5,100. I borrowed a friends. | ||
| Davegess |
<i'm> Not to mention that racing as a primary driver of sales is vastly overrated by the racing fan. It certainly an play a part in a marketing campaign but I am pretty sure it is down the list after appealing products, regular advertising, good dealers, etc. Potential motorcycle buyers mostly don't go to the races, the also don't buy MC magazines. To reach these people requires some creativity. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Trojan, Your comparison of Buell/Barton to Castiglioni/Ducati is absurd. That is the only word for it. I am sure you realize it too. Geez, I rarely come to these racing pages, and I remember why now. The stuff posted by some folks on here is just nuts. Must be some kind of computer virus in this area that affects minds behind the keyboards. | ||
| Trojan |
Imonabuss, lighten up. If you read the post again I said 'If we are going to split hairs', It was not a direct comparison and wasn't meant to be. The actual comparison I made was between Ducati and Triumph, but you obviously missed that bit. My point was that even Erik started out by buying a product that someone else had developed (to a point) rather than starting from ground zero. Yet again it seems that if anyone praises another brand it is automatically construed as a put down for Buell. Stop being so bloody precious and look at the big picture. I happen to love Buells and have really enjoyed racing ours, but that doesn't stop me being able to appreciate the products of other manufacturers. If being able to enjoy a whole panoply of bikes in addition to Buells excludes me from the 'Buell fan club' then I'll shut the door on my way out. (Message edited by trojan on February 01, 2007) | ||
| Jscott |
...back to Ducati in FX for 07... ""If it's not winning then it's my fault, so...I kind of look at it like there's no excuses and at the end of the day we'd better be up front." --Larry Pegram" http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Feb/070201b.ht m | ||
| Jimidan |
Imonabus sez: Your comparison of Buell/Barton to Castiglioni/Ducati is absurd. That is the only word for it. I am sure you realize it too. Geez, I rarely come to these racing pages, and I remember why now. The stuff posted by some folks on here is just nuts. Must be some kind of computer virus in this area that affects minds behind the keyboards. If all your going to do is come on here and tell us we are all crazy, get back on the bus and go home.  | ||
| Court |
Well . . it was an absurd comparison. | ||
| Blake |
Sean (Rocketman), "I agree with you Blake. Please email anonymous, like you do me, and ask him to respect board policy, like I have to. " This is the familiar "but he started it" excuse of a five year old who is unaccountable for his own actions. I reject it. If one makes behaving respectfully and with good manners contingent upon the politeness of others, there would be no good manners or politeness, anywhere, ever. Be accountable for thyne own self and set an example for the rest of us. | ||
| Blake |
Come on Matt, I agree that it was absurd to compare Erik's purchase of the Barton engine, a horribly failure prone engine, to the Castiglioni brothers purchase of Ducati, an entire motorcycle manufacturer with a long history of success in racing complete with factory and engineers and personnel. And in the context of some here who are putting forth the view that Buell has had as much time as Ducati to gain top level racing success, it seems ridiculous. Ducati built their 100,000th motorcycle when? Buell their 100,000th motorcycle when? | ||
| Court |
To be precise, you'd have to say 11:20AM. . . yeah, it was THAT big a deal.  | ||
| Jimidan |
This is the familiar "but he started it" excuse of a five year old who is unaccountable for his own actions. I reject it. because I agree with what Anony sez 100%, and disagree with what you said about 99%. The line I draw does not have to be straight, for I am the walrus, I am the walrus, I am the egg man. Oh pshaw, Anony was just kidding when he called you a horses a**, a jerk stewing in your own poisons, and coaxed me to shoot you. He is such a kidder, and would never use his anonymous shield to hide behind while making personal attacks. If you wish to avoid further attacks, then Be accountable for thyne own self and set an example for the rest of us. and don't argue with Anony and me. Fractured Fairytail Unknown Origin | ||
| Trojan |
I agree that it was absurd to compare Erik's purchase of the Barton engine, a horribly failure prone engine, to the Castiglioni brothers purchase of Ducati, I WAS NOT COMPARING THESE TWO AT ALL!!! READ THE POST!! I was comparing Ducati to Triumph. I just happened to mention that, if we were really going to be pedantic about things, then Erik started out by buying the Barton product and did not start from scratch. It was not a comparison between Ducati and Buell!! It is though interesting to compare Buell & Triumph, seeing as Triumph started from scratch (having bought only the intellectual rights and the name) in 1983. John Bloor built the factory from the ground up and inhereted nothing from the previous Triumph brand. Triumph sold over 10,000 motorcycles in the US alone last year and the 675 has been voted motorcycle of the year around the world. They have not really got officially involved in racing yet have won races including the TT and Macau in recent years. (Message edited by trojan on February 02, 2007) (Message edited by trojan on February 02, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>>Oh pshaw, That should be Oh oh pshaw, |
