| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
That is cool ! | ||
| Reepicheep |
That ballast is what came in my box, ordered and shipped shortly before Christmas, from the same place you bought yours. I would have preferred a slimmer ballast, and was surprised at how big the thing actually was. If you could relocate the horn and had a slimmer ballast, I suspect there is a decent chance you could get the whole install under the lightning flyscreen. The existing horn in there has to "ring" and cant touch anything. I think if you pulled it and put in the tuber snail type enclosed horn (which was louder and better anyway) you could pack more stuff in there and keep the airbox open. The high beam switch approach would work fairly well, and is simple, reliable, and free. It would have still cycled the HID when I hit the "flash to pass" button, or switched on the high beams. And I would have to remember to use it. Admittedly, not a big deal, but I do like using the high beam to get attention. That was in fact plan C, but it was Christmas and I was on vacation and needed a fun little problem that had *nothing* to do with the day job, and I just got a new soldering iron, and had all those electronic parts just *sitting* out in the garage... and well... you know how it goes  I also did not get nearly the same nice clean horizontal line you got. It's not bad, and not quite as bad as the (other $179 non sponsor kit mentioned), but still not as clean as yours looked. I wonder about the heat as well. I tried to keep the wire I ran all on the far side of the existing bundle up on the frame side. It will get fairly hot, but unless it comes in contact with an exhaust header (other side of the engine) I don't know that it would actually get hot enough to melt insulation. I'll grab an old chunk of cheap wire next time I roll into the garage with a hot engine and see where and if it melts. After 60 or so miles of riding at night (in Ohio, BRRRRR), I have only had one car flash headlights at me, so it must not be that disruptive to other drivers. The light is fantastic, a wide clear bright perfect view of the road surface for a good 100 feet in front of me, and good peripheral light to either side (with extra to the right). And reflective signs several states away light up when I point at them This is probably one of few legitimate applications for a HID. You can't put in a high power bulb without melting that headlight enclosure, so if you want more light out of a new Buell, HID's are your best bet. Tuber owners could probably just slap a conventional higher power bulb in their nice big round glass headlight and be done with it. Reg's approach with external aux assemblies on either side of the forks is not bad either. Total cost out the door including the HID kit, parts for the delay circuit, and shipping and consumables was probably about $260. You might be able to drop that price by $60 to $100 if you take some chances with less reputable kits showing up on the market (which might be fine, or might be junk). | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and I forgot the most important thing... thanks Jamie for taking all the time to post your write up and answering my questions in other threads. It meant I could invest my time trying new things instead of redoing all the stuff you already figured out. Thanks! | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
 Here is the new thin ballast. It is wider, but much thinner. As for the flash to pass switch, unless they changed something for 06, mine just lights up the high beam without cutting the low beam out. In fact I use it quite often when riding at night. I will just grip the switch for a minute when riding in really dark areas. As for the beam pattern I have no idea why yours would not have my cutoff. Did you properly aim it? After much fiddling I found a fool proof way to aim it. Basically you need to find a mid sized car, something like a honda accord. Place the bike 10-15 feet from the rear bumper. Aim the light down enough so it sits just at the top of the trunk lid. The goal here is not to get it high enough to reflect in the review mirror. Most drivers I have talked to say it when you are being blasted from behind is when HID's are at their worse. The last thing you want is a nervous/pissed driver IN-FRONT of you... When heading out on a really dark ride just use the allen key in the tool kit to raise your lamps a few degrees. It only take 30 seconds. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
As for the info, your welcome, but I have to be fair and point out where I got my inspiration. FULLPOWER has one of the earliest write ups I ever saw. He deserves the real credit. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Your right, now that I think about it, the flash to pass does leave the low beams on. | ||
| Henrik |
Nice write-up Bill. Thanks. I may investigate HID further, but on the S2 I'm stuck with a single headlight using an H4 style Hi/Low bulb, and I'm not entirely convinced of the "sturdiness" and accuracy of the motorized bulb solution. I do however have a set of small PIAAs on the shelf for a future Aux light solution. I'll need to design mounting brackets and have them made up, but otherwise a seemingly straight forward solution. Henrik P.S. as for geeky projects, have you ever mingled with the flashlight crowd?? | ||
| Blake |
Very cool guys! Will HID ever be something that will come as OEM equipment? | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- HID is optional on a number of BMW/Mercedes autos -- I'd expect to see it on BWM bikes first, but I've been known to guess wrong before ;-} | ||
| Reepicheep |
One (low beam) was stock on JB2's Victory cruiser! When we rolled into the hotel at night, we were all looking over saying "that looks just like a HID" before Jim pointed out that the reason for that is that it *was* a HID | ||
| Blake |
Do the HID bulbs put out more heat than their Halogen predecessors? | ||
| Blake |
Anyone remember the pre-halogen days? Talk about dim bulbs!  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Yes, Blake the HIDs put out less heat. | ||
| Reepicheep |
They put out something like 3x the amount of light, and 2/3's the amount of heat. Two HID's in a lightning / Ulysses would likely be fine. Two normal headlights on at the same time on that enclosure has a high risk of ruining something. They draw less current as well at steady state, but they can surge fairly high at powerup, which is why they typically wire directly to the battery in the aftermarket kits. Probably an issue for a fuse, but not an issue for stock wiring. | ||
| Hotdog271 |
Hi, I'm new to the board and have some questions regarding the HID lights and the headlights on a lighting. I am a harley rider and looking to purchase a lightning in the next month for a second bike. Has anyone hooked up the lights on a lightning so that the high and low beams are both on with the switch set to high beam? When you installed the HID's did you only do the low beam? I didn't understand the issue with the high beam switch. With the HID's did you have toe eliminate the high beams? I installed HID's into my Trailblazer SS and had to eliminate the day time running lights because they are not supplied with enough voltage to trigger the HID's and left me with a strobe effect. Thanks for the help, I would like to install them myself. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
So far the only motorcycle that offers a factory HID is BMW. They have it as an option for 07. Victory (also Indian) has offered an HID as an accessory. The legality of victory/Indians kit is in doubt. I was marketed as "off road only" I have been surprised that Honda has never put it on the Goldwing. It already has an airbag, what else could be left? Hotdog271, welcome to the Buell fold. Having both headlights on has been covered a lot (hate to sound like a dick, but search...) It is easy to do. Most of us with xbs' have only upgraded the low beam. We each have our own reasons for doing it. Mine was because of space. I didn't want to find room for another ballast. I personally think 2 HIDs would be overkill for how often you really need 2. Running HID high beams would cause problems for oncoming traffic. Now Cacciola is one of the few with an xbs that installed both low/hi, maybe he can chime in why he did it. There is no issue with the high beam switch. The hi/low switch only runs one light at a time, not both when using the high beam. The flash to pass switch enables both momentarily, just like in an automobile. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yes, Jamie is right. Sorry for the confusion I contributed. The Flash To Pass button leaves the low beam on and turns on the high beam. You could wire both lights to be on at all times, but you then loose the "flash to pass" ability to signal people, and if both bulbs are the normal (non HID) bulbs, I expect you will eventually damage the housing or reflectors due to excess heat. Because the HID's put out 35 watts of heat rather then 55 watts of heat, you could probably run two HIDS fine (70 watts heat in the housing). Two filament bulbs is 110 watts of heat in the housing. As Jamie says, there is not a lot of room to add stuff to a lightning. You could probably get it all in there (especially if you get the new smaller ballasts pictured earlier in this thread), but things will be tight. And a single HID puts out a TON of light. Jamie has the best "keep it simple stupid" solution. Use the HID in your low beam, wire the HID relay to the low beam bulb socket, and remember to put your light switch on "brights" before turning on your ignition. When the bike is running, switch back to low beams to turn on the HIDS (once). That prevents the HID from turning off then back on every time you blip the starter. My approach is more stuff to build, install, and break, but it avoids any need to manually switch or set anything when starting the bike. It uses a short timer on the relay to delay the HID from initially turning on until you have had ample time to start the bike. In theory, my approach also has the "advantage" of being able to turn on the high beam and leave the HID low beam on at the same time, but I don't know if being able to set a switch in a position to melt my headlight assembly is really an advantage. Perhaps if I am riding in the rain. Jamie can do this also if he carefully sets his brights switch half way. There is no detent there, but with some practice you can use that on any XB to get both sets of lights on at the same time. Following a neighbor home in their BMW car with Dual HIDS, my single HID on my bike looked every bit as bright, if not brighter. Don't know why or if it was my imagination, but with the single HID I sure don't feel like I am hurting for more light. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I will have to warn those using the middle switch trick. I do that occasionally, but more than once I have been trying to find the middle, and inadvertently turned off all the lights. Once it happened @ 3am on lonely stretch of hwy. Talk about pucker factor. As for why your neighbors BMW looked like it had less light, well it does... In low beam at least. All factory HID lights are designed for urban use. They are set low, with sharp cutoff points to avoid glare. Now if you saw the BMW's high beam, you would be green with envy. Our xbs light housings were not designed for HID, so they have a broad cutoff point. Now the xbr's are a little different. They have a projector beam light set up that have a sharp cutoff. That combined with the melting lenses/reflectors adds up to a form, over function light. | ||
| Blake |
What would happen if you started the bike with the HID lowbeam on in Jamie's version? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
What would happen if you started the bike with the HID lowbeam on in Jamie's version? When you trigger the starter it cuts out the light. That momentary surge it is quite hard on the ballast. The ballast is normally the first thing to fail in an HID setup. And coincidentally the most expensive component (followed by the bulbs themselves) I only switch the light to high beam as a per-caution. | ||
| Diablobrian |
the ballast will only survive a limited number of on/off cycles Blake. The idea of the delay, or switching to high beam limits the number of cycles that the ballast is subjected to. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
the ballast will only survive a limited number of on/off cycles Blake. Actually it is not the shear number of cycles, it also depends on how rough the cycle is. Much like a regular light bulb, if you slowly cycle it on and off it will last a long time. If you quickly flash it on and off it will burn out very quickly. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had one (out of maybe 20 starts before I put in the delay thingy) where the ballast did not turn back on after I had hit the starter. When I "rebooted" the system via the ignition key, everything came back fine, but it gave me the heebie-jeebies. Maybe the ballast has some sort of internal thermal protection built in that I triggered. From what I understand (thanks for all the work everyone is doing here to explain things to me) there is quite a current surge at the moment the ballast is spinning up, which makes sense. If you do it too often in too short a period of time, I bet some heat sink somewhere gets saturated and parts start to exceed their rated operational temperature. In general, electronics wear when you turn them on and when you turn them off... it's mechanical wear from the thermal changes... which then eventually lead to some sort of cascading electrical failure. I did my delay thing for fun and because it was fairly easy with parts on hand. Its a fun hobby. Had I not had access to parts or the inclination to build it in, I would not hesitate a moment to do exactly what Jamie and others have done and simply remember to flip on the brights ever time I turn the ignition off. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Why is it that there is not a candle power rating on aftermarket lights? I am debating between a couple of systems and I cant seem to find which one is brighter, whiter and casts a better beam. And I know I cant run dune buggy lights, but at least they give candle power ratings  And now I am hearing that if I want to run my heated gear, aux lights and headlights i have to go to HIDs & LEDs to lower the load ? Is there an updated stator charging system that I need to run these? Running dark and dirty off the grid . | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Candlepower rating are very subjective. It takes in account not just lighting power (light wattage) but also the design of the reflector and lens. That is why no lighting kit has a candlepower rating, it is a kit, not an entire system... I do not know of an updated stator, but you should be able to figure out how many watts all of your goodies add. Just add those to the stock bikes power draw ( - a halogen headlight at 55w) and you will have your answer. According to Buells site you have 494w of total power available. Somewhere in the KV I saw a post where someone figured out exactly what the draw of a stock bike was. If I remember correctly you should have plenty to run HID (35w) and heated gear (20-35w avg) Do you really need aux lights? I just don't think you really understand how much light a single HID casts. Since you are close, why not stop by and see my bike before you go off spending unnecessary cash? | ||
| H2owerker |
Reep, I built the "delay thingy" as you spec'd it from Radio Shack, and it didn't work. (I'm curious if there may be a typo in your previous post) I ran the design past the electrical engineer at work before building it, and he said "yeah that should work". So I built it over the weekend and it wouldn't pull in the relay. When I returned to work on mon. I asked the engineer to check my layout to verify it was put together properly (I'm a Journeyman Machine Repair Person w/ 2yrs electrical fabrication experience) and wanted independent verification. Yep, it's built to spec. And he built it in a VR program w/ no luck... Since the electrical engineer at work is generally assigned to inventory and assess various things he took it upon himself to design a delay timer w/ a timer defeat function I requested. The prototype he built on breadboard works, and I will be replicating it ASAP and posting the schematic/pictures. About the timer defeat: I'm planning to install a pair of Bi-Xenon projectors on my XB9S. So using the bright switch as an on/off is out of the question. I don't want to rely solely on myself to remember to turn on the lights every time the bike is started either. So I'll be using the "passing" switch to bypass the resistors and instantly "time out" the circuit. (Message edited by h2owerker on September 21, 2008) | ||
| Court |
>>> If you quickly flash it on and off it will burn out very quickly. I'm a lot like that. I'm liking this thread . . . I've collected a smattering of different devices, controllers, bulbs, fixtures and so forth and am going to see if I can pin down the optimum combination of light & reliability. I need both in roughly equal measure and have scribed a design protocol and turned it over to humans much smarter than myself. Light is important. More light is **most of the time** better. The fewer things that have to be moved from OEM the better. Some of the lighting should be 100% (or close) reliable. If I am in the midst of Highway 50 (one of my favorites) at 2 AM I want to look like a 747 coming in to land . . . but if all the high zoot ballasts, starters and switches extinghuish . . . I want to be able to at least count on minimum lighting . . . .nothing is an unsat option. Fun stuff. For an interesting discussion . . .here are some folks who've had some experience. http://www.ironbutt.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 1708&PN=1&TPN=1 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21 2625 http://www.bobsibradventure.com/bike_mods.htm http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/auxlights.cfm | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hmm. I built mine right off those schematics, still working great. Maybe you accidentally nuked a transistor when setting it up, I've done that lots of times. If you still have it, hook it up and let it sit for a couple minutes, then measure the voltage across the base and emitter of the two transistors. Together they should be something like 1.2, alone they should eace be close to .6 or something. Lots of ways to do it, a 555 timer would make it more flexible and controllable, but then you need a regulator. If I were going to do it again, I would have used the lm339 qaud comparator that Oldog used for his volt meter. | ||
| H2owerker |
I think my power supply may be the culprit. I can't get the new design to work either, and the only thing I've changed from the breadboard prototype are the capacitors. I used some 16v instead of the 50v that he used... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just slapped together a new variable power supply last night for playing around with this stuff. LM317 I think, with an old 30V DC power adapter from an ancient deskjet. 16V or 50V should both work identically up to 16V. At 17V and above, they will continue to behave the same, until the 16V ones explode I finally threw away my old breadboard, too many flaky connection points. Got a new one for $13. |
