| Author | Message | ||
     Not_purple_s2 |
Ever since I heard about the motorsport park that's going to be built here in Mobile, AL I've really been fixated on the idea of track racing. I want to hear some advice from the amateur racers here... how did you get started? I have about 2yrs till the park opens here in town. Until then I need to get and set up a track bike, get my gear, and learn as much as I can. I can go to Birmingham to Barber Motorsports Park but it's a bit of a drive and so I can't catch every event. What should I expect to invest in this? I'm not expecting to jump into AMA Superbike racing, I just want to get some time in at the track and would really like to enter some races. What bike should I get to start with? Looks like 250's seem to be the starting point, even though I'd love to continue to ride Buell even on the track. My pie-in-the-sky idea is to get a nice used XB9R to set up for a track bike. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
You'd be better off with the XB. 250's are nuts! Start out with Track Days. Get the best helmet, gloves, boots and 1 pieces leathers you can afford. Sign up and take a Racing course if available. Take your test and get your license. As far as cost? All depends on how deep you want to dive into this sport. It can get very expensive very fast. Biggest mistake and quickest way to get out of racing is to spend tons of $$$$ right off the bat. If you can pick up a XB for a good price, strip it down, slap some numbers on it, get some race DOT tires and have fun. Make sure the suspension is set up correctly. Don't be too concerned with engine mods to start. There are guys I race with that run stock motors and belts and kick some ass. 2 won a few different track championships last year to top it off. Save money by camping at the track if allowed. Bring your own food. Can you deal with an open trailer? Cheaper than an enclosed. Initial investment is the biggest cost. Then it's bike maintenance and paying for the races. But Buell pays out on racers that do well and run XB's. I'm sure more will chime in. But that should get you started. | ||
| Slaughter |
Set as a FIRST goal - seat time on the track. Get comfortable on whatever bike you're going to be racing. Get into discussion boards for the organization you'll be racing with - out there are CCS/ASRA, WERA, and some local clubs. Check the rules - see what sounds best for you getting started. Sure, you can pick up a beater XB9 for $3-$4G but you might want to do a season on a bike that is easier on tires. Check your medical insurance. Many will not cover you in an organized race. Track days are usually not a problem. Medical insurance if YOU pay is more than $600 a month. Trust me, you CAN'T afford to cut corners on insurance. If you race every class the XB is elegible for and run a full practice day, you will destroy a set of tires every race weekend. Fees vary but expect something like $75 for first class, $50 for each additional class entered. Add maybe $75 to $100 for the practice day (Fri or Sat). Keep the engine pretty stock and save your money for suspension and brakes first. HANDLING will do much more to drop lap times than horsepower. Chain conversion might want to take priority ahead of engine mods after suspension setup. Spend as much time riding with racers on the track. If you CAN get to a school offered by CCS or WERA, that will get you the license and no requirement that you race. You can do the practice days without ever racing and you'll see good racers and have people to observe and follow who can show you a thing or two. YOU CANNOT learn racing on the street. You realy cannot learn performance riding on the street as well as you can on the track. GET A NOTEBOOK. It will become the MOST important tool you'll ever use in racing. Note all the things you are doing to the bike and note all the conditions. Work with the tire vendors AT THE TRACK - NOT the internet tire vendors (besides, their prices are usually as good as the discount houses and include mounting/balance). The vendors at the track KNOW the track, KNOW the temperatures and conditions that day and most likely they KNOW your bike well enough to recommend tire/compound selection and pressures. They can also "read" your tires when you come off the track and help you with suspension adjustments (assuming you're already adjusted pretty close) Gotta run - but there's much more. It IS an addiction but it IS a serious thing too and should be taken seriously. STRONGLY advise posting questions on the BBS for the race organization you would race with - ALL of them are very glad to have a "newbie" asking questions. Trust me. Have FUN! | ||
| Henrik |
You could probably pick up a reasonably priced, track prepped SV650 this time of year. It's a well tested platform with many aftermarket parts and a solid knowledge base wrt. suspension, set-up, motor mods etc. It can also be run in quite a few classes as long as you pay attention to the rule book. Get good - no, make that great protective gear. Vanson suits hold up well. Vanson sometimes have killer deals on used rental suits. Have fun Henrik | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
I was thinking of going with the SV650. Probably wouldn't burn thru tires as quickly and would be a good starting point. Plus it's still a v-twin. I think the smartest thing to do first would be to take a racing school course and see if I have any skills on the track. Now I just gotta find one. They should have them at Barber's | ||
| Buellrcr |
go head get a 9 or 12. the xb is faster and handles better than a sv . just my 2 cents. get good helmut, boots and gloves ,one peice suit. and get the forks done up, and a rear shock. best money spent, i lean more for the 12 | ||
| Vonsliek |
this is important .. get a BRILLIANT spine protector at a minimum .. top of shoulders to coccyx .. i use a dainese (being a barry sheene fan) .. i am not saying they are the best .. but mine saved me after a fairly decent SLAM! on my back .. the slam was enough to register after my brain had shut down to the point that i don't recall going down - just the before & the "look, my hands .. blue sky .. seems to be not moving .. ok, i must have stopped .. better get up!" no soreness in back after that one & i had nearly broke my nexk only a month or so previous .. back protector!!  | ||
| Dudeman |
Any recommendations on spine protectors? Bang for the buck... | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Dude. It's your back. Don't go for bang for buck. Get the best. I'd steer clear on the Icon version. | ||
| Vonsliek |
spend the money & get the ones the racers use: dainese, alpinestars, knox, spidi .. etc. cheap out & u may be wheelchair bound ... | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
thanks for the advice so far. Seems my main concern should be gear, and rightly so. I'll start saving up for that. On another note, I found a nice XB9 in MS on eBay. It's a salvage title but looks to be fully repaired save for a some scuffs. Unfortunately, I always find what I'm looking for before I have the means to get it. lol just my luck | ||
| Eboos |
Good quality back protectors are cheap enough anyway. Alpinestars' Tech Series back protector, which is their top one with the most coverage, costs only about $130. The Tech Race is about $110 and it comes free with some of their higher end suits. | ||
| Dudeman |
I don't know what a good buy is, therefore the question. There are big differences in price between say the Alpinestar Tech & Teknic 7 plate. | ||
| Henrik |
Take a look here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/229094.html?1158866009 I'd be vary of spine protectors with less than the full EN 1621-2 Level 2 CE certification. I'd also look for a spine protector that utilizes an absorbing material other than the honey-comb style. Reality is that you're likely to crash, and when you do - with a honeycomb style protector - you should replace your spine protector. Question is, will you ...? Henrik | ||
| Vonsliek |
james ellison swears by the *soft* ones knox make for him .. rossi has been experimenting w/ a full torso armour .. many motogp guys - when seen on bike in the flesh seem VERY barrell chested .. for skinny guys, it seemed wrong .. but then again .. the level of protection they wear .. explains the illusion of physical size! henrik .. i have the honeycomb dainese & now i am gonna inspect it .. ah .. back to ellison .. its abt not having a hard one that *jarrs* on impact .. he prefers to spread the impact .. cushioning it .. somethig to be said for that too. on another note .. i inspected the spidi range of 1 pc suits at recent bike show .. i nearly fell over when i picked up the kangaroo r2 suit .. what does that thing weigh .. abt an ounce??!! holy shit! my a-stars suit has been developing my biceps .. the spidi will hardly develop my little finger muscle! also, other spidi suits - even cowhide - are MUCH lighter than a-stars .. their representatives claim its the quality of leather & that they are still double & triple stitched over folded seems .. they use 1.1mil av. thickness leather, compared to a-stars 1.3-1.5mil. i am gonna try the spidi kangaroo .. if nothing else i will think i am faster because i will weigh closer to my 170# instead of scaling at nearly 200# in full gear! worth considering. | ||
| Gearhead |
Not_purple_s2 I've been lurking on this thread and I'd like to throw in my two cents. You're a pretty young guy so you've got lots of time to develop your racecraft. Start with track school training, then some track days to practice. The great thing is you can use your street bike, properly prepped, and save the cost of another machine, initially. Track days will also help you decide if you want to go to the next level. Just like others have mentioned, buy good equipment, first. I agree that the kangaroo suits are the way to go (wish I had one) and if you have a Parts Unlimited dealer in your area, they sell the MotoGp brand which is actually reasonably priced, the last time I checked. Helmet, gloves and boots are totally your choice. I totally understand the SV650 thing as I looked at them pretty hard before I found the 12 I converted into a track bike. Once you start doing track days you may be able to come across a good deal on a race bike so keep your options open. Read books and magizines about racing and performance riding. I find this really helps me. When my wife got me a subscription to Roadracer World, three years ago, I started seriously thinking about the racing thing. There are usually good articles about guys like us who what to go racing and did it. It helps to learn from their experiences. Get to some races as a spectator with the organization you would race with and take your notebook with your questions. Ask the racers when it's appropriate, talk to the tech guys and vendors, too. There's a ton of valuable information out there if you just ask. That's it for now, you're in the right place to get input though, these guys CAN answer your questions!! | ||
| Vonsliek |
a few other things .. since i am in similar boat .. british magazine "motorcycle racer" is a brilliant world scene resource, as well they had a brilliant cub racing thing most of 2006, where they brought a bashed up r6 from a race team in the r6 cup series .. some young aussies had ridden the tits off it .. anyway .. they went from inspection, repairs, prep, starting club racing & evealuating the experiences in detail thru to doing really well & then after season ended & they dod their wrap-up bit, they compared their old (now) r6 to the current, raced the current & decide to continue their endeavours & buy a new r6. u can look at local racing sites forums & find used, race prepped older bikes w/ all the doo-dads for under $3000 .. & yes, they are usually salvage bikes converted for racing .. but the things are tuned & suspension sorted & usually come w/ spares & original plastics, race plastics & sometimes tire warmers & other goodies .. w/ these u r looking at tired r6-type bikes w/ carbs, but they still haul for us beginners .. true! paul. | ||
| Jimidan |
I know this is a Buell site and all, and the following should not be interpreted as anything other than divulging my own experiences. I tried having a Buell S1 as a track day bike, but I found out that it really didn't work out too well. IMHO, these engines are just not durable enough to withstand WFO all the time, especially when modified. They make much better stock street engines than modded race engines. That is why I now have a Honda F4 racebike, which is a much better choice than that little Suzuki SV650, which is an economy bike. The Honda F4's motor is bullet proof (nicasil/ceramic/aluminum coated cylinders), cost a fraction of what an XB costs, and has a huge/cheap market all ready out there for parts. Like, I bought a complete spare F4 bike including engine with 12,000 miles on it and very minor crash damage (mainly the plastic) for $600...that is right, $600. This bike will supply me with spare parts for the rest of my racing life. Conversely, I spent $650 for JE forged pistons, rings and bore/hone job for my S1 the last time I scuffed the pistons. I was scuffing pistons about every 3 weekends. I was not missing shifts, but was revving to 7,000 RPM (the dyno sheet indicated that my engines pulled hard to and through 7 grand). I do all of my own assembly, so that part was not figured into the cost of this "maintenance". I also would pull the engine after about every 6 weekends and take it down to check the specs on everything, which is when I would usually have to change out the pistons too. One time I found the lobe of one of my cams was flaking off (SE 536's). I don't know if this schedule would be considered normal, but I had talked with Buell racer guys who were tearing down their engines every 3 race weekends (CCS). You will NOT have to do that with a Honda. So if you have plenty of money or a sponsor, race the Buell, as they sound bitchin, support the brand and are a lot of fun. I found out that like being a Republican  , that I just didn't have enough money to be in that club. jimidan | ||
| Henrik |
Just a thought; for racing for *fun* I'd be hesitant to dive into any of the 600-classes. They don't call them the "Meat Grinder" for nothing ... Here's a great email list for SV650 racers. You could post there and ask for track prepped bikes for sale: ADMIN ADDRESS: http://www.micapeak.com/mailman/listinfo/sv650 Roadracing world has a Classifieds section where you can find good deals as well. Henrik | ||
| Vonsliek |
haha .. meat grinder .. ;P awesome .. yeah, i was warned abt avoiding the 600's coz they are full of jumped up kids w/ no fear out to prove something & lacking the decency to consider where others might be. would that make liter classes any safer then? :\ | ||
| Diablobrian |
Lightweights are THE place to start. No joke. It takes more skill to go fast on a low hp bike. You have to learn to be smooth and carry speed through the corner. You can't "point and shoot" with a LW. Horse power will not make up for a blown corner entrance or exit  It is a great place to hone your skills if you've been away from racing too. | ||
| M1combat |
The SV is an excellent trackbike Jimmi... It may not be as quick as an XB, but they certainly get the job done and to be honest it would still take a hell of a rider to extract enough performance out of a decently prepped SV that the bike would be the limiting factor. The bikes are bulletproof (unless you get a ?2002?). Other than the one year where they made a change to the clutch or the trans they last a good long time. As far as your S1 trackbike being a little less than perfectly reliable ... Well we all know that . Try an XB . | ||
| Diablobrian |
2003 is the year of SV650 that grenaded because of bottom end issues. Ask me how I know  The up side of that was it started a chain of events that ended with us racing a Buell | ||
| Mutation_racer |
buell is the only way to go. and this is why  | ||
| Trojan |
The SV is an excellent trackbike Jimmi... It may not be as quick as an XB, but they certainly get the job done and to be honest it would still take a hell of a rider to extract enough performance out of a decently prepped SV that the bike would be the limiting factor. I agree, an SV is a very good bike to start on and will be as quick as most XB's anyway. A well set up SV can embarrass a lot of so called' proper sportsbikes' too and therre are loads of go faster bits available for them. Most seem utterly reliable and I know plenty of SV racers that just add fuel and race, with no maintenance all year (try that with an XB!). You can make them look pretty good too   This one has MotoGP inspired bodywork designed specifically designed for the SV650 by SDC Performance in England. This particular bike is for sale at just GBP1700 (around US$3250) and is ready to race! | ||
| Jimidan |
M1 sez: "As far as your S1 trackbike being a little less than perfectly reliable ... Well we all know that . Try an XB ." It really wasn't the chassis that was high maintenance, but rather the engine. I had no issues for anything on the S1 chassis. I preferred the S1 to the XB chassis, probably because I have so little seat time on the XB. The XB seems positively twitchy compared to the S1 to me, but I like that 55" wheelbase w/standard front end geometry feel. Plus, I wasn't comparing an SV650 to an XB, but rather my Honda 600 F4. "That is why I now have a Honda F4 racebike, which is a much better choice than that little Suzuki SV650, which is an economy bike." The Honda is much more of a racebike right off of the showroom floor than the SV650, which is more of an economy bike. I have a Penske shock on it and the forks Race Teched. The only thing I have done to the engine is to mill the head 15 thousands, full Erion exhaust, K&N, & Jet kit. It weighs a little less than 400 lbs. and has 104 HP. It is easy to ride fast, for sure. There are a slew of SV650 racing in CCS and ASRA, and I have no doubts that the motor is very reliable...probably as good as the Honda, and much better than the Harley for racing. | ||
| Slaughter |
Don't know in which race organizations you plan on racing - but check the rules and class definitions. That will really help you select a bike much more than the spec sheets for any particular bike. Chosing a race bike is WAAAAAAY different than chosing a streetbike. Often the lightweight twins or middleweight twins are a REALLY cheap way to get into racing and there is a lot of competition without suffering in HUGE fields of racers. The smaller displacement classes are REALLY easy on tires too. There's a BIG difference between a bike that uses up $350 worth of tires in a weekend and a bike that uses up $700 worth of tires in a season! Usually there is one class that is ideal for any bike but that bike can also be raced in a few others as well. It's nice to run 2-4 classes on one bike. Out here, there are very few classes where an SV650 and a (fill in the blank) inline four are actually racing against each other. There are classes that both are elegible to enter but the SV is outclassed in a toe-to-toe race. The middleweight classes that have the 600-class I-4's running are ALL bloodbaths - regardless of race organization. Huge fields and tons of impatience and inexperience. Good spectator entertainment with all the crashes but they seem to finish under red flags way too often. Check your rules and class definitions and see what would work best. I have heard of a few clubs that do mix a huge variety of bikes together and run fewer classes. That would NOT be my preference for racing. Some even have the Novices on the track the same time as Experts. Dangerous and bad. AFM has had as many as 50-60 at one time - Novice AND Expert at one time. That's insane. I'd think that it'd be a good idea to be planning on running a couple seasons on a bike that you plan on ditching once you are more familiar with racing. You might want to change classes after you have seen what's out there and what the other classes look like. By all means, find the discussion board that your race organization has and post there, ask questions. Get to one or two races to see how they're setup. See which classes look more to your liking on the basis of size of fields, type of bike, etc - and then ask questions of the racers. You'll find (generally) most club racers are extremely helpful | ||
| Buell2001b |
JIMMYDan and TROJAN, take your sorry JAPPY bikes out of here. this is BUELL, you wnat to talk about your japp bikes go to another forum. | ||
| Trojan |
Buell2001b, Read the question that was asked at the top of the post and you'll see that this thread isn't just about Buells. It is about what is the best bike to start racing with. A Buell XB may well be one of those bikes, although an SV or similar may be better for a complete novice as there are more of them around to buy and they are a lot less labour intensive, so he can concentrate on just learning/riding. | ||
| Gearhead |
I've seen several comments that the Buells race/track bikes are more labor intensive than other makes. Are you guys taking about making more power or maintainance? I've just started racing with all of ONE race day under my belt on my XB12R but haven't seen a lot of extra labor required on it or my street XB12R. Granted, I'm really a novice and I'm asking to learn more not to start an argument. |
