| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Of course he is, and posting to it as well.. | ||
| Jscott |
Dean, what's your take on the whole Buell FX no-show for 2007?  Or... Perhaps we have already heard his take. Is Dean actually Pioggia_di_parata? (Message edited by JScott on January 03, 2007) | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket and M1combat, You young bulls are funny, lol! Still want to run down the hill and... The rider has much more to do with track days or canyon carving than the bike, assuming that they are even in the same class. Us old guys know that you can only use so much HP on a public road with curves, the rest is guts, balls, intestinal fortitude, courage, stupidity, myopia, or just a plain ol' death wish, not necessarily in that order. There is a guy at our local racetrack that is a dynamite rider, and he waits until Sunday afternoon in one of the last sessions to bring out his old 70's vintage BMW and teach us this lesson again, if any of us need reminding. Unless you are in the league with the very best club racers, you will never see the limits of the stock XB, and maybe not then. You will certainly find your own though. Be like the old bulls and WALK down there and do 'em all! jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
May I offer a suggestion: Why don't you Anony guys assign a number to your name, like Anony1, Anony2,..., so that we will know if it is the nice Anony or the mean Anony before we read it. It would save a lot of time for us. Thanks, Jimidan | ||
| Rocketman |
I realise I was referencing the R1 from the MCN report, but if you are as well read or informed even, as I am, you will note that often the R6 beats the R1 on track or twisty. That's because the R1 offers a lot of horse power which only danger men like myself can respect to get the best out of one. Any pussycat doll can get fantastic results on an R6. The XB needs an experienced pilot to get the best out of one, given its 250GP bike like geometry and its need to be held in gear to carry high corner speed. Rocket | ||
| Court |
I love it . . . assigning names to allow folks to differentiate anonymous people. I see now why the MENSA test was such a bitch. Thanks Al Gore!  | ||
| Jscott |
"I love it . . . assigning names to allow folks to differentiate anonymous people." Who has dibs on "Deep Throat"?  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Kind of like "V"'s response in V for vendetta when Evie ask him who he is Court? | ||
| Blake |
Sean, Have you ever ridden a Buell XB? No? Yer funny. Ever ridden the new R6? No? Yer REALLY funny. Reducing the amount of gearshifting in a lap is one very effefctive way to reduce lap times. Matt Mladin knows this. If you had raced, you'd know this too. Jimi, "Unless you are in the league with the very best club racers, you will never see the limits of the stock XB, and maybe not then." Couldn't say it better! Duc, I too appreciate the looks of the black and yellow R6. It's a testament to what can be done with plastic and paint. I do like the elimination of the old-style side-mounted muffler too, a truly inspired notion that. | ||
| Speed_daddy |
As a possible answer to the question of XB12R vs R6 you all need not look any further than the Canadian Superbike series. The Buells and 600s compete on the same track the same day, and a few riders ride both, so lap times can be compared. | ||
| Trojan |
Having raced a modified Buell against Supersport spec R6/CBR600?GSXR600's on a few occasions I can certainly state this....Most of the Jap 600's will see off an XB even with equal riders aboard. You can have the best handling bike with the best low down drive and torque in the world, but when they breeze past on the straights going 20 mph faster there really isn't much you can do  The XB (other than the XBRR of course) was never designed to race against these bikes so the comparison is really pretty fruitless anyway. For real world performance, take a look at the Performance Bikes magazine test track times for an interesting comparison of relative performance. This is a pretty good indicator of performance on what would be fast road conditions (not race track) and is carried out at Bruntingthorpe proving ground, where the UK Auto industry test their products. All the times were set with the same rider aboard every bike so to keep the playing field pretty level, and all the times are gathered using state of the art GPS based data logging. You can see the times etc at www.performancebikes.co.uk (You wil have to register on the site but it is worth it) I am very proud to say that our Buell is still the 11th fastest bike on the PBTT, despite giving away huge amounts of horsepower and top speed to most of the other top 20 bikes. The top '600' bike is the Triumph 675 in 22nd position (two places behind the stock XB12R), with the 2006 R6 in 44th place. If this same test was carried out on a smooth race track the results would be very different, and I doubt we would figure in the top 20 at all Interestingly, the 4th fastest bike overall is a completely stock KTM 990 Superduke, only beaten by a full on race R1, a very modified road R1 and a stock GSXR1000 (06). Deeply impressive.... Horses for courses anyone? As an aside...We have a four page feature for our race bike in the next issue of PB | ||
| Rocketman |
Reducing the amount of gearshifting in a lap is one very effefctive way to reduce lap times. I believe that was my point Blake? The XB needs an experienced pilot to get the best out of one, given ...................................... its need to be held in gear to carry high corner speed. And the point about that point was / is, if you carry high corner speed on an XB it takes skill and experience to do so. So I read somewhere. Rocket | ||
| Speed_daddy |
For real world performance? I thought I was on a Buell "racing" forum. Real world performance is and always will be subjective. Same bikes on the same tracks with same riders. Lap times don't lie, although riders may! | ||
| M1combat |
"Unless you are in the league with the very best club racers, you will never see the limits of the stock XB, and maybe not then." I don't know about that... I've crashed on mine twice now. I now know EXACTLY how much traction an oily front tire has, and how much traction a VERY cold front tire has . One of these days maybe I'll know just how far over it'll lean with race slicks (and not make sparks) . | ||
| Vonsliek |
hey M1 .. i had pirelli super corsa on front & regular corsa on rear last summer up in canada .. maybe 25 deg C .. (?80F) & i managed to scrape the freaking sidestand!! this year i intend to get as 250cc corner speed as i can, & i may just well spring for slicks & tire warmers just to see .. nothing like having unanswered questions clouding ones performance (or lack thereof) .. ;P | ||
| Vagelis46 |
This Performance's Bike test is really good. Anyone that has ridden the KTM 990, knows how powerfull its V-2 engine is. It is faster than a 999. I just wonder what an otherwise stock XB, powered by the KTM engine would do. Maybe you would have a new winner ??? | ||
| Jimidan |
M1combat sez: "Unless you are in the league with the very best club racers, you will never see the limits of the stock XB, and maybe not then." I don't know about that... I've crashed on mine twice now. I now know EXACTLY how much traction an oily front tire has, and how much traction a VERY cold front tire has . One of these days maybe I'll know just how far over it'll lean with race slicks (and not make sparks) . So, young bull, you are putting your self in that elite class of the very best club racers? OK. I don't know you and have never seen you on a track...maybe you are. I never said that you couldn't wreck an XB...shucks, anybody can do that. I said that the limits of the XB could be seen by only the very best club racers. They have the skillset necessary to push it to "its" limits...and that doesn't mean their own. Just because you wrecked your bike doesn't mean that you exceeded its limits. Why do you blame it on the bike that you crashed? There are so many things that can go wrong. For example, we all have seen a tight group go though a fast corner full tilt boogie, and the middle guy looses the front end for no apparent reason to the casual observer. He was going exactly the same speed as the others, and leaning it in at the same angle. Yet he lowsides and nobody else in the train does. Was it the bike that he was on that caused it? Setup? The rider's inability to feel the feedback coming from the front tire? Or the tires? Or a combination of all. The best riders have amazing skills honed by many hours of testing on the track. They are able to get the setup just right and read the feedback from both ends like Hellen Keller in a waffle iron factory. The limits of the modern sportbike are not what holds nearly all young bulls back from becoming a pro racer, it is their own. I am not good enough to feel the minor suspension settings of the Ohlins on my Ducati. I could come in to the pits and set the compression up one click (I think it has like 20 clicks in high speed compression alone) and go back out and can't feel any difference in feedback. Two clicks and I feel it...I think. But let Walt Sipp take a few laps on my bike and he could feel it easily. Jason Pridmore could feel a pea under 100 mattresses. Maybe you can too. jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
Vangelis sez: Anyone that has ridden the KTM 990, knows how powerfull its V-2 engine is. It is faster than a 999. I have ridden the KTM Adventurer, and let me assure you that it is not even in the same league with my 998 Ducati engine. IT is a nice and compact unit, but it is no powerhouse in that state of tune. The KTM does it with corner speed and clearance, kind of like the Uly.} | ||
| Trojan |
Jimidan, Don't confuse the KTM 950 Adventure engine with the 990 Superduke motor, they are chalk and cheese. The Adventure engine is detuned at around 90bhp and is fed by carbs, whilst the Superduke is 120bhp, tuned for top end and is injected. John Barnett won the UK New Era Sound of Thunder race series in 2006 riding a very lightly modified 990 KTM (exhaust and fuelling mods only), beating some very quick 999 and 998 Ducatis along the way. He also set fastest laps and pole positions, so it was no fluke. He wrapped up the season by finishing third in a Superstock race against GSXR1000/R1/CBR1000RR etc. The 2007 Superduke promises to be even better.   The same rider won a Thunderbike race in the rain at Lydden riding a factory spec Aprilia SVX550 Supermoto  | ||
| Rocketman |
Not to put the KTM Super Duke down at all, but Matt there seems to be an exceptional pilot at the helm on that one too. Speaking of putting down, I'm with Combat. For all anyone knows he could be a fantastic rider, but it's the norm that one is never allowed to 'boast' of ones capability when it comes to motorcycle riding. That's dumb. I'm super bloody good and can beat either of the Troy's down the B1357. Troy (a different one)  | ||
| Trojan |
John Barnett is a very good rider of course, but that shouldn't take anything away from the KTM. It will be very interesting to see the comparitive lap times when they kick off the new Superduke one make series that is supporting the British Superbike series this year. I think a lot of people will be surprised. Remember a bog stock 990 S/Duke (not even run in) is 4th fastest on the PB test track. | ||
| Blake |
Sean, You should know that boasting don't play here. We prefer results. You know, like an XBRR racer whooping up on all manner of superbikes, literbikes and such. You know, results. Not boasting. Don, Proof of knowing the limits is in lap times. I've crashed. I have no idea of the limits of my bike yet. I still ride extremely conservatively. I don't like crashing. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Trojan |
We prefer results. You know, like an XBRR racer whooping up on all manner of superbikes, literbikes and such. You know, results. Not boasting. Too much Turkey at Christmas makes you halucinate Blake. I don't remember the XBRR whooping up a bunch of litre bikes or superbikes (that Ducati at Daytona last year was not a full on superbike spec 999. Nor was the rider exactly world class either (a couple of local wild card entries trailing round at the back of a WSB race don't make a superstar). | ||
| Court |
>>>>Nor was the rider exactly world class either I gotta give ya that, thought the Ducati folks insist otherwise on the bike. I'm trying to imagine a world class rider who lifts the throttle on the front straight because he coughed and fogged his shield. If I recall that was kinda what the excuse was. On the other hand . . . the last time I won a race or a gymnastics competition, no one gather all the contestants, listened to and evaluated their respective tales of woe and chose the winner. First one cross the line . . . . | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, considering I was bringing some humorous content to the thread, Troy signature and emoticon (something you keep telling me to use by the way), why are you acting like such a grumpy old fart? Rocket (faster down the B1753 than GP stars) | ||
| Blake |
Sean, You misread. No grumpiness here at all. Blake is a happy man, most always. Life is great! I don't know if the guy riding the XBRR was world class either. He was a good rider. I thought that the Duc 999R superbike rider was an ex WSB racer, no? It sure is funny how when Buell does win, it ain't ever really a win. I don't get it Matt. You are a pro-Buell fan, no? Come on and enjoy the successes when we can get 'em! Did you forget about the XBRR win at Magny Cours? And the solo-endurance win at Road America? Both against literbike superbikes, admittedly the field at Magny Cours was mostly populated by V-Twin literbike superbikes. But, in both cases, the XBRR rider won. Please, I really don't care to hear why those wins are not worthy of celebration.  | ||
| Toadboy |
Hi all, I'm mostly a lurker here, but this thread has some pretty interesting reading. To kinda sorta bring this thread back to Buell not participating in AMA FX, I've got a few questions that I've been noodling on while I've been reading these posts: 1. How much of Buell 'abandoning' FX is really a redirection of money and attention towards MOTO-ST? 2. Is it so important that Buell doesn't race in AMA as long as it races in a very high classification of American racing somewhere? I ask this because I've recently discovered RoadRacing World. The past two months have had great articles about MOTO-ST and also about Dan Bilansky's win of the ASRA Thunderbike Championship. It certainly seems that there is a place for Buell Racing and for the XBRR in American motorcycle racing. For me, this definitely overrules any disappointment I may have had regarding Buell (the company, not the person) not putting more attention towards AMA this year. I look forward to following Buell racers this year in series other than AMA. It'll be much more exciting than waiting for v3.0 of the Motoczysz vaporware. | ||
| M1combat |
Sorry... That whole "I know the limits" thing was said very much tongue in cheek... Read it again. You MIGHT notice this time that I said that I know the limits of the front tire in two very specific sets of circumstances... In case you were wondering ... both of those crashes happened in parking lots at next to no lean angle at all... | ||
| Jimidan |
Oppps, didn't see ya' wink. | ||
| Blake |
Toad, The whole premise of the thread, that Buell made a full season factory effort in AMA FX last year but has dropped out for 2007 is horribly false. There was no full season effort last year, no factory team, and so the premise is false. People are funny. The XBRR was always and only ever released as a ready to race Buell for privateers and dealer teams to race. The bikes were intentionally assembled and pre-approved for the AMA FX so that Buell racers desiring to go racing in AMA FX would be able to do so with the XBRR. There isn't any shifting of resources by the factory on account of beyond getting the bikes built and running some extremely limited testing and development there were no significant resources to shift. Not sure there will be any factory effort in Moto-ST. I doubt there will be. I'm sure the Buell Racing support crew will be there to lend a hand as much as possible to all the Buell teams who participate. But that will probably be the extent of it. I'm anxious to see my friend Steve Slaughter get his team up and out there in the Moto-ST arena. He's a sharp cookie. I expect positive things. |
