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Betzy
| | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 03:50 pm: | 
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Ok I have a great weather day today +10 and sunny. For Ontario that's rare this time of year. Anyway I get out and almost right away she(2002 X1) with D&D and K&N air filter, race ECM, starts coughing. I don’t go more than 5 min and she gets really bad!! Like it stalls whenever I let off the gas and cost with clutch in. I recently had a bad O2 sensor go in my car and that is what this feels like but way worst, I had to pull off the road twice on the way home after I turned around. Sounded awful like it ran on only one cyl for a while then the other would kick in. For a bit it would just really bark like in slow mode as if they were firing at half speed. This is the first time she let me down, hope its nothing huge.
Have to say; a while back a huge wasp or bee flew right in my gas tank like he was a suicide bomber or something. I picked up a fuel filter just in case, do you think that's it??
Thks |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:22 am: |
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it won't hurt to replace your filter BUT
You need to do some trouble shooting first.
Are you getting a engine light IE a trouble code?
Check the plugs make sure they are not fouled.
Then check the wires, make sure they have the right specs (see man.)
then check the voltage for the O2 and Head temp sensor.
Before you replace anything try and isolate the problem.... |
New12r
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:24 am: |
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Prolly fouled out a plug. My bike is always glitchy in cold weather and the front cylinder usually fouls on cold starts.
You did let it get reallly warm before you started riding right? |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:29 am: |
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Speaking of easy...
If the plugs seem ok you may just need a TPS or AFV re-set.
You can re-set the AFV (adaptive fuel value) yourself by riding 60mph in 4th gear for 2 min.
just a few inexpensive steps for ya... |
Betzy
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Yes I did let it warm up good before the ride, I will check the plugs. Not quite sure what you mean Spiderman as to the right specs for wires?
No engine light at all is showing up.
Just had the dealer do a TPS reset in the summer, they charged me 240$ big ones, something they said was jammed. I think the guy just didnt know what he was doing. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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In your service manual it will tell you the correct ohms the wire should carry and other various tests... |
Naustin
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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Has the bike been sitting a long time prior to riding it the other day? Perhaps you have a clogged/varnished fuel injector?
If you've been occasionally idling it while it has been parked - just to warm it up - you may have fouled a plug too.
Another suspect is the intake seals. They do wear out and will occasionally crack. If the bike has been sitting in the cold prior to taking it out the other day, that's a good possibility as well. |
Betzy
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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Pardon the ignorance I'm still learning, intake seals are located where exactly? near the air box entry if I'm not completely lost?! |
Oz666
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:15 pm: |
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Intake seals are between the intake manifold and the cylinder head. There are two. Not expensive but a P.I.T.A. to do the first time. I fabed a couple o' tools that can make it a little easier/possible.
If you could use some assistance, email me or LordDeathScyte. We are not that far away & he has scan tool for TPS reset - might cost you lunch, but you would have a MUCH better job done.
 Oz |
Naustin
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 03:01 pm: |
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To give you an idea, to get to the intake seals you have to remove the air-box, disconnect the fuel lines and remove the fuel tank. Remove the intake manifold and throttle body, which entails disconnecting the throttle cables and fuel injectors. This is the easy part. Now you have to get the bolts out of the cylinder head which is where making your own tools comes into play...
You can test the intake seals by spraying water at them. Do not spray carb cleaner, or wd40 or other products you may find suggested on other threads on BWB. Spray plain old water. If the idle changes, you have a leak. WD40 or Carb cleaner will work to detect a leak, but the chemicals are bad for the rubber seals and could make them worse, and they stink when the hit the hot motor and burn.
Read my profile. It took me three attempts to detect a leak. I finally found it by spraying water and I was spraying a LOT of water from several angles before I found the leak.
Keep in mind, the suggestion to check your intake seals is based on my own experience and is subject to my bias. I'm not a mechanic and I'm "still learning" too.
Good luck. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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Who's not still learning?
You? you'se dead then!  |
Betzy
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 06:15 pm: |
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I still have full extended warranty on her too, but I suppose the intake seals are not covered?
Anyone tried to have them done under warranty? |
Oz666
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 07:02 pm: |
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$50 deductable (at least here in the US) on warranty work. The seals are ~$10. If you DIY, bike is not "held hostage" at the dealer while the work is done.
Test it just like Naustin sez...
(Grumpy's correct also...)
Oz |
Bad_karma
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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Betzy
Was the battery fully charged? Is it charging? Just another idea.
Joe |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 03:59 am: |
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Intake seals sure are covered under warranty.
Sounds like fouled plugs to me. In that kind of low temperature, try running a 0W40 engine oil and the next grade hotter spark plugs. |
Naustin
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:06 am: |
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The temp wasn't that cold when the problem occurred. He's talking 10 degree C I'm pretty certain - which translates to about 50 degrees F. That's not cold enough to worry about running different oil or plugs, at least I've never had any problems around that temp. In fact, my bike seems to be happiest in 50 degree crisp weather. Nice cold air to breath.
Definitely check those plugs though...
Take Oz666 up on the offer to help if possible. A fellow BWBer is probably a better bet than a dealer tech on getting a repair done right the first time...
Good luck
Nick |
Betzy
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 01:09 am: |
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Yup Like naustin Said, 10 degrees Celsius. Plugs where black powder like covered and really loose to take out, oops no lock tite last time.
OZ666 where are you at, thanks for the offer I might take you up on that one fine day, right now I have rocker box gasket issues too , so i am going to bring it in to the dealer and let them give her a once over all under warranty hopefully, make the 50$ worth while. |
Pammy
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 07:29 am: |
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NEVER loctite the spark plugs. You should use antiseize only.
And please don't use carb cleaner to check for a leak. Remember, carb cleaner isn't kind to rubber parts and there is an O2 sensor in line there.
Intake seals are covered for 5 years even without the extended warranty(in the US anyway). I don't believe the $50 deductable applies.
(Message edited by pammy on December 21, 2006) |
Oz666
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 07:59 am: |
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What Pammy sez...
I have had good results with NAPAs pure silicone lube, also. I use it on all parts I want to be able to disassemble - i.e. plug threads and the top of the plug/inside the plug boot. Please be advised I am using aftermarket wires with silicone jackets and boots which will "seal" themselves to the plug w/o lube.
My location? Why, The Emerald City in The Merry Old Land of Oz of course.
Oz |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:06 am: |
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Is that silicone spray safe for the for the O2 sensor? |
Betzy
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:26 am: |
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Have to say this, when I took of the airbox cover to inspect the air filter and clean it all out, everything was wet with I think gas, but it was a bit dark with black powder in it. That little sensor to read the air temp, would it be toast now being expose to fuel?
Thanks for the tips, no lock tite on plugs!!
Thanks Pammy for the info on seals. |
Betzy
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:38 am: |
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Oldog
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:53 am: |
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The symptoms are consistant with the rear head temp sensor being "drifted" eventualy it will fail and you will get a "lite",
I have had no luck using a meter for reading the device. I have had this failure on my '01,
the symptoms.
1. the plugs are sooty
2. bike warms up ok but while riding near or at OT it runs bad (rich) stumbles coughs wants to shut down
3. problem is inttermitting ( comes and goes )
NOTE there are several other electrical possibilities the ET is the most common
I recomend that you hook up with Oz and get his buddy to check the readings from the sensor through the ecm. As an external meter reading is of little value
240$ to reset the TPS ???????? !!!!!!!!!!
FIND ANOTHER SERVICE OUTLET!
with a warmed engine a tps is a 15 minute job, unless the Throttle body is bad, in which case 240$ is fair IMO Warranty coverage? would have covered it..
Fmj and others say intake seal replacement at every 2 years or so if your seals are original on a "tuber" they are likely due for replacement.
leaking intake seals cause a lean condition and you are saying that the plugs are covered with a "fluffy, black soot" that is rich ..
----------------- edit -----------------------
the wet stuff is likely "spooge" (oil and water from the crank case breathers in the heads), unless you maintain the air box with great care the black stuff is dirt! the air box is a great sound deadener but is lousy at keeping dirt out, that is exactly what my air box looked like when I took it off, A ham can or force winder are much better choices for a filter setup, also check the bootie under the Throttle body to make sure that its present
If you are interested check the KV I believe that I have posted info on the refit, FYI you dont need the FI force winder kit, get the standard and save a few bucks,
You will want to do the xb rocker box or get a banjo bolt kit / catch can the FW breather bolts are aluminum and will cause grief/leak
I will post a pic of my install tonight
good luck..
From the porch the OlDog.....
(Message edited by OlDog on December 21, 2006) |
Oz666
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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Silicone spray will make a HUGE mess and is difficult to remove. Save it for the snowblower. (For those who wear a parka when the temp drops below 55 degrees, a snowblower is like a bagging mower w/o the bag - NOT what made the snowman smile) I was referring to the lube (made for disk brakes, I think) that comes in a toothpaste-like tube. Looks and feels kinda like petroleum jelly, but no petrochemicals.
Oz |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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if you neverseize the plugs, be aware that most formulations are very good conductors -- you'll have easy-to-remove plugs that will not fire, if you belong to the "if a little is good, alot is better" school of chemical application |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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That sounds pretty good, actually, 'cause if they won't fire, you've gotta take 'em out anyway...
Prob'ly OK if you keep the never-seize on the threads and outta the gap, though.
rt |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
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if ya get some on the insulator, you can create an alternate ground path that does not include the electrode -- straight from the plug wire boot to the head --
learn from my mistakes, and go make your own, darnit!
;-} |
Pammy
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:57 pm: |
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It's ANTI-seize, dangit.
The ANTI-seize causes them to NEVER seize.
cheeze and crackers...youze guys... |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:00 pm: |
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;-}
I allus thought if you used neverseize, it would anti . . . . . . . .
oh |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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Gesundheit. |
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