| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
I would be willing to donate $200-300 each year, if I knew that Buell would do a serious racing efford with full factory support. What I would like in return is Buell to run a competitive machine to make me proud of contributing. Also 10% off in spare parts would make this a good investment. I think that there must be 10,000-20,000 individuals around the world that think the same way. Something like racing shares and shareholders. That way the factory could get started with racing without much care for sponsors in the beggining. Then when starting showing progress, sponsors will show up. Let me remind you that when Ducati started racing the 851, the company was small and in deep financial trouble. But they did it anyway, and it proved a great move, since they started winning. Now they have earned RESPECT. But Italians think racing and sport motorbikes are going together. I totally agree. You need passion for racing to get started. Cagiva which was a small company also raced and had good results. They had racing passion. H-D has no racing passion. Buell can race and I think has racing passion. But you CANNOT race with an air-cooled engine. It is suicide. An air-cooled engine can be great for the street and track days, but it cannot win anything in top level racing. Buell needs either to develop a new water-cooled engine, or use the VR1000, or get one from another proven manufacturer(Ducati, Rotax,etc). It is no problem for me to drive an air-cooled bike on the street and on trackdays, knowing that a water-cooled Buell is competitive in top level racing either FX,AMA,WSBK, WWSS etc. That would make me proud and willing to donate money for the efford. Getting us donating money can be the answer to the money problem. | ||
| Buellshyter |
I would donate and I like the idea of a grassroots effort. Oh, and don't forget to throw in something special at the track for the card carrying team supporters - like a tee-shirt or a team tent ( think Nascar ). Keep it simple - keep it pure and keep it in the family | ||
| Rocketman |
There may be a lot of truth in what you say Anony, but for me it's a very lame excuse when you do the math for the dollars involved. In fact I'd go out on a limb and say Harley, be it the motorcycle manufacturer, or the corporate giant, maybe both, are doing Buell an injustice when it comes to racing. With respect, it seems to all intents and purposes that's what you are saying. Or you're excusing them. You choose. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
"If the parent company doesn't feel it's worth it, who will?" Who built the bikes and supports all who race them? Oh yeah, that would be...  | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, The "Moco" is Harley-Davidson Motor Company (HDMC). They do not own Buell. They are a subsidiary of Harley-Davidson Incorporated (HDI) just like Buell is a subsidiary of HDI. Other than to sell more engines, HDMC has little incentive to invest in or help market BMC. They spend their racing money on flat track and drag racing. | ||
| Blake |
Facts is facts Rocket. There were no excuses, just an honest estimation of the situation, a very accurate estimation it seems to me. Save your "lame excuse" insults for those deserving. It certainly ain't BMC's fault if HDI won't sponsor a factory racing team. | ||
| Mcgiver |
Ok, the way I see it, is if we want to see Buell in AMA racing in the near future, we are going to have to get it going ourselves.Vagelis stated he would be willing to donate 200-300 dollars per year to help sponsor a race team, wanting only a t-shirt. I would gladly do the same, could the shirt say (OFFICIAL BUELL RACING SPONSOR). If we all did this could we raise enough money? And I think it would have to be for one dealer effort, not like the contingincy fund we raised in the past. I think if we were able to raise a sizable amount than it might be easer to get other sponsors to help.What do you think? On second thought I would gladly donate more if it will work. Brian  | ||
| Mcgiver |
Lets get something going guys, weve got less than 3 months to make it work. And its a lot more productive than sitting here saying someone else should be doing it.If your really a Buell fan than lets get off our ass, and put your money were your mouth is(or typing fingers). Didn't the H.O.G. do this with Lucifer's hammer? Brian | ||
| Mcgiver |
What did reality scare everyone off? Fine I guess ill just have to win the lottery and do it myself.  | ||
| Rocketman |
Facts is facts Rocket. There were no excuses, just an honest estimation of the situation, a very accurate estimation it seems to me. I said nothing to the contrary. Save your "lame excuse" insults for those deserving. I did. That would be HDI, which I thought I was clear about the first time? It certainly ain't BMC's fault if HDI won't sponsor a factory racing team. I agree. Again, I said nothing to the contrary. Frankly I 'd kick those big fat filthy rich Jewish fellas off the board of directors, and the Upper House come to it. Then we might get Buells in racing and peace in the Middle East too. Wow, imagine that! Rocket | ||
| Elvis |
Imagine this: BMW motorcycles would like to spend 10 million on advertising, so they hit up BMW auto: BMW Moto: You know, we think 10 million dollars for advertising could really help us out. Would you please write us a check? BMW Auto: Sure, when will you pay it back? BMW Moto: Well here's the thing. We don't know if it will work. If we knew it would work, we'd just go to the bank, borrow it and then pay it back when we could. We figured you could just give it to us because, you know, you're a lot bigger than us, so that's not a lot of money to you. BMW Auto: Well see, 10 million is only a small amount of our operating budget, but it is money that we could spend for our own advertising, R & D, Racing, etc. . . so why don't you just go to Hell . . . with all due respect. It's really not a matter of how much money Harley does or doesn't have or how much we think they should spend. Until someone can say . . . with certainty . . . that the investment will pay for itself, Harley isn't going to be interested Sure I'd love to see a Buell racing program, but not because I know X dollars spent will result in Y dollars of increased net profit. I want to see it because it would be cool. If a dealer team can put something together and our money will help, I'll gladly send several hundred. That's not an investment, it's money spent on a hobby. Just like I spend money on my bike and I spend money going to races and I spend money on other things that are fun without any expectation of ever getting it back. Businesses can't operate that way. The can't spend money because it will be cool and fun. They have to spend money that will come back to them and help them continue to make bikes. Like I said before. If I had 10 million dollars, I'd spend 1 million on something like this. It would be a cool hobby . . . not an investment. | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket sez: Frankly I 'd kick those big fat filthy rich Jewish fellas off the board of directors, and the Upper House come to it. Then we might get Buells in racing and peace in the Middle East too. Wow, imagine that! So the Jews killed Christ, were responsible for all wars, are preventing peace in the Middle East, have taken over Hollywood, and now are responsible for Buells not having a factory team in AMA FX? What a burden that God's chosen people must bear! jimidan | ||
| Court |
Just a couple random thoughts . . . . >>>>I'd love to see a Buell racing program I suspect you'll be one happy camper. >>>>we are going to have to get it going ourselves. Well, we could sure help. Few folks understand the power of a well written, positive letter. Going on the internet and insulting folks, in my personal experience, is a poor way to motivate them to do what I want. Goodness. . . what would Aubrey Daniels say? >>>>HDMC has little incentive to invest in or help market BMC. HD has a HUGE, unbelievably HUGE, incentive to invest in Buell. Motorcycles, like chaff dispensed from the belly of a bomber, serve to obscure the real reasons. Engines are small change. I'm going to be out of pocket for a while starting in January, but place my mark in the "DO SOMETHING POSITIVE" camp. I'd be willing to start by sending Dave Gess a check for $300 marked "Buell Racing". History tells me one thing. . . even though I don't know where my money is going, at the time I send it, it's going to do some good and make a difference. Quote me. . .
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| Smoke |
im in! Dave, are you willing to spearhead the effort? tim | ||
| Rocketman |
So the Jews killed Christ, were responsible for all wars, are preventing peace in the Middle East, have taken over Hollywood, and now are responsible for Buells not having a factory team in AMA FX? What a burden that God's chosen people must bear! Gods chosen people? That's taking it a little too far. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
If you read the bible it isn't. And you were way out of line with your racial hate comment. Shame on you. | ||
| Blake |
"HD has a HUGE, unbelievably HUGE, incentive to invest in Buell. Motorcycles, like chaff dispensed from the belly of a bomber, serve to obscure the real reasons. Engines are small change. " Please explain what HDMC's HUGE incentive is to invest in Buell, specifically Buell Racing. | ||
| Blake |
As far as supporting the Buell factory racing effort, I like Court's idea of a letter-writing campaign. | ||
| Mcgiver |
I suppose writing a letter is easer than pulling out our wallets.  | ||
| Slaughter |
The problem I have is the unrealistic expectations of folks for an effort funded by individuals. How are we going to raise $250K - out of maybe 1000 folks at $250 each? Forgive me my cynicism but I just don't see it happening. Which "team" gets the funds? Who manages the pot? It might MIGHT work with volunteer labor (realizing that it's a 10 day commitment for each race weekend) - 2 folks burning a week and a half of their own vacation time to drive and wrench (includes race prep, setup and cleanup - AND transportation). Of course, the vehicle and trailer is about $1 per mile (try more like $2 for the rolled-up costs) which they'd be glad to donate as well, of course. Of course, we need wrenches with RR experience - engine, tuning, suspension, drive train. It's a bit different beast than the "standard" XB racebike. Hey - how about let's form a 501.C(3)? Do it in the "Public Interest?" Tie-in to some Police anti-stunting, anti-street-racing campaign? At least the donations MIGHT be deductible. | ||
| Mcgiver |
All goals have obstacles, an open mind and persistance can overcome.The power of positive thinking!I know most people here must be pretty darn smart, or we wouldn't be riding Buells. Lets put all these great ideas here to work,and get a xbrr out there racing. Brian | ||
| Mcgiver |
How are we going to raise $250K - out of maybe 1000 folks at $250 each? Forgive me my cynicism but I just don't see it happening. (have we tried?) Which "team" gets the funds? (lets see which teams think they can pull it off, they might have some creative ideas of there own) Who manages the pot? (Who would like to volunteer, who has some experience?) All god questions, and we can come up with many good answers | ||
| Slaughter |
Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see it happen. Worth some thought, that's for SURE! | ||
| Rocketman |
No racial hate old son. Just facts. And they're something the Bible's a little short on. But hey, let's stick to racing because my comment was meant as a little dry humour. Jay's a Jew, right? Rocket | ||
| Buellshyter |
Rocketman, you just have a knack for pushing peoples' buttons, don't you | ||
| Rocketman |
Read the freakin text above. I insulted no one.................................but someone pushed my button. And now you are, AGAIN. Rocket | ||
| Silenc3r |
One thing I was wondering about all this is... Does the disbanding of BRAG have anything to do with this? It seems like either Buell, or HD (or some combination of the two) is attempting to pull Buell as far out of the public eye as possible. I have also noticed that my local HD/Buell dealer has gone from having a pretty good selection of Buell merchandise, to a pretty sparse collection... The bikes aren't even shown on the main sales floor anymore. Has anyone else noticed similar? I haven't even gotten a single issue of Fuell since signing up for the new 'owner's group' that replaced Brag. I would think that Buell, being as successful a company as it is, would want to be as public as possible, especially when it comes to their riders. The Buell riders I have seen are very loyal to the company, and the idea of a grass roots movement would probably go a long way with the lookers on  While we're not as big a community as Yamaha, Honda, or some of the other manufacturers, we have a unique opportunity to do something as a community to show the rest that the foreign bikes are not the only ones that can race competitively. ..and to prove we believe in the machines we ride. Would it be possible to organize something through HOG? or through our local dealerships, with one dealer acting as the point man, or main coordinator? Good luck, and let me know what I can do to help. Tom | ||
| Rocketman |
Maybe Buell is lining up to buy itself back from HD? Rocket | ||
| Court |
>>>>Does the disbanding of BRAG have anything to do with this? No >>>Maybe Buell is lining up to buy itself back from HD? They are not. | ||
| Court |
By the way. . McGiver, I like your style. There is a GREAT DEAl of very positive things that can happen here. Steve Slaughter, arguably the most experienced and knowledgeable about racing amongst us, is right, it's a steep slope. An essential element is, in a "squid pro quo" game where folks want something for their money, the first step is to realize that money put toward racing is in the same league as greens fees at the club. . . you're going to get some pleasure, but the money is gone. That's racing. The argument can be made that "something is better than nothing". Say we don't raise $250,000. I can easily see 3 of us scheduling a meeting with Mr. Jim Ziemer and saying. . . "Mr. Ziemer, we're a group of Buell owners who were thrilled to see Buell racing and terribly disappointed to see them not racing this year. We believe so firmly that it's important we've raised some money and want to give you this check in the amount of $100,000. We know it's going to take more and we are hopeful that this overt sign of our commitment to our beliefs will prompt you to reconsider funding Buell Racing." The people at the helm are business folks. They are reasonable. The worst that could happen would be we'd get a "no" and end up directing the funding ourselves. But, I think it'd be fascinating to see if we could leverage our enthusiasm. The "bad news", and Slaughter's wisdom shows here, is that the internet is more given to planning than execution. Frankly, there are many more chest pounders that folks who say. . . hey, a couple "C" notes is a hit, but I'd like to take the gamble and see what happens". Companies know this and it's one of the reason that internet whiners really never more the meter in the big house. It's a much smaller crowd. The "GOOD NEWS" is that Buell owners, since TEAM ELVES arrived at Bonneville amidst cautions of "we think you’ve set your expectations a bit high." We listened to scary diatribes of the fate that befalls "salt virgins" about how we'd surely forgotten something . . . and left 4 days later with 4 records and having been recognized as "the most organized team to EVER arrive at Bonneville" (with a "including S&S, but don't say anything to them about that") Frankly, since the day the 3rd RR-1000 shipped Buell folks have had a knack for pulling stuff like this off. Many will want to sit here and discuss the "what if" and "ohmygoshs". I'll be eager to see who says. . . "I think we can". We've got zero risk and little to loose. Court McGiver . . you in construction? |
