| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Onlyblue... I am less concerned about the additives (especially for synthetics), and more concerned about the viscosity. I have run both mobil 1 15w-50 and mobil 1 20w-50 (Vtwin) in my cyclone, and I can hear a difference in how the engine runs, so something is different. It made me nervous enough that I will pony up the extra $12 or so per oil change to meet the viscosity requirements stated by the manufacturer. | ||
| Onlyblue |
You make a good point Reepicheep. Use what you think works. But, here's some more oil information that you and the rest of the Buellers may find worthwhile: http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm http://www.hdcycles.com/motvsaut.htm http://www.northendcycle.com/oil.html | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blue, Those are some great articles. I am on the same sheet of music as Reepicheep about the 15W50.. It's just too thin for ridng in the desert heat like I have to do in El Paso, TX. The extra couple of bucks for the 20W50 is more than worth it for my piece of mind. Here's some more info on Amsoil synthetics if anyone is interested: http://www.lube-direct.com/ddunn | ||
| Gearloose |
Got a question for you fellow Buellers.Have any of you tried the slip on oil coolers that are on Ebay? They act as a heat sink.Just wondering if they work or are a waste of money. Thanks G. | ||
| Blake |
Dan: So the viscosity at 212oF for Mobil-1 15W50 versus a 20W50 oil is different? I don't think so. The W50 suffix part of the multigrade viscosity designation indicates an oil's viscosity at 212oF. The 15W or 20W prefix indicates viscosity at 32oF. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Blake... I don't know enough about what the Xw-Y ratings measure and how they actually measure it... but I could swear I could hear a difference in how my engine ran when I went to the 15w-50 oil. Kinda hard to explain what the difference was... and it could have been the placebo effect... but I don't think so. Anyone ever ran a dyno with 15w-50 versus 20w-50? That would answer the question of "is it any different" once and for all, though the question of "is it any worse" would still have to be determined. Bill | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, As I said, "it's for my piece of mind" I am not interested in the science just using my gut feelings on this. But I do know that the Mobil 15W50 uses a 10weight base stock and the 20w50 uses a true 20weight, This is all the info I needed to make my decision. But I will look up the viscosity ratings at high temps and see if there is a difference. I'll get back to you. Dan | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, Allright you asked for it: Here's the comparo between Mobil1 15w50 and Amsoil 20w50 v-twin viscosity index: Viscosity at 100C: Mobil-18 Amsoil-18.4 Viscosity at 40C: Mobil-120 Amsoil-121.4 Viscosity Index: Mobil-160 Amsoil-169 As I said, I'm no scientist but there does seem to be some difference but I'm not sure how much. Can someone tell us what those numbers truly mean to our Buells? Dan | ||
| Blake |
Dan: Where did you hear that Mobil-1 15W50 uses a 10 weight base? The numbers you posted above indicate that at operational temperatures (~100oC) there is no meaningful difference between the viscosities of Mobil-1 15W50 and Amsoil 20W50 oils. The 0.4 difference is well within the experimental error and statistical deviation of such measurements. Do you have a source for that data? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, I got the data from each respective companies websites so there would be no-one accusing me of fibbing another's numbers to make Amsoil look good. I had a feeling when I pulled that data that they were almost the same at high temps so you are correct. I heard about the base stocks from a person on ATC who I trust but I won't disclose his name unless he wants it to be known. He's not a dealer but he knows what he's talking about and has embarrassed me a few times when I first started talking about Amsoil. I'll still pay the extra $2 a quart for the 20W50 however.  Dan | ||
| Road_Thing |
Okay, this is probably not a new problem, but it's new to me so I'm looking for the voice of collective experience to guide me... OIL LEAK!! (..imagine that...) I'm getting some weepage around the rubber bungs that hold the oil lines into the stock plastic oil tank on my '96 S1. It's not a lot of oil, just a drop or two overnight, but I'd like to stop the leak. Anybody have any ideas? I'd like to avoid spending the $500 or so that it would take to go to Tat's aluminum tank, even though it looks cool. Thanks r_t | ||
| Agstrang |
Oil Cooler I'm considering fitting an oil cooler to my M2. I've got a dinky one which came off a Kawa and was thinking of simply plumbing it line with the return pipe to the oil tank. Anyone got any thoughts/experience/dire warnings about this? Also, does anyone know of an oil-level guage or similar method of checking the oil level easily on an M2 - with the seat conversion on mine, it's a real PITA to 'quickly' remove the seat and check the oil. | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: AGSTRANG(AKA Alistair) Stick with HDI products as the company only as a rule puts out the best!!!!! Have a 97S3T and put an oil cooler on mine ASAP!!! Used a SPORSTER cooler(mounts on the up sidedown "A" frame member where the front lower tie bar assembly attaches). Used a big twin thermostat (mounted on lower right side frame member on the inside of the frame by the rear cylinder). Logic is that the rear cylinder is the referance cylinder. Get the oil cooler and thermostat with the -00 part numbers as they are the latest technology. In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardely-Harley | ||
| Jmartz |
Agstang: I run a Jagg on the feed line directly from the pump using Aeroquip fittings. Unless you are sure that no increase in resistance will result you might reconsider a return line cooler. Power robbing oil sumping is a well known problem in Buells and you do not want to aggravate it. jose | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: AGSTRANG & JMARTZ You can run a FORD MOTORCRAFT FL-1 oil filter which makes the oil system 3 quarts instead of 2 1/2 quarts with the small HDI filter. This adds to the cooling effect of the oil cooler. In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Bushmasta |
I'm going to install a JAAG Oil cooler on my 00 S3. Is a bypass valve really needed. Someone told the oil must get hot enough to get rid of water, so in the winter you turn them off. Is this so? The coldest it might get here is 32, so do i really need one. the rice burners that have oil coolers (i.e. katannas) don't have a bypass. Or are they controlled by a thermostat, and only uses the only cooler when necessary. Is there a thermostat for buell. I have seen only one oil cooler for a Buell which can be mounted that has a thermosat, but wasn't a traditional radiator type, it mounted on the side of the frame. thanks for your input and help. jhbushmasta@aol.com | ||
| Jmartz |
Bush: While the mechanical benefits of cooling the oil in a Buell motor are not certain, the trick factor of a bike carrying an oil cooler is definitely enhanced. I would never put a bypass valve in the system since the oil will get quite hot anyway, even in 20 degree weather. The temoerature of fluid containig water need not reach 212 for said water to evaporate. There is even a slight vapor pressuere above ice. Jose | ||
| Blake |
Jose, I have to strongly disagree on this issue. It is extremely important to allow the oil to reach near 200F operating temperature. Even without the cooler, riding in 32F would keep the oil tank temperature well below 200F (probably closer to 160F). It is very important to run a thermostat or manual bypass valve too keep from overcooling the oil during cool/cold ambient conditions. Ever notice how much water pours out of a car's exhaust on a cold day? The blowby negotiating the crankcase and breather routes carries the same concentration of water vapor (most of the H in the hydrocarbons and O2 in the air mixture gets transformed through combustion to become H2O). One of the worst enemies of our engine is the accumulation of water in cold weather. It not only leads to the formation of acids (especially for conventional oils), but at extreme levels, it can freeze causing sludge and even clog oil passages. Bush, doesn't Jaag provide a thermostat with the cooler? I thought they did. Blake | ||
| Jmartz |
Blake: The oil should get pretty hot while it resides in the motor and it the crankcase ventilation carry water vapor into the carb or out into the atmosphere. As you know fuel burns into water and some of this gets by the rings. Water is an ever persent part of this system. The temperature of the oil is just a portion of the system. The main water escape route is not likely the space above the oil tank. Jose | ||
| Blake |
Jose: On a cold day, a significant amount of the blown-by water vapor condenses on the cold surfaces of the aluminum cases. It then mixes with the oil. If the oil does not reach normal operating temperature, the water accumulates. I've seen it. Trust me. Do NOT run an oil cooler in cold weather without a thermostat or bypass valve engaged. Does the Firebolt's oil cooler have a thermostat? | ||
| Bushmasta |
don't know about the firebolt, but the JAAG doesn't come with a thermostat. you can purchase a bypass for about $50. which is why i asked about it. So I guess i should install it then and keep it off in the cold weather and only run my oil cooler in the summer when i'm riding in our 120F weather? | ||
| Oz666 |
Does anyone know how much oil use is "normal" My `98 S3T uses a quart every 600-800 miles. I bought it used from a guy in Tampa with 3400 miles on it and receipts for all the services. I have put on more miles in 3 months than he did in 3 years. It didn't look/sound/feel "beat on" when I got it, and I don't flog it (I don't HAVE to). I was told the umbrella seals need to be replaced (oil going throught the intake) and there was a noticable amount of "fluffy" black in the exhaust collector when I pulled the muffler to do the 5K service. Any thoughts - I have seen a mention of `98s with rear cylinder leakdown losses (should I spend $350 with the Snap-On guy?). First Buell (LOVE it), first HD product (not so sure). Oz | ||
| Buelliedan |
Oz, A quart of oil every 600-800 miles is way too much. But I have to ask how you are checking your oil level. Never check it cold. Only check it after a spirited ride and even then do not fill it more than 3/4 to the mark. If you overfill the tank it will just get blown out your overflow and appear like you are burning lots of oil. Also, how do you have your crankcase breathers vented? If they still go into the air cleaner this will result in excessive oil usage. Best to either vent them to a filter or a catchcan. Dan | ||
| Tripper |
Ozzie - Don't fill the oil tank above halfway on the marks. See if your oil blowing out stops. Be sure to check oil only when hot. Some may drain down into the cases when you park it. | ||
| Oz666 |
Buelliedan/Tripper, I followed the manual and only checked the oil HOT, (while precariously balancing the the bike vertical with one hand). On the advice of a long time engine HD builder (he thinks its the umbrella seals), I have not been filling it more than 1/2 way between the marks (more or less), it uses the same amount. I don't want to duct tape hoses to the bottom of the air box so I guess I need to get one of those traps. Oz | ||
| Reepicheep |
For what its worth, if I fill my M2 much above the LOWER mark on the dipstick... she will spray it back all over my pantleg in protest on the next ride. If I keep it at that bottom mark, it will stay unchanged for the full 3000 mile change interval... If I went half way up the dipstick, I would be soaked in oil by the end of the ride... Bill | ||
| Bushmasta |
how does the conventional routing into the airbox create more oil usage then a catch can. either way the oil is spit up just in different locations right? | ||
| Hootowl |
I've got to plug the "cure" for the HD/Buell puking problem. I installed the cure a few months ago, but I never really knew if it was working or not. I have gutted my airbox, and the stock breather hoses are still in place, but no longer attached to the non existent snorkle. I haven't gotten around to installing a catch can. Last weekend, I went on an 800 mile ride through the Texas Hill country. Needless to say, I was running above 4K most of the time. I expected to find the inside of my airbox covered in Redline when I got home, but there was only a faint sheen of oil on the end of the hose. So much for a catch can. I run my oil between the lower mark and half way at all times, but I still had quite a bit of blow by before. The cure is cheap, and it works. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
from THE S3 FILES The other thing that is happening is that you have a high pressure zone (the venting air/oil leaving the breather holes) going into a low pressure zone (the air intake) that is sucking in air, so the intake actually helps to suck out the air/oil leaving the crankcase through the pushrod tubes! | ||
| Aaron |
Hootowl: but the blow-by costs power. |
