| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Nov/061103x.ht m Way COOL! | ||
| Rocketman |
Wasn't this in another thread yesterday?  Rocket | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah... I was thinking I'd put $10K into a gixxer - and now for less than $50K I can get a prepped Eye-T-Alian bike! Sign me up! (it WILL make SBK more interesting) | ||
| Jscott |
The question remains: Yates or Hodgson? | ||
| Babyhuey |
Hopefully Hodgson will get a ride on a Ducati.like the team Foggy's trying to put together.That's more along the lines of where he belongs. | ||
| Rfischer |
MV is part of the Caviga Group, isn't it? That being said, they're essentially broke [the perpetual state of all things great and Italian], so I don't think this will go very far. I am surprised Ferracci got sucked in - he should know better. He may change his mind after Milan nxt. week when he gets a earful from industry insiders.... We'll see. | ||
| Schmitty |
Don't look for Hodgson on one of Foggy's bikes. He was quoted in Road Racer X as saying he would "rather eat his own feces" than ride for Carl Fogarty. Gotta love those crazy Brits!! Schmitty (Message edited by schmitty on November 06, 2006) | ||
| Babyhuey |
That's why i like him,he's also a fellow countryman,so i've root for the home team guy.God Save The Queen!  | ||
| Trojan |
MV is part of the Caviga Group, isn't it? It was bought out and rescued again last year by Proton I believe, so they should hopefully have a little money to play with now. Hopefully Hodgson will get a ride on a Ducati.like the team Foggy's trying to put together. Foggy still hasn't got any sponsorship or any bikes confirmed yet, so I doubt we'll see Neil on one of Foggy's bikes. Personally I hope that Foggy doesn't field a team at all, coz I hate the man  (Message edited by trojan on November 07, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
Actually Proton's sale of MV to GEVI this year for 1 euro seems to be the motorcycling worlds best kept secret. Does anyone here know who GEVI are and what they do? I don't. It's worthy of note to see that Proton only held a 57.8% stake in MV and non of MV's assets. I'd say those crafty Italian's had those Malaysians pants down. Cagiva at one time was the parent company of MV as I recall. Cagiva owned by the Castiglioni brothers. And it was the Castiglioni brothers if I remember correctly who sold the brand to Proton. Interested parties might find this somewhat amusing when one considers the amount of cash blown by Proton.......... Proton chairman Mohammed Azlan Hashim met the press yesterday to "tell all" on the controversial purchase of MV Agusta at 70 million euros (RM367.6 million) and subsequent fire-sale at one euro. Now, Azlan said Proton Holdings Bhd board was not given full details of the acquisition of the debt-laden MV Agusta Motors SpA (MVAM) when the deal was executed in 2004. Come clean oh come clean you members of the old and new Board of Directors! The ball is now volleyed into Mahathir and Mahaleel's court. Stay tuned! THE STAR StarBiz Wednesday March 29, 2006 Proton chief tells all in controversial Agusta sale By JAGDEV SINGH SIDHU SHAH ALAM: Proton Holdings Bhd yesterday revealed the details surrounding the controversial sale of MV Agusta for one euro, saying the Italian motorcycle maker was headed for bankruptcy even after the company bought it and that further support for Agusta would only drag Proton down. Members of the current board said the previous board which approved the purchase was not fully aware of the terms of the shareholders’ agreement and that Agusta failed to deliver the synergies expected. “This was a decision that was thoroughly considered. There was urgency in the matter but it was not hasty. It took five months to come to that point and we hired external consultants and lawyers and, looked at the possibility of restructuring Agusta but found out it was not a solution,'' said Proton chairman Datuk Mohammed Azlan Hashim. In a briefing for the media, Azlan, together with board member Badrul Feisal Abdul Rahman and managing director Syed Zainal Abidin Syed Mohamed Tahir, recounted the process that led to the disposal of Agusta. First wind Azlan said the board first got wind of the ongoing troubles at Agusta in early August last year when the Proton representative in Agusta said the Italian company was in dire straits and required additional funding. The group exco at that time, which was formed to take over the daily running of Proton after former CEO Tengku Mahaleel Tengku Ariff left, decided that a detailed review was needed and Credit Suisse First Boston, along with an Italian law firm, were hired to advise Proton on how to move forward. “This was also the first time we discovered that in addition to the 70mil euro investment in Agusta (which was to buy a 57.8% stake in Agusta), the Proton group had subsequently injected further sums of money into Agusta,'' said Azlan. The advances were made through two wholly-owned Proton subsidiaries, Proton Cars UK and Perusahaan Otomobil Nasional Sdn Bhd (PONSB). Azlan said Proton Cars UK advanced nine million euros to Agusta and PONSB had given a credit line of up to 30 million euros. The PONSB advances, of which 15 million had been drawn down, were structured along the lines of a parts purchase assistance programme. He said the boards of those subsidiaries that approved the funding basically comprised management and from a governance perspective, the board was empowered to do what it wanted. CSFB review CSFB had then done its review of Agusta and what it found was “scary” as it found that the existing business model of Agusta was neither operationally nor financially sustainable. Agusta was unlikely to deliver significant economies of scale even when integrated with Proton. “Anything can be made to work but it depends on how much money and time you are prepared to spend. If we want to make it work into an operating cashflow positive position, then we have to be prepared for a substantial backing for an extended period at considerable financial risk. In other words, there is no guarantee,'' he said. Azlan said the board did not know how long it would take for Agusta to turn around neither how much, in total, it would cost. Faced with the prospect that Agusta would have to pay 154 million euros (the outstanding debt owed plus a claw back on some of the haircut given by previous creditors) should it fail to meet its scheduled debt payment of 16mil euros at the end of December 2005, Proton had a tough decision to make. Proton was told by its newly appointed adviser CSFB that for Agusta to continue surviving, it needed 40 million euros in the near term and up to 66 million euros until Agusta is able to support itself. “This is clearly beyond Proton's means,'' said Azlan. He said those estimates were based on certain assumptions and if any of those were not met, the amount would have been higher. Problem to turn Agusta around Another problem the Proton board had to deal with was how to turn around Agusta operationally as the company had lost 120 million euros in the last six years. “This is a niche product. Average sales were 14,425 units a year over the past six years. The breakeven sales number as computed by CSFB was 43,894,'' said Azlan. “Even if we had the money to invest and could produce 44,000 bikes, could you sell 44,000 bikes? This is not the more you produce, the more you can sell. This is not a product that sells like hot cakes. This is a highly specialised product and expensive product. This is the Ferrari of motorbikes. Many people desire a Ferrari but how many people can afford to buy one?'' asked Azlan. Difficult to restructure Azlan said when Agusta was found to be in a precarious financial position, the initial approach by the Proton board was to see whether Agusta could be restructured. He said that route was “extremely difficult” because of restrictions such as veto rights and anti-dilution clauses by minority shareholders, and that the previous management was still entrenched in the company. With creditors overdue and independent directors at Agusta hinting that perhaps Agusta should be wound up as a bankrupt company, Azlan said the only option then left for Proton to extricate itself from Agusta without spending more cash was to sell its stake in Agusta. But it had to sell that stake to a credible party with financial means. He said six options were deliberated and only one meant no further capital injection by Proton. That option, which involved pledging Proton's stake to Banca Intessa, was shot down by that bank as they felt the Agusta shares were worthless. Bank Intessa was the financier to Agusta. The Proton board then asked CSFB to find a buyer before the end of December 2005 so that Proton would not have to pay the 16mil euros debt payment and pour in further funds into Agusta. New buyer found By Nov 24, GEVI approached Agusta's management with a proposal to acquire Proton's stake. Azlan said Proton had also obtained a proposal from another company, wishing only to manage Agusta and to take the upside from any recovery but not share the downside risk. GEVI said it will buy Agusta for one euro and inject 30mil euros in total, with 15mil euros of that as working capital. Proton sold its stake in Agusta to GEVI on March 2, 2006. With hindsight, Azlan said the vehicle Proton used to acquire the 57.8% stake in Agusta - Proton Capital - was not optimum. “It was not ring-fenced. Proton Capital was just the conduit that put the money into Agusta. That's why our investment of 70mil euros was exposed. All Proton Capital had was the shares of Agusta instead of acquiring (the assets and liabilities) from Agusta,'' he said. “Structure is just as important as intention. Nothing has been done post acquisition to realise the intention into reality,'' he added. Expensive lesson Looking back, Azlan said the Agusta episode was an expensive lesson for Proton. “We do not want a recurrence of this. To an extent, the financial loss is damage to Proton,'' he said. The second lesson from this was the loss opportunity as the amount of money pumped into Agusta - 100 million euros in total - would have been better used at Lotus, which was very much involved in auto manufacturing and engineering. “They have the capabilities, name and brand. This type of money would be better used in building up that company and the money could have also gone into product development,'' he said. Better use for money Syed Zainal said that money lost on Agusta would have enabled Proton to hire engineering companies to develop two platforms for Proton. “Going forward, we should focus on the real problems, which is coming up with new model variants and strategic alliances. Obviously today, going into this venture would have been a very big drain on our resources both financially and time. Too much time has been spent on Agusta. Lotus should be the real focus point on where to put our energy and resources into as the have styling, design and cars,'' he said. “Our focus should be on getting back the market share in Malaysia, how to capture the Asean market and deal with the National Automotive Policy.'' Azlan said attempts to communicate Proton's views to Tun Mahathir Mohamad has been made but it has not been able to do so. Rocket | ||
| 12r |
coz I hate the man How can you say that about King Frog - the Master of High Cornering Speed and adaptable riding style ? | ||
| Trojan |
How can you say that about King Frog - the Master of High Cornering Speed and adaptable riding style ? Don't get me started on the obnoxious little dwarf. The worst sporting ambassador that Britain ever had......... | ||
| 12r |
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| Babyhuey |
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| Davegess |
"I'd say those crafty Italian's had those Malaysians pants down. " I'd say you are right. Sorta the same deal when, was it Chrysler, bought DeTomaso. They had a table full of lawyers and MBA. He had himself and one attorney. When the new managment team arrived at the factory they realized that they had gotten EXACTLY what they had agreed to but NOTHING that they thought they were getting. Old Mr. DeTomaso took them folks to the cleaners with all the i's dotted and the t's crossed. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well Dave, I can't fathom it. On the one hand we have MV worth ziltch, and Proton buy 58.3% of nothing for 70 million euros. Then they prop MV up for another year with 30 million more euros. When Proton realise they need to sell 40000 odd bikes a year to break even and MV are doing what, 14000 bikes a year, Proton sell for one euro to an Italian company named GEVI before another 16 million euro debt is due to be paid as part payment of a 154 million euro debt. I don't know how MV can put as many different models on the market and make very expensive special editions to boot. On top of that they are going racing in at least four domestic race series for 2007. Italy, USA, UK and Germany. Am I right in thinking MV (GEVI) have 100 million euros of Protons money in their pocket? Surely it isn't possible? Who are this GEVI? Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
The worst sporting ambassador that Britain ever had......... Ignorant bastard comes to mind. Rocket | ||
| Rfischer |
Ahem.....GEVI is a boutique investment bank controlled by, guess who? Yup - that's right boys 'n girls: Castiglioni. Classic Italian [Castiglioni] swindle. BTW, those folks only have the Husqvarna name on license from the Swedes, who are none too pleased with these shennanigans and are consulting counsel as we speak.... (Message edited by rfischer on November 08, 2006) (Message edited by rfischer on November 08, 2006) | ||
| Davegess |
"Ahem.....GEVI is a boutique investment bank controlled by, guess who? Yup - that's right boys 'n girls: Castiglioni. " LMFAO That is too good. You could call it all a house of cards BUT the Italian companies continue on for decades building cool stuff and going racing, ya gotta pay for it all some how. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rfisch................ "Ahem.....GEVI is a boutique investment bank controlled by, guess who? Yup - that's right boys 'n girls: Castiglioni. " And where tell did you acquire such information? Or did you just make it up? Rocket | ||
| Rfischer |
Some research late December '05 when the Proton bail-out story first surfaced [in the Turkish business press if you can imagine]. And some insider dish 'cause i R an 'insider'..... I wuz sittin' in my flat in Moscow during the holidays when I got wind of the deal and immediately busied myself digging up the background as it directly impacted my business interests. And, BTW, rumors were circulating at the Milan show that November that Caviga was broke, wasn't paying suppliers who wouldn't ship, lines were shut down, etc. No, I didn't make it up - it's too rich to be fiction. | ||
| Jscott |
Pics of the said bike... http://speedzilla.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2936 1 | ||
| Jscott |
More http://www.mvagusta.net/gallery/ferracci_racing | ||
| Davegess |
GIVA is certainly an Italian finance company, I would not be surprised to the brothers C are involved, they are vey deep in the Italian finance world. It seems that in Italy the banks really control large parts of the economy and are willing to let companies lose large amounts of money without pulling the plug. And willing to shuffle things about sometimes taking money out of foreigners pockets to help keep the whole thing working. Winess FIAT, ALFA, Ducati and who nows what else. | ||
| Jscott |
Obviously unofficial and unsubstantiated, but word is that during the MV test at Jennings... "...Luca just did a 1:14.81....new track record " | ||
| Jscott |
Also word is that other than known rider Luca Scassa testing, Matt Lynn and Chuck Sorensen are also present. | ||
| Rocketman |
fisch, I appreciate your explanations but why should your words hold water when the Internet is FULL of documented evidence surrounding the MV / Proton sell out, yet the deepest question asked is, who is GEVI? No one seems to be able to answer that question. There are those who believe GEVI is a wholly owned Malaysian company. Then there's you, with the only reference anywhere to be found on the Internet telling the world (or at least BadWeB :-) ) that Castiglioni is in control of GEVI. Please substantiate this with documented evidence or tell why I should take your word for your findings with a little more (read lots more) than the tidbit of info you've handed out thus far. After all, that's a massive claim you make. Rocket | ||
| Jscott |
Official lap times... http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=27577 | ||
| Rfischer |
Rocketman; I did my homework and you can as well, if you're truly interested in the story. My financial interests were impacted so I took the trouble. From here, you're on your own. Cheers! R. | ||
| Daves |
I'll bet Troy Frankenfurter is behind it all! That ignorant petrol head!  |
