| Author | Message | ||
     Daves |
HD/Buell offers Buell sales classes to dealership staff. I've been to lots of them. It is a requirement for points toward a Pegasus award to send at least one salesperson to a Buell sales class every year. You also send a tech to Buell classes. The education is available, the dealer just needs to send the people and the people that go have to care enough to apply what they learn. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I would agree if there were a direct equivalent to Buell, but there isn't. Besides, we are talking about how to take a sales guy from being resistant to actively selling Buell to one who can explain the uniqueness of a Buell to a customer. "Although I may be "Smokey" the Geico biker and would never ride this style of bike, this bike has some really cool features. Let me tell you about them." | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Dave, Is there any monetary incentive? | ||
| Daves |
No, other than being able to do a better job, thus selling more bike and possibly making more $$ | ||
| Daves |
PS or keeping your job! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That's exactly my point. If I can make all the money I want and keep my job selling HDs, why would I want to "waste" my time with the Buells? If you walk in, hit me in the head, and tell me to sell you one, I'm willing to "help". That ain't sales. Let's say that with your "Buell Certification" you got a base pay raise, say $3,000 a year. In order to keep your Certification, you had to complete additional annual update education and sell a minimum number of Buells per year (set a number). If you miss either of these benchmarks, you lose your "Certified Buell Consultant" status and the additional $3,000 in base pay. | ||
| Daves |
except Buell doesn't pay me, the dealer owner does. I see what you are getting at and heck yes, I could use another 3000.00 per year. Maybe Buell could pay me direct. The problem is, even if you are "certified" that doesn't mean you'll do a good job? Most would get the certification, take the 3000.00 per year and still suck at Buell sales. Dealers just need to find people who have their heart into it. That is the answer. You can train knowledge You cannot train passion for a product | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I agree and maybe it's a manufacturer to dealer pay. If you get the certification and that certification doesn't translate into MORE Buell sales, you lose your certification. Results must follow. | ||
| Daves |
a better program would be if Buell would send the salesperson say 50.00-100.00 for each Buell sold, at retail(or close to it), not at give away prices(anyone can do that). They would have to be very diligent on checking to make sure the bikes were not falsely recorded as sold(like to dealership employees,trust me this has happened before) I think that would be a better program to reward salespeople for their performance/results not just knowledge | ||
| Daves |
if it was a factory to dealer pay. I am pretty sure that most Buell salespeople would never see that money | ||
| Court |
This discussion is excellent. I owe you folks an apology, my schedule this last week and next week are going to limit my ability to move toward the next chapter, but I do hope to find time to share a couple thoughts. There are some sweeping changes needed. There is a mindset that is open to that. Abuses by dealers, as DaveS mentioned, are rampant and unfortunately have eroded the gravity of the Pegasus award in some prior years. Buell needs to be more proactive and I have, since 1996, been an advocate of something call TEAM BUELL. We'll get into the details as we move ahead, but I think it's essential that Buell create an atmosphere that fosters and rewards excellence at the dealer level. Before you send a soldier to battle you must arm him/her properly. Two elements I'd like to hear your thoughts on. 1) What training would you like to see Buell provide to the designated BUELL EXPERT at a dealership. Ideas can range from sending them a video (been done, worked poorly) to one of my favorites, factory BUELL SCHOOL. 2) Personally I think the trashy P&A offerings tend to water down the Buell message. The stuff looks like HD lifestyle after thoughts. What are 6 "can't live without" accessories Buell should offer and are 6 GREAT ones better than dozens of axle covers? Court | ||
| Diablobrian |
I would love to see designated Buell salespeople. 1) A factory training "Buell School" would be absolutely key. Currently most of the customers purchasing Buells know far more about the bikes than the salesmen do. This needs to change. I think the elves could work their magic with a multi-day Buell School at the factory. I think that is a key element. The factory should also send out "secret shoppers" on a random basis and there should be serious repercussions for failing to live up to expectations. Character is what people do when they think no one else is watching. BMC is built on character. There should also be nice bonuses for salespeople that do well with the secret shopper. It's only fair. 2) P&A....I would love to see an XBRR style quiet, but free flowing exhaust available (keep wishing, I know  ) Frame pucks should be standard across the board. Those are probably the best selling accessory in the catalog. A taller windscreen for the firebolts, Zero Gravity ST style, in colors to match the buell line would be great. Translucid firebolt bodywork. Including fenders and chin fairing. It was done for the Queensryche Ulys so it is possible. Heat sheilds for under the seat, airbox and inside of frame. Odie could help on this one  Adjustable clutch levers. The line of seats is great BTW. On most bikes that is one of the first things on the list.  Full fairings made of the same material as the stock bodywork as an option. Tapped holes on the swingarm for spools/sliders, and the sliders/spools to go in them. These would sell like hot cakes. I'm sure other people have ideas that will be even better than the ones I've put forward, but it's a start. | ||
| Daves |
well we don't need any 80.00 hand grips WTH were they thinking on those? Training I would like to see. Get Mark Rodgers back involved, he is a great trainer Buell only training with real pass/fail tests. Every person there should be able to do a proper "walk around" in front of the rest of the class with the instructor acting as the customer. Do not make it a "connect the dots, canned" presentation. Let the student mix it up according to their personality and the personality of the customer. | ||
| Daves |
Brian, They already have a "mystery shopper" program. | ||
| Bads1 |
Brian, do you know what those fenders would look like after a season of riding??? So pitted that it wouldn't be funny. I would have to say the fenders on the Queensryche bikes are already showing signs of heavy wear on the front fenders anyhow. They look cool but not for long. | ||
| Diablobrian |
That's surprising Dave, seems like every dealership I've been to when I said Buell they tried to steer me towards sportsters or V-rods. I think the benefit/penalty for the secret shopper evaluation should be stiffened dramatically. Make it HURT if they fail, Or PAY if they pass. No slaps on the wrist, no warnings. Make it real. Guys like you would not have to worry. A lot of salespeople would...and should be afraid of failing their review. Right now I'm sure it is handled in a sort of "oh well, we did well on the H-D side" and that is the end of the discussion. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Fair enough Dana, I'd still like to see the firebolt upper and tail section. I was trying to prime the pump. Looks like I've succeeded in that regard | ||
| Bads1 |
I agree though the firebolt with trans. full bodywork. Like a cherry bomb full set with black wheels.Front fender being black and just nose of the chin spoiler being black the rest trans. red. That I think would look nice. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I worked for a company that after you had been with them for 90 days, they sent you to the home office for one week. Obviously, there was technical training on the products. There was also "sales" training. More important than either of these facts was "culture" training. We got a feel for the people at the home office, what the desire and direction of the products were, and what it meant to be part of the company. You could call it indoctrination, but it made a difference. By the end of the week, we were not only better, more technically knowledgeable sales folks, we were cheerleaders for the company. Folks went from employees with moderate interest in the company to sales folks with passion for both the products and the company. 1) Training Topics (CONDUCTED AT BUELL HOME OFFICE!!!!) Do the folks that sell Buell know who Erik is (other than the guy who's name is on the bike)? Do they know his story? Do they know what it has taken to bring this product to the market? Do they know why Buells are different, technically? Do they know the customer that is likely to buy one? Do they know the difference between a buyer that would buy a Firebolt vs a buyer that would buy a Ulysses (these buyers are different, btw!)? Do they know why HD and Buell are sold out of the same shop? Have they ever seen one being built, step by step? Have they ever met one of the builders? I think it wouldn't hurt to have at least one Buell Consultant and eventually two or more in each shop. I think dealerships should have some skin in the game. A small amount to determine interest. If they can't pony up some portion of the home office school (airfare, hotel, etc.), they should have Buell stripped from them. Lukewarm dealerships are the absolute DEATH of Buell. Passion or none, nothing in between. BUELL HO will need to pony up as well. If it's 100% on the head and shoulders of the dealers, they will make it optional and the option will be NO. Once the "Certified Buell Consultant" has completed training. An additional compensation should be paid to them, annually, as part of their base compensation. It doesn't have to be much. Think of it as VERY cheap advertising. This additional compensation should not come through the hands of the dealership but come directly from Buell. As long as the "Consultant" meets continuing education requirements as well as sales goals for Buells (say 5 per year), he gets to keep the title and the additional compensation. If he doesn't, he loses both the title as well as the compensation. Results come from directed activities. Buells largely are sold by accident. Wouldn't it be cool for a newly indoctrinated "Certified Buell Consultant" to pounce on a very surprised BadWeb member with a desire to impress them with their knowledge of the bike? What would that be like? 2) As far as merchandise, what I have seen from the three dealerships within 80 miles of my house is nothing to virtually nothing. It's abysmal! Here are the things I would like to see and I would like to see items that are as UNIQUE as Buell. I would like to see a Buell display that is a requirement of having Buell in the shop. If you carry Buell, you are required to house AND STOCK a small display. You can always add more if you want to. I think BMC should manage this display directly and not leave it up to the dealership. If that means, that Buell ponies up for the cost and the dealer gets paid when it's sold, so be it. Think of it as quality control. If you want every Buell dealer to be consistent in their message, you must verify continuity from store to store. In a former life, I was in management with Abercrombie & Fitch (don't laugh you bastards!). You may hate their clothes, but you can not deny that they are consistent from store to store. You can walk into a store in Chicago and a store in LA and they will look exactly the same. Buell should be the same as well. Control the message! How cool would it be to have a cooperative arrangement between Buell and Roof for helmets? What would a Buell version of this look like?    How cool would it be to have a cooperative Buell arrangement with a cool jacket and pant manufacturer whose stuff is as UNIQUE as Buell?     How cool would it be to have unique foot wear and gloves as well? Not necessarily home grown, but maybe a cooperative approach with another manufacturer (that will actually deliver on time)?  I also would like to see a controlled, homogenized roll-out of apparel that is consistent from dealership to dealership. You can scale up as Buell sales increase or you can do the whole thing at once. Fewer pieces but greater availability. Limit the collection to 10 or fewer items, but change them from year to year or season to season. If you are going to have (dare I say it) Buell fashion, you must THINK LIKE A FASHION MERCHANDISER. Apparel is as much of the message as anything. Face it most of the apparel we have seen in the shops looks hagged out and home made. If I saw someone wearing one of the shirts I have passed over out in public, I'd think Buell bikes were home made as well! Again control the message. I don't think cluttering the dealership with too many "farkles" makes sense. Even at Honda, Suzuki, or Yamaha, there are only a fraction of the farkles you would normally find out in the real world. We have fantastic outlets like Trojan and American Sport Bike. I would like to see a cooperative venture with these guys to make their products available IN BUELL DEALERSHIPS. Look at it this way, I could either order it online or I could order it at my local shop. Granted the dealership would probably not make much margin, but right now, it's a margin they are not getting at all. If ABS or Trojan could provide a 15% discount to Buell corporate, Buell could use 5% of that to cover shipping to dealerships and the other 10% could be split between the dealership and the sales guy. How cool would it be to have access to ALL of what Trojan and American Sport Bike have LOCALLY! Don't reinvent the wheel, just make what's already there available. Lastly, I think there needs to be more top down control of the message at the dealer level overall. I think it needs to be both carrot and stick. How about matching dollars (probably already done, but)? For every dollar you spend in Buell marketing, you get a dollar or two in HD marketing. How about HD and Buell advertising dollars granted for becoming a BRAG sponsor? How about HD and Buell advertising dollars granted for each Buell event held? You get the idea. I think there should be national marketing as well. The website already has some of the coolest commercials out there. WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN ONE (and I watch a crap load of TV)? If the carrot doesn't work, there must be a stick. It's time to poop or get off the pot. If you aren't going to MARKET Buell bikes, you don't get to be a dealership for Buell bikes. Period. Actively market and sell Buell bikes or:  | ||
| Ulywife |
Actively market and sell Buell bikes How about something as simple as those dealers who carry Buell put the Buell sign up in front of their store. That's our major complaint about our local dealership. The sign is in the back of the dealership and has been there for 3+ years. The owner doesn't want to spend the money on installing the sign since he feels he doesn't have much Buell business. We as customers and Buell owners feel that he would attract more interest if he would simply have the sign installed. One of our C3 members passed the dealership for over a year never realizing that they actually were a Buell dealership. When Buell owners go to the parts counter, the person behind the desk should at least know what a M2, S3, X1, etc. are. We usually order parts from Daves because he has them in stock and is more than willing to answer questions we may have regarding accessories, parts, connecting parts, etc. Daves has also been more than helpful when I just needed information to help us make a decision on a replacement part or new accessory. Al at American Sport Bike has been just as helpful as well. It's nice to speak to someone who rides the same bikes that these guys have such a passion over. As long as we have service manuals, Daves and American Sport Bike I'm sure we'll continue to have Buells parked in our barn. As for some stock items, I'm not the "rider" so I'll not get into the bike parts. However, I do the shopping and would love to see some small Buell items such as front license plates, hitch covers, coffee mugs, thermal cups. My daughter loves to wear her pink Buell hat. She keeps trying to take my hoodie I just ordered from Daves!! (Message edited by Ulywife on October 28, 2006) (Message edited by Ulywife on October 28, 2006) | ||
| Bads1 |
You guys would love these.  | ||
| Ulywife |
Exactly! We've already had our  made into decals and magnets for our trucks. Looking into shirts, but since it comes out of our pocket, it will have to wait. | ||
| Diablobrian |
A trip to Appleton would be a good thing to include in "Buell School" if DaveS was willing to share his secrets (enthusiasm). I do agree with the slow delivery from Vanson being a problem. It is top notch gear, but there are more motivated manufacturers out there. BTW...Court this has been a great thread and a great exchange of ideas thanks for getting the wheels turning! | ||
| Henrik |
1) Buell school is indeed the way to go. Get people immersed, maybe even let them twirl wrenches on a couple of bikes, just to take an up close and personal look. Make them do a track day to give non-Buell-riders an idea of what a non-HD bike is capable of and why we enjoy them so much. Ideally after Buell School they'll know more about Buell, the brand, the history, models through the years, current offerings etc. than I. 2) P&A offerings: yeah, $80 grips - well if customers have the dough, by all means go for it, but please don't blow any R&D resources. Now, the spool mounts on the swingarm along with the spools as a P&A items - that's something I've been asking for since my first the Buell. Adjustable clutch levers - absolutely. Continue working on the clutch pull - something like the Muller ramp would be worth selling as well. Make sure that P&A for the individual bikes is up to snuff. While many items can be had - and often cheaper through the aftermarket - I think it would show a dedication to the bike and it's intended purpose if the factory had a range of accessories available as well. The disappearing heated grips for the Uly is a very good example of this. On a similar note if you're going to sell a GPS and have hooked up with the leader in automotive GPS systems, please, please, please don't "introduce" a model 2 generations old and ask close to double street price for it ... consumers are smarter than that. Height and rear-set adjustable footpegs and footpeg brackets - maybe use some of those fancy offset pivot options that are appearing. Height, droop, angle adjustable bars/clip-ons. Headlight upgrades and/or aux lighting options? It would of course be nice if the bikes came with killer lighting from the factory Henrik (Message edited by Henrik on October 29, 2006) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh, and while we are adding to the wish list, what the hell is up with HD Finance. How is it that the best that they can do is a variable credit card rate of 14.28% when my local bank financed it for 5.8%. If you aren't even going to come close to a competitive rate, please don't even try. And I had to wait two (2, dos, deux) hours for a financial approval. Probably not the place for this, but dayam! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
One other thought, Certified Buell Consultants would have a concierge level home office person that would be their contact for "special needs". Obviously, right now there are "unofficial" channels to get things done. If you have spent the time to gain the knowledge and have shown the desire to truly market Buells, you should have a formal and direct way to assist customers for your dealership. Dave, Court and others do a good damn job hunting down solutions for problems out in the field. So much so, that pretty much the entire country is dependent upon just a few people to keep it all going. My fear is that Dave will get hit by a bus. Who would replace him? Who would replace Court? What would it be like to have 5 Daves, or 15 Daves, or even 50 Daves? How much more responsive could Buell be if there were 50 people all requesting guidance or assistance with a particular problem? What would happen if 50 Daves called in within 2 weeks with customers with fans that had died, or belts that had failed, or fuel pumps that had died? How much more responsive could Buell be? Would they be able to front run the issue more quickly? If you recognize a trend, how much more quickly could Buell respond to these trends and issue remedies? This type of relationship would require a slightly different arrangement. My experience with sales people has been (as it is in the automotive industry) that once the deal is closed and the ink is dry, the sales person no longer has anything more to do with you unless you want another bike or you have a referral for someone else who wants a bike. The relationship is then transitioned to the service department. It is up to the service department to carry it forward. I think this is where the relationship ends. I bought my bike from a dealership from which I will never buy another bike. It's not that they did a bad job on the sales side. They were fine. They are just not Pro Buell in the service area. As a result, my next Buell will be purchased from a different dealership. Why would I reward good service by not allowing them to profit from an additional sale? Why would I reward bad service by purchasing from them again? I think the training would require Buell dealers' service managers to also be trained. I think every Buell dealership should have a specially trained Service manager as well as a Buell Tech. Someone who works on HDs but only occasionally works on Buells will not be as familiar and will not be able to adequately trouble shoot. I think we have seen this play out several times here. I receive service work at Bumpus HD in Murfreesboro. Steve Shivers is the service manager and he is excellent. He genuinely supports Buell and is an owner as well. Flash is the Buell Tech in their shop. He is very good at trouble shooting (ie not just pulling codes). Both the service manager and the Buell Tech should be required to attend ongoing Buell education on model changes, problem areas, procedural changes, and trouble shooting. I see a much more cooperative approach between the sales person, the service manager, and the Buell Tech. I think if we center only on the sales process, we do so at the peril of the repeat buyer. What would happen if the sales and service folks communicated back and forth to solve problems? "Hey Jim, you remember Bob Parker? He came in with a bad fan on his Uly. This is the third person with Uly's who have had similar problems. I think we need to let someone in the technical area know and you might want to let Bob and the other two customers know that you are aware of the issue and are talking with Home Office about it." How do you think Bob Parker would react to such a proactive response? Do you think Bob is more likely or less likely to buy from Jim again? Once the situation is resolved, do you think the experience will play into Jim's selling process in the future? Do you think the service manager's perceptions would be changed in seeing how Buell handles issues? We know you guys are good, but do the sales and service people know how good you are? People don't expect perfection, but they do expect problems to be solved quickly and accurately. I've had some issues with my bike. I've lost a fuel pump, a bank angle sensor, a front rotor and brake, and a fan (all before 5,000 miles). The difference between a bad experience and a good experience is completely due to the response I get from the service department. If the service was bad, I would be one of the bitter, angry Buell owners doing my dead level best to hurt Buell's reputation. As it is, I am looking for my second Buell! | ||
| Rams |
I worked for a few HD/Buell dealers and the true is that HD don't care about Buell bikers and or owners, it's better try to push a V-rod that a Buell, some dealers I worked were in FLA and it's Ok, that buells are not the hot seller there where there is no turns, but now I live in east TN and the dealer here also careless about buells, HD does not help. someone mention about the parts guy likes to sell chrome and not buell parts, it's not always true but there is little literature about buells, no dealer has catalogs with parts available, they do not stock any accessories or parts other than oil filter and some gaskets. there is no training available regarding buell for the emplioyees, the sales has one tape about buell and the tech can have a buell class, but for the parts or rental guy there is nothing available on h-dnet | ||
| Jtylr50 |
I agree the best sales staff in the world can't help a bad service department.I am in an area without much buell support at all I have tried two so far without much luck.It is their attitude that kills me.They don't know buell stuff and and just to get basic questions answered is such a hassle.When they hear the word buell it is like flipping a switch that turns off the hospitality, is servicing our bikes that bad?I just hope I don't need any warranty work done. | ||
| Toona |
Hmmm, incentives... How about for us? How about for every person we take into a dealership that buys a bike, "we" (person doing the referral) get either $100 off our next bike purchase - $ can roll over up to (oh, I dunno) 3 years? or $25 off parts/apparrel within a year of referral. I realise that doesn't do squat for the salesman at the dealership, but maybe if the salesman sees enough of "our" passion, he'll get some. Parts I would like to see available/added: 1. frame pucks factory installed on all bikes 2. rubber "x" made available separately 3. a gas guage Apparel: I like/ditto Ft_'s idea posted above about the merchandising. Must be classy, but more importantly-AVAILABLE! Shirts/hats/etc are mostly impulse purchases (to me anyhow), if it's not on display, it's not going to sell. Changes already made that I like: 1. Lower Uly seating, still not my style of bike, but a nice ride none the less (Bring on a true S3T replacement) 2. Easier clutch pull (than my '04) 3. PIRELLI'S! 4. Select Seat 5. Demo Days are FUN! Side note: now if I could get to a homecomeing, it always conflicts with my work schedule, maybe change the date to a week earlier/later some year. 6. Parts affordability, unlike my father's HD parts. HD does stand for Hundred Dollars, right? Guess that's all for now, Dan | ||
| Snub13 |
I think the addition of some type of formal (at the factory) training is imperative. Even fast food places (McDonalds' "Hamburger University" in particular) have this type of thing going on. I agree with Daves comment about not being able to "train passion". However, passion is contagious and, as someone else already pointed out, perhaps "students" at the factory may get infected and spread the Buell Bug at the dealer. P&A is a problem. I understand (from a business point of view) that it is hard to fill already limited shelf space with Buell farkles that don't exactly jump off the shelf. BUT, Toona has hit the nail on the head about impulse shopping. The problem is, how do you get the dealer to stock items that will sit for awhile when they can stock items on the same shelf that will walk out the door on their own. I don't know the answer, maybe mandate a certain square inch of shelf space if you want to be a Buell dealer. I think a Co-op with American Sport Bike, Special Ops, KD Fab, Trojan, Etc, Etc would be fantastic! That is all for now, carry on! |
