| Author | Message | ||
     Snowscum |
Well Davo! I went to the satellite shop of the the place I bought mine after work to get some oil. I bitched up a storm that its not running for crap. One of the service managers told me to bring it around and find out if it had a intake leak. Sure enough. So this may be part of the problem with this bike. We will see when I get it fixed and see if it runs better. I knew something wasnt right!!!!! | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, Good news, an intake leak will cause pinging. Ask them if the timing looked good ok just for the record. The noise that you were describing, is that still present? The slapping might be a the flywheel sprocket nut but I am sure the tech will be able to diagnose it. If they can not fix it then please call the factory or have the dealer call. Get a case number! It would be nice if we knew what the "AFV" value was before and after the intake issue. I speculate it was over 110 if there was a intake leak. 100 is ideal. | ||
| Brat |
Mine's got the full race kit, has done since new and has pinged always, I've tried every octane rating available here (Oz) with no discernable change! Worse two up when hot, Asia's going to be a bitch!  | ||
| Davo |
Brat, Opto has a pinger and he is in the neighborhood. He did some some major changes to the EFI to fix the ping. I would call Buell customer service. It is my opinion that they are close to a fix but they need data from bikes in the field. You need to get a case number. I fixed my pinging and it is easy and FREE. It is not a factory recommended procedure but it will stop the pinging. My solution was to retard till it stops (1mm counterclockwise is 3 degrees). I am running about 7 degrees late! NO problems after several thousand miles! Plugs look good. There are some pingers in the States that are seeking relief from the factory. As you read "Snowscum" had an intake leak which is an easy fix. If the factory can't help you I can send you details of my solution. p.s. is your white wire (not the one with it's own connector between the black and gray connectors) hooked up on the gray connector of the ECM? I heard that some of the Oz bikes may have been set up like that. I would like to find a bike that is and see what the stored AFV is! (Message edited by davo on October 07, 2006) (Message edited by davo on October 07, 2006) | ||
| Opto |
Davo The EFI change didn't really fix the pinging, that's why I want to get some spark control. I found the XB12S pinged and surged uncontrollably with a race ecm. I sent the ecm over to the states to another Badwebber who tried it and also got a lot of pinging. Then that guy sent it to another Badwebber who liked it and had no ping and bought it from me, he's probably still running it now. That's why I think the pinging issue is due to the individual bike. I have no desire at all to put a race ecm on my Uly which is running a drummer and K&N filter, I feel it would be a waste of money. The Uly doesn't ping, but will if it's hot and the fuel isn't the best. Fotunately with the bigger tank it's easier to keep good fuel in it. A couple of years ago it was suggested quite a few times on this board that the race ecm has a more aggressive advance curve. It would be nice to know if this is true and now that some people have the Direct Link software, we might find out. If it is true then a stock ecm would be a good start for those with an issue. | ||
| Anonymous |
Guys, Please, please do communicate with the factory if you have this issue, especially if you have a stock, untouched bike. They indeed are trying to understand it, but unfortunately most of the bikes with reported problems have been modified. Really, that is the truth. Also, despite the frustration for any of you who have the issue, most bikes appear not to have it. So only through research into stock bikes with the problem can it be diagnosed, and the factory needs to be contacted with specifics to do so. Call Customer Service and get a record started. | ||
| Davo |
Anonymous, Thank you for the feed back. There are several stock pingers that are pursuing the problem. I hope that the factory will publish the solution for those of us that do our own service. I called customer service and I was impressed with the knowledge and sincerity of the contact but they could not help me directly because I refused to bring the bike back to the dealer. I have quite of bit of data and have been very active in finding a solution to the problem. My bike no longer pings but is running about 7 degrees late in order to avoid the pinging. Any information that could help us would be appreciated. Other Uly owners that have gone to the race ECM as a solution have sent me their stock ECM's. One Uly owner is sending me a stock ECM from a bike that did not ping. It is my goal to find and publish the problem and a solution. | ||
| Opto |
Other Uly owners that have gone to the race ECM as a solution have sent me their stock ECM's. Davo, did this cure the ping? I knew of a guy in Oz who had pinging probs a couple of years ago and he got nearly every sensor for the fuel injection changed as well as trying a couple more ecm's (through the dealer) and after about 2 weeks hard work they got nowhere. They had an XB12S 2004 with race kit. It's been suggested a couple of times on this board that it could be a combination of sensors. I think it might be bikes with slightly higher compression pressures that ping but that could be total garbage. I do know that it's only a few bikes that do it and how frustrating it is to own one. | ||
| Davo |
Opto, Funny you should say that, I was having a similar thought. There could be several possibilities. Since the difference between the 12 and the 9 is stroke then there has to be a different piston and/or head do accomplish the correct amount of squish. In the event of a substitution for what ever reason on the head for example going to the 9 head should increase the compression ratio significantly. Another idea, I read about a Uly with an oil consumption problem that had a head with a bad casing which had an internal air/oil leak similar to an intake manifold leak. Both of these situations are completely speculative on my part. There is a pinger in the states that is getting the top end checked. Maybe they will find it. If not when I pull my down I will! The factory would do well if they sent you or I a new top end or engine and then we could tell them what the problem is and save them time and money on this issue. It could be a problem with so few bikes that we might be on our own unless we are dealer dependent. My bike runs well and does not feel like it has an air leak. The pinging is very sensitive to advance changes. It has to be the compression ratio. If I put some O2 friendly high octane fuel in the bike I bet she will walk the dog!!! Until then my timing will stay late and I will remain disappointed. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Davo, I'm not even sure if my bike pings or not. I do know what hard pinging sounds like, like a can shaking full of rocks and marbles a rattling away. The ULY's V-twin is not a quiet engine to begin with and I wear foam earplugs to protect my hearing while riding. I still hear what might be construed as pinging but I'm just not certain. My Harley would ping like crazy up in the Black Hills when it got real hot and I would be off-roading it to a hard-to-get-to campsite in the forest. No denying that pinging was going on then. At what rpm were you hearing your pinging because I'm pretty sure if mine is pinging then it doesn't start until after 2.5K rpms. | ||
| Teeps |
Davo, Have you ever checked the compression on your bike? | ||
| Snowscum |
Guys: I'm curious on what damage my intake leak has caused. If they just fix the leak and dont check for valve and piston damage where is this going to take me. I don't really get that much support from my dealer so if this leak started back when I first heard the pinging(at the 1000 mile mark, It has 4000 on it now). The engine noise that I complained about(like piston slap or something in that effect)cause some damage? Would you guys think the dealer will check compression after the fix the leak or will they just blow it off and do the minimum. | ||
| Davo |
Electroglider1997, If it pings like mine the car next to you can here it with the a/c on. There is no question that it is severe pinging. Teeps, Not yet. If I pull the engine down I will check all of the volumes with fluid, do the math and that will tell. I don't want to pull it down but I may be forced to. I am looking at another bike as a semi-replacement but I feel uncomfortable selling the bike to anyone because I would not want them to feel as I do. Snowscum, I would be thankful the problem is fixed and ride it. If the engine is damaged there will be no question. Check the plugs at the next oil change and watch for oil consumption. This is one of the toughest engines ever made!! The old XL engines are bullet proof! | ||
| Red_chili |
Snowscum, I would doubt the dealer would do a teardown on a 'maybe'. Esp. if you have no symptoms at all. There is greater risk of introducing another problem than discovering anything from a marginally lean condition. You know the old saying, "if it ain't broke fix it till it is...". However, if you are like me and I know I am, and you are one anal sunuvagun, you can take it by a service shop of some kind (for instance, I know Burt Toyota has one) that has a scope and they can look inside the cylinder with only the spark plug removal. Used all the time for early detection of headgasket failures on watercooled engines. I expect you'll see only light carbon. Prolly more work than it's worth. | ||
| Teeps |
Maybe and probably. If you suspect engine damage a leak down test will be more revealing. | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, Do you have the bike back yet? | ||
| Snowscum |
I take it in Thursday. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/232442.html?1160445425 I have this issue as well. Im sure I will make ruckass about this when I drop it off. Look at the link in the last post. They wont listen anyways...... (Message edited by snowscum on October 09, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, The engine is out of alignment with the swing arm. | ||
| Snowscum |
Do you think with all the bs so far that this will get fixed? Buell told them the belt is fine. Moving the motor might be over my dealers head. But if it was a harley it wouldnt be an issue...... | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, I would give them a another chance to fix it. Make sure you get your case number and make some "book" on all of your problems so that Buell Customer Service has an opportunity to make their product good. As many times as you have been back to the dealer if I was in charge I would make sure that you were taken care of. If they don't/can't fix it there are many other options available. I really think you will ride away happy! | ||
| Red_chili |
If they refuse, contact Dave (in parts, yeah, I know) at Rocky Mtn. H-D. Give him all the case number info, pix, etc. and see what he can do for you. I think you have an issue. | ||
| Sanchez |
Does anyone have (or can anyone make) a recording of their pinging? I'm curious as to what it sounds like. | ||
| Nutsosane |
Sanchez, I've got nearly 3k on my Uly and it pinged for the first time Monday. When it happened I knew! Absolutely no doubt. It basically sounds of valves rattling under accelleration when using poor gas; TIMES TEN!!! The marble in the paint can analogy is spot on as well. I was so happy to have a bike that didn't ping(so I thought)but now I'm a bit pissed. My XB 12 Lightning never pinged. Not in 10,500 miles of ownership, on the hottest of days, with the most suspect of fuel quality! Endy Ranty for now. NUTS | ||
| Opto |
On my bikes it sounds like a sudden tick-tick-tick-tick-tick when you open the throttle (about as fast as you can say it quickly if you're around 3000rpm) then stops when you back off the throttle. | ||
| 12x_infatuation |
Hi all. I have only about 3300 km on mine & read in the 06/07 airbox thread (i think) that cutting a few extra holes in the airbox takes away that subtle 'bag of marbles' sound from within the motor. I tried this & it did work to some extent tho i wasnt sure if it was pinging or not... Until i got stuck in a hot rod procession/parade last weekend - it was hot & my bike got the hottest its ever been. When i got past the 10 - 15 minute hold up & onto the highway & opened her up to get a bit of air flow i got the 'paint can rattle' sound & i knew that the other sound wasnt pinging. This was the first & only time i have had this happen & once a bit of moving air had cooled my motor it didnt happen again & hasnt since. Apart from the 3 extra holes in my airbox my bike is stock & i usually only run 98 octane fuel. If i could spell the sound mine made when it happened it would be 'tickataticketytickatick' Probably not much help, just my symptoms... | ||
| Opto |
Yeah, the "growling marbles" noise that sometimes comes from the airbox is normal and is distinctly different to the tickety ping sound  | ||
| Davo |
Opto, The light ticking at 3K I think is valve noise. All My Harleys have a considerable valve train noise at 2700-3100 RPM The ULy could be pinging at 3000 rpm with around TPS 10 because the timing soars during that condition. Take a few degrees out and ride round the block. It should help and the surging will reduce as well. I know that you know this but I posted it for the benefit of others on the forum. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
12x- Where does one get 98 octane??? | ||
| Aeholton |
Electraglider, I believe he is in Oz. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Maybe at the airport. |
