| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
"Would somebody smarter than me please explain it to me?" OK  ... (Hey, you walked right into that one ) If HD funds Buell's race effort then they have every right and ability to pull the rug out from under Buell as soon as someone with more interest in stock price than anything else can convince enough people to see that "Buell's race effort isn't going along perfectly" and do so... To me it's not really about Buell "earning" the right to use HD's money. It's about Buell making their own money so they aren't beholden to anyone else. So they can pull their own strings. So the rug doesn't get pulled out from under the racing effort AGAIN. So they have their own goal to make them push harder towards generating the products and money needed to make their OWN race effort. Easy come easy go . They seem to be doing pretty well. | ||
| Jimidan |
Who sez: "Judging from Jeremy's 6th place time during Sunday morning practice, he had the fastest XBRR ever, but it was taken out before the race even started by a minor primary oil leak. Then his backup bike dies on the first lap of the race due to an electrical problem. ARGH!!!" But Elvis likes to watch Buell struggle like this...no, no, he is "thrilled" that they are so frustrated! Buell will appreciate any success much more if they have to do it the old fashioned way...they have to earn it by scratching and clawing their way from rock bottom! Plus we will get better bikes out of it and they will only cost $4000!  jimidan | ||
| Jens |
Buell out lately have been leaking O-rings, blown sensors, ignition problems...minor stuff that probably isn't related to "go for broke" modifications. Jimidan, one thing Buell missed this season completly and that is the most uncalculable factor in Racing: RACERSLUCK! This was a "sometimes you loose and sometimes you canīt win" season... Better days will come! Jens | ||
| Court |
A "hard corps" Buell fan who appears on the largest Buell-cific web venue on one day, never contributes and lights off a personal Erik vendetta less than 72 hours hence. I fear, dear ranter, you shot yourself in the credibility foot before you unholstered your weapon. Buell sure didn't have the first season that some of us hoped for I'm not sure calling anyone a moron really does much to put us back where we'd like to be. Now....go holster than tongue. Poor manners and behavior rarely yield positive results. Court (with fond memories of my day's back in Eudora, KS) | ||
| M1combat |
"Buell has wasted well over $500,000 of other peoples money (and sponsors) on the most embarrassing year yet. I am a hard core Buell fan, and I am disgusted." Well FU2 buddy. Why is it that so many people just don't understand racing... Look at Toyota in F1. They had a "five year plan". I watched the entire thing (Missed Imola in 2004...). They spent 1 BILLION dollars each year for the first five years in F1 with the goal of making ONE win. They failed. They haven't even been a real contender. They're my favorite F1 team, but wins don't come from money. You need to put down enough for sure, but anything over that doesn't make a ton of difference. That said... you can always use more money in racing. No, Buell didn't put down enough (because they couldn't, you can't blame anyone for doing their best) but I also think that their goals weren't quite as lofty as the ones that YOU have that left you so disgusted. That's YOUR fault. Don't fool yourself... top ten finishes are a very good thing. No shortage of money? LOL! Yeah... that deserves another one... LOL! There's ALWAYS a shortage of money in racing. Open your eyes and keep watching. "I am a hard core Buell fan" Maybe... but are you a hard core race fan? If so you'd probably enjoy taking a deeper look into it. One of the very first things that Buell said about the "RR" was that it was conceived and achieved to be a great bike for privateers. To allow them to be competitive wherever they run. That is the case anywhere they'd like to race, but FX is a different game entirely. It's not exactly a game where privateers can be really competitive. So anyway... Step back and take a look at exactly what DID happen this year. Set aside your pre-conceived notions of what Buell was setting out to do, look at what they actually said they were going to do (keep in mind that it's best for Buell to be optimistic) and what actually happened. They did well this season with a new bike, new riders, new tracks for at least one of the riders (and he did well on those unfamiliar tracks ) and not enough money. Keep watching. Oh, and do you REALLY have to vote for yourself? | ||
| Whodom |
Another analogy is Dodge's NASCAR effort. IIRC they first entered the truck racing series in the late 1990's and ran that for 2 or 3 years before they entered the then-Winston Cup series in 2001. They had PLENTY of money, lots of cars, plenty of experience with NASCAR in the truck series, several good drivers, and it still took them 24 races that season before they won a race. I think Buell will beat that by a considerable margin. | ||
| Ceejay |
Jimi-I'm still workin' on this typing thing, right up there with using two forks at the dinner table  If it's true that most of the failures can be attributed to the little electrical bits and 0-rings, not saying that it isn't, then who's pushing Buell to go racing? He probably knows, more so than anyone, how much goes into racing, and how a fifty cent peice can knock you out of the game. I just think that more testing would show great rewards in making the finish line regardless of the position. I think the money is close to being there, why else would there be so many open reqs on Buell.com? Regardless of how well they do or don't, I'll be rooting them on, and probably complaining a bit too... | ||
| Bads1 |
Another guy that has it all figured out.... Moron!!!! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Troll alert. Let it go fellows; just let it go. G2 | ||
| Ceejay |
And I spose you're so intelligent that you don't need to post your opinions/thoughts here??? | ||
| Bads1 |
Ceejay actually I wasn't speaking of you. It was the moron that just had his post deleted. Cool your jets my friend. | ||
| Ceejay |
I guess I'm a bit late, I didn't even see the posts that you and I'm assuming court are reffering too... I need to quite this working thing so I can devote more time to badweb  | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Ceejay, Bads1, Court, et al, I removed the post. Everyone was 'talking' to the poster of the inflammatory post. This whole job for money thing keeps getting in my way too Ceejay G2 | ||
| Rocketman |
JD, it's really unfortunate you have a rather unfortunate view about racing in the rain. I doubt you'd find many who'd share your view, but good luck. I'm certainly not one of them given the size of my balls and my ego. After all, it doesn't take skill to race in the rain. Just a death wish. Have you ever considered entering into political life? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Matt, "If the circuit is dangerous in the rain then it is a fundamentally dangerous circuit and should not be used- period." I strongly disagree. When a track does not have adequate drainage and allows an excessive buildup of water or areas of ponding or cross track rivers, or when the surface of a track becomes inordinately slippery when wet, it may be excessively dangerous in the wet but not necessarily so in the dry. That is the case with Mid-Ohio as I understand it. | ||
| Blake |
I enjoy watching racing in the rain. The scenario that played out in MotoGP was very interesting. The F1 race last weekend was interesting too. I've never chosen to race in the rain though. I don't want to spend the dough on an extra set of wheels and rain tires. | ||
| Cluckcluckpush |
Well, there will be a "next year" by the sounds of anony's post, that is a huge step. Everybody that busted their asses on those teams can get some sleep and focus on next year, as a fan I want to thank them for all the efforts they put in, they didn't get much gratification out of it at the track. THANKS EVERYONE AT BUELL, WE WILL ALWAYS BE HERE PULLING FOR YOU! | ||
| Trojan |
Blake, My point about circuits that are dangerous in the rain is this: Most of them are quoted as being dangerous in the rain because there are inadequate run off areas or grass run off areas, fences too close etc. This for some reason only becomes an issue in the rain, when in fact they are there all the time. If the circuit has inadequate drainage then it isn't fit for all year round racing and should not be scheduled for a race meeting at the end of September, when rain is likely. It isn't just the safety angle either. There will be people that paid to go to Mid O at the weekend who probably don't have a deep understanding of racing, or who have never been to a meeting before. They will have left with the impression that all racing is a disorganised shambles and probably won't go back. TV companies won't think of scheduling live events if a little weather will wreck their schedules, and sponsors will think twice about investing in a sport that limps from practice session to session without any idea of what is going to happen next. The AMA should have either stated categorically and clearly that no racing would take place if it rained, or just got on with it. The Superbike Heat race system, whilst overdue, was fatally flawed by giving the top guys a let off into the final regardless of if they raced or not in the heats. This gave rise to the ridiculous situation of the top 14 qualifiers not bothering to take to the track, and just 6 riders 'racing'. Not what the paying fans want to see really is it? I must be one of those masochists Jimi, as I always looked forward to racing in the wet weather myself, and still do as a team owner  It gives us small guys a better fighting chance I sympathise with the Buell teams at the weekend. It is even more frustrating when a small problem ends your race than when a big one does. If you get a piston through the cases you can shrug and say 'oh well', but O rings and sensors are just poor luck. I hope we see the guys back next year, although I really hope we see the Warr's guys racing in England. By the way, Chaz Davies is looking for a ride in the US next year. He was 5th in Supersport and 8th in FX at the weekend on a year old R6, in his first US meeting and first on a 600. Buell could do a lot worse than sign him up! (Message edited by trojan on October 05, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
There's a saying in software engineering (my field). I think it's applicable to many racing efforts...
It has been my experience that the same can often be said for money. If you want to learn how to outspend the other teams, Harley could do that in a heartbeat. If you want to learn how to outrace the other teams, that's gonna take some time and experience. As a Buell fan, I'm thrilled to see an XBRR out there mixing it up and getting better and smarter all the time. | ||
| Brucelee |
For those of you who think Buell should have had instant success, take a look at the recent history of BMW in F1. Take a brilliant company, a great set of racing partners, add some billions and you have .......squat. But, they keep coming. Go Buell! | ||
| Glitch |
Nail on the head Reep!  | ||
| Court |
>>>As a Buell fan, I'm thrilled to see an XBRR out there mixing it up and getting better and smarter all the time. Ditto that. This is an exciting program. I'm pleased to see that some smart folks are not over-reacting, but taking what they've learned and preparing the next phase. I have my own, Court generated, quote I often use in Project meetings...."if you think money will solve any problem, you don't understand the problem". Buell Racing is going to continue to get more exciting! Court | ||
| Ikeman |
Court, ...."if you think money will solve any problem, you don't understand the problem". You should teach a civics class...you just summed up our Federal Gubmint in one sentence  ! | ||
| Court |
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| Rocketman |
Bruce, why not take a look at 1982, BMW's entry year into F1 when they had their engine in Nelson Piquet's Brabham? Piquet won the Canadian GP that same year, BMW's debut season. The next season saw Piquet win four GP's and take the world title. Remember 1993 when BMW designed and developed the engine for the McLaren F1 road car? Officially clocked at 234 mph at Nardo, that record has stood until just recently when the Bugatti Veron finally eclipsed it. Congratulating Buells racing efforts by comparing them with BMW's in F1 means absolutely zilch. In this case your comparo seems floored anyway given BMW's overall racing history where they were amazingly successful in the 40's and 50's, particularly in F2 with their 1600cc engine. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
M1, he said this: "the more Buell has to work and earn that, the better the bikes that you and I buy will be." That is what I want explained, not this: "If HD funds Buell's race effort then they have every right and ability to pull the rug out from under Buell as soon as someone with more interest in stock price than anything else can convince enough people to see that "Buell's race effort isn't going along perfectly" and do so... To me it's not really about Buell "earning" the right to use HD's money. It's about Buell making their own money so they aren't beholden to anyone else. So they can pull their own strings. So the rug doesn't get pulled out from under the racing effort AGAIN. So they have their own goal to make them push harder towards generating the products and money needed to make their OWN race effort." Wanna try again? Besides, if you think HD does not control all money that Buell "makes" on its "own", you really should take a refresher course in Wholly Owned Subsidiaries. HD owns them and can have their way with any money they generate. I would call that beholden...by the short hairs even. We are not talking about a teen-aged son here (in spite of some who try) who gets a job and makes his own money so that his parents cannot tell him how to spend it. We are talking about a business entity can only act through its directors, officers and employees. When we say HD has "control" it includes both practical and theoretical control...pulling the plug, as it were. I don't think HD wants to pull the plug on Buell racing, just yet, if they think they can get some positive PR out of it. That will require results. I don't think that Buell's results so far have endeared them to those inside the MoCo who would like to see Buell just go away. But they haven't acted on it. Let's just hope that the 4th quarter earnings for HD are good...we all know what happened to Buell FX racing the last time there was a 17% drop. jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
Micombat sez: "One of the very first things that Buell said about the "RR" was that it was conceived and achieved to be a great bike for privateers. To allow them to be competitive wherever they run. That is the case anywhere they'd like to race, but FX is a different game entirely. It's not exactly a game where privateers can be really competitive." That is what I have been trying to tell you...I guess some of it must have soaked in.  jimidan | ||
| Brucelee |
Bruce, why not take a look at 1982, BMW's entry year into F1 when they had their engine in Nelson Piquet's Brabham? Piquet won the Canadian GP that same year, BMW's debut season. The next season saw Piquet win four GP's and take the world title. Remember 1993 when BMW designed and developed the engine for the McLaren F1 road car? Officially clocked at 234 mph at Nardo, that record has stood until just recently when the Bugatti Veron finally eclipsed it. Congratulating Buells racing efforts by comparing them with BMW's in F1 means absolutely zilch. In this case your comparo seems floored anyway given BMW's overall racing history where they were amazingly successful in the 40's and 50's, particularly in F2 with their 1600cc engine. Rocket Chill out man. My point was NOT to bash BMW (I drive one, I love it!) but to point out how tough it is to break into racing and immed. succeed. Examples of the 80s are not all that relevant in my opinion. And, I was not trying to pump up or excuse the Buell effort. I don't think Buell has anything to apologize for. And you have some testosterone issues that need attending to. | ||
| Jimidan |
Court sez: "I have my own, Court generated, quote I often use in Project meetings...."if you think money will solve any problem, you don't understand the problem". I don't think that money will solve all of the XBRR's problems, but it would go a long way in helping some, especially those that can be ironed out with development track time. You have to have a minimum amount just to operate though, and make it to all of the races. Buell has not been getting that minimum until recently...I don't know what happened to change that or why. There are certain issues that will not go away that the engineers are forced to contend with and try to design around...like the engine. It is a lump for sure on race bike, when competing against modern IL-4s. No amount of money can overcome that fact. Not a bad street engine though. jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on October 05, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
"That is what I have been trying to tell you...I guess some of it must have soaked in." Right... . That first part then... I'm not sure why it would matter who funds the development that makes it onto the street. I can certainly see why Buell will want to fund their own racing effort though, and it's that arena that puts stuff on the street. Wouldn't wholly owned imply 100% ownership? Or is it 51% in the business world? |
