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M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:52 am: | 
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"hard track time ain't NOTHING like pc sims or other fantasy - absolutely NO offence intended. "
Read the beginning and end of my post again.
I've talked to Bob Bondurant about his experiences with training simulation racers. He tells me that sim racers tend to have less trouble learning car control, but the ones who have learned a lot of the mental aspects of racing in a simulator can transfer 99% of that knowledge (keep in mind I'm talking about line choice, decision making process, race craft, strategy etc... not riding the bike as such...) to the racetrack and be better off because of it. It essentially gives you wisdom on the track.
I know a number of guys in their midthirties to forties that race in classes like Pro-Solo, Solo II, AIX, Speed GT... Every one of them that have tried will tell you that a good simulator (read "Not Game", I'm not talking gran-tourismo here...) is a worth while investment in time.
There's a reason the military uses ultra-realistic simulators for combat flight operations... It's because they can hone the decision making and overall mental process of a fighter pilot w/o the risk and expense.
They work...
Actually learning the mechanics of controlling a plane... different thing for sure, but once you have BOTH the ability to fly and the wisdom gained in the simulator... Well... There are a few reasons that the US and Israel have 80% of the top fighter pilots in the world... Simulators are one of the reasons.
"let alone when u realise u are actually leaned over far enough for something to touch down - likely yr outside of toes - &"
Yeah... I'm on my third pair of boots. Now I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs (sometimes just the inside one). It never made me stand the bike up though. Not even the first time. This is exactly what made me decide to get to the racetrack (well, the last straw anyhow, I've always wanted to). |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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well well .. i reread & discover its abt cars .. aha..
my bad.
i never implied it made YOU stand anything up - touching yr toe - it made ME stand bike up first couple of times - yup, pu$$y i was.
& i am not afraid to admit i fear massice wheelies too.
yes crashing IS ultraviolence.
i was tying to be helpful being all general pointers no-one else had mentioned, but when u mention something different, there are always the interweb pitbulls ready to launch!
i'll save blake the trouble & keep my discoveries to myself - where they are welcome. (blake - u shot me one in the *racing* section to, hence why i am taking umbrage at you. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 01:16 pm: |
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I appreciate pointers for sure... Don't get me wrong  . I've never really experienced much fatigue in my arms from riding hard in the canyons but legs for sure . Have you found any specific workout techniques that have helped? I'd be very interested in those.
I'm not a big fan of wheelies either . I like the long and low ones, but as soon as the front comes off the ground more than about six inches I get a little nervous. I like jumps quite a bit though...
Crashing is certainly like nothing else . I rode dirtbikes from not too long after I learned to walk and have taken some pretty nasty spills on those...
I still think my step mother was trying to kill me when she bought me a 250 2-stroke dirtbike when I turned nine... |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
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Crashing sux. You can quote me on that.
My first racing crash happened on the fastest spot at Willow - the exit of turn 8. I hit the pavement at about 130 on my back but didn't start tumbling until hitting the dirt. Fortunately, I was probably down to maybe 30-40 when I did the final flops. Broke my wrist (ulna actually) but was able to pit for Scott Jensen in the Toyota 200 that afternoon between icing my hand.
Got a carpal tunnel wrist support and a throttle rocker, borrowed a larger right glove and raced the SV while the Buell was in "recovery."
I've raced with a broken foot/sprained ankle (after a tumbling get-off in morning practice) - fixed the bike in time to race that afternoon and kept the boot on and laced up and elevated til after my race.
That pissed my doctor off - I didn't see him for 3 weeks when I couldn't get my foot to flatten out and he told me I cracked 2 metatarsals (one mildly displaced) and 3 toes. Foot really looks funny in sandals now.
I've headed in to tech my bike after dropping it with my hand bleeding so badly that I had the techie say my bike would be OK but until/unless the EMT's cleared me, he wasn't letting me out on the track. Kinda ugly with blood dripping out the backside of the glove but I pulled off a fingertip and stripped off a bunch of skin. Next month I raced with a plastic fingernail and skin graft under a rubber glove and used baby powder to pull on the race glove.
Budget about 3 crashes a season and you're about right.
My last big crash took me out of work about 3 months with 2 cracked vertebra, 2 broken ribs, broken ankle, shattered collarbone, detatched retina, blown sinus, subdural hematoma. Cool thing about that one was the brain injury - can't remember a thing! Did I mention morphine? |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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Don,
Running and squats. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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I meant to say bicycling too. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 05:47 pm: |
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Running for cardio? I've never been much of a runner but Jiu-Jitsu works wonders for cardio and toning all those muscles you don't generally use...
I can pedal pretty well though... Maybe I should pick up a bicycle as well and just start running the spars on that...
Thanks for the answers . |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 05:51 pm: |
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I'd agree with everyone on spending most of your initial $$$ in suspension & track time, and the best protective gear you can afford. I wouldn't even do the chain conversion right off the bat either. Get the bike legal to race (safety wire the proper fasteners, belly pan or race body), then see what it does on the track. I know a few people that race completely stock bikes (including the belt drive) with no problems, and are quite fast to boot.
Once you have a season or two under your belt, and a good understanding of what the machine can do and what your limits are, then take one modification at a time. Do the chain conversion & invest in different sprockets. Take the knowledge you gained form previous track time and use it to properly gear your bike for each track. Next, either shave weight off your bike or invest in some engine mods.
Good luck and have fun!
Chris |
Buellrcr
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 07:14 pm: |
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i raced a 12r stock motor micron pipe american sport bike map. 98 hp 80ftlbs of torque. is the current mid atlantic champ, one race maybe 2 i might get to beat up on on anthony. will see. get ctr to do your forks and get a rear shock and chain drive. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 07:56 am: |
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Running for legs and cardio both. Seems like most of the pros are into the bicycling regimen for training. |
Mutation_racer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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YOUR LUCKY i won't be at vir |
Mutation_racer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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HAT OFF TO KEITH AND HIS DAD FOR THEIR GREAT SEASON OF RACING. ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ON BEHALF OF LIBERTY HD-BUEL, THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP YOU GUY GAVE US THIS YEAR IT WAS GREAT PITTING WITH YOU RED-NECK, ALSO BUILDING A FRIENDSHIP FOR MANY YEARS TO COME. I NOW HAVE SOME REBEL BLOOD IN ME , THANKS AGAIN AND I HOPE WE GET TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AT DAYTONA P.S. SORRY ABOUT THE CAP LOCKS |
Buellrcr
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:20 am: |
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same to you yankees u are alright for a white guy, i let u know how i do at vir this weekend, will i guess ican get by with out my blocker. |
Mutation_racer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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Now last race believe someone was blocking for me. anyway you know if i was ganna be their i would deff. be right next to you good luck bud. kick some a$$ |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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Hey, Steve, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep telling more and more of that story. I need someone to convince me to not start racing bikes.
-Saro |
Buellrcr
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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thanks ant wish u could be their racing with me |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
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An S&S Super G--why in gods name ewould you use an old outdated carb like that?Move into modern times with a Mikuni you can actually tune for all rpm ranges.Super G good for one thing(sorta) --wide open throttle. |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:15 pm: |
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steve .. that was brutal story .. doesn't frighten me off, but i think detaching eyes & vertebrae fractures are a little scary.
had the neck scare .. mashed the knees 3 times - met a new lady & after 2 days of action, i must say.. knee is a little sore from being a tripod! ;P |
Neb25
| | Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Buellrcr,
What are you using for brakes on your 12R? |
Buellrcr
| | Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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ebc hh |
Neb25
| | Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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Stock caliper and disk with ebc hh? Do you experience any fade? |
Buellrcr
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 04:30 pm: |
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no not on sprint races a little on endurnce race. on other bike i got brembo master cylinder they are alsome |
Neb25
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 08:19 pm: |
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Buellrcr,
Thanks for the info. I am trying to find a setup that works better than stock. I just started doing track days this summer and as I got faster the stock setup was just not working for me. I have also read that the nissin 804 pads are really good but the XBRR caliper is the best way to go but expensive. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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Diablomichael has developed a preference for dp (formerly dunlopad) brake pads for racing. EBC HH (kit pads) come a close second.
Many here have also had good experiences with Lyndall Racing Brake pads. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 01:27 pm: |
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I just got a set of the Lyndall Racing Brakes "HH" pads... Apparently they're different from the "Gold" pads that Al generally sells. I've got a trackday coming up and if I can figure out which way the track goes well enough to test the brakes I'll write up a little review... At that point I'll have used the stock pads, the EBC "HH" pads, The Lyndall Golds and the Lyndall "HH"s...
So far I like the EBC "HH"s and the stock pads, but the stock pads left funky deposits on the rotor... The Lyndall Golds do as well.
More to come the end of the month. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 05:29 am: |
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If you are using the stock caliper then you might also want to try the following pads:
Braking 855 CM55 compound sintered.
These are a big improvement oer the stock pads and don't seem to overheat or leave deposits on the disc either. They are also cheap at GBP16.16 a pair (US$30 approx). |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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Good call Trojan, we don't see a lot of Braking brand parts at the tracks over here.
If we want them we'll have to order them early (like any other XB part  ) |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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We try and keep a good stock of these as they sell very well, so we can always ship them for you |
Zac
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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Some thoughts on the earlier postings:
Games: I don't do the video games. I tried one of the "real" driving simulators (F1 Legends or something like that) and couldn't get the car around the track for a lap. One the other hand, some people swear by them. I talked to Shawn Higbee at a riding school and he is a firm believer. A real fast friend of mine used to compete in an online racing league. He said the metal fatigue he would experience in a 2 hour online race (you crash, you're out, no reset button, could screw you season) was at least on par with the mental fatigue of motorcycle racing.
Training: Don't laugh, but Pilates is supposedly great for a MC racer. My training is mostly mountain biking and running (currently training for a half-marathon). I can't stand road-bicycling (boring), and mountain biking gives you a better full body workout if riding technical trails. Though it also brings a risk of injury with it, especially the ski lift up / downhill runs at Sunrise I am fond of. Motocross (big bikes or minis) is also a great trainer, but again comes with a risk of injury.
My wife (who races) is also a triathalete, and now training for her first full ironman (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, 26.2 mile run, she's projecting about 15 hours). Let's just say a sprint race doesn't tire her out.
Funny thing, the most physically demanding bike I've ever ridden is my 230lb TZ250. The bars are super low and super narrow, so the rider has little leverage. The least demanding phisically (but not mentally because it always tried to kill me) was my CR500 motard, sitting up high with lots of leverage.
Crashing: I only tend to crash 1-2 times per season. I know guys who only crash every few seasons, and guys that crash almost every weekend. I don't get paid, so I'm not going to ride through a semi-serious injury. I did try to ride with a broken right wrist once (didn't know it was broken at the time), but couldn't brake well enough to be safe on the track.
-z. |
Gearhead
| | Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 07:53 pm: |
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This has been an interesting thread but I'd like to get back to Yohinan's original question about engine mods.
As a fledgling racer, one race day and three races total, I know I have a LOT to work on before I need or should worry about the engine but I don't use the name "Gearhead" for nothing! I'm curious what the fast guys are doing? Henry Duga and others in this thread have mentioned the "9" piston conversion in the "12" for more compression and I've heard and read about crankshaft lightning for faster revs and less rotating mass.
In CCS competition most of the classes Buells run in are unlimited "cc" so my guess is that guys are doing more than just boring the cylinders.
I know there are plenty of fast guys who win with minimal mods but if you wanted to do an engine up, what would you do? |
Jetrider802
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 09:04 pm: |
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My dad always tells me that Caroll Shelby said "tune your motor gain 10hp, tune your chassis gain 50hp". Mr. Shelby was talking about car road racing of course, but the thought process holds true for bikes.
Spend your money on your suspension first. Getting your bike in, through, and out of the corner the fastest will make it look like it has 20hp over the competition. |
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