| Author | Message | ||
     44mag2 |
Will the plugs tell me if my engine is being damaged by the ping? I pulled my plugs ... One plug is white and powdery, the other is yellowish. The integrity of the electrodes look OK. What does this mean? | ||
| 44mag2 |
This map of fuel standards may help determine if the fuel is the culprit. If you ping, are you in an area with non-conventional fuel standards? I am in an area that with Oxygenated fuel and 7.8 RVP (whatever that is). http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/06/the_case_for_mo.html | ||
| 44mag2 |
From what I have read, oxygenated fuels (like adding ethanol) will only cause a ping if the engine already has carbon deposits. I still don't know what RVP is. Also, the fuel here only has ethanol from nov-dec. | ||
| 44mag2 |
I just read that oxygenated fuels in a carb engine will make the mixture leaner, which leads to higher temps and increases the chance for ping. Even though our bikes are fuel injected, will the oxygenated fuels cause us to run lean? http://www.geocities.com/vwresource/octane.html | ||
| Davo |
44MAG2, Look for blistered insulators or bleached white super clean appearance of electrodes and/or insulators. Glazed grayish color could also indicate undesirably hot combustion chambers. Small metal particles indicates excessive heat as well! Yellow color and powder would indicate to me that there might have been fuel additives used in the past. (easy call knowing the history) The fact that the two are different might get my attention. I would check for an intake manifold leak if the dealer had not just gave it the once over. | ||
| 44mag2 |
I checked for an intake leak. None. Also, when I retard the timing, the ping is significantly eliminated. Also, the dealer just had the bike for 2 weeks, I assume that they also checked for an intake leak. The yellow plug ... actually, it is more tan than yellow ... with some white. The white plug is simply white. I think the white plug came from the rear cylinder (My 5 month old daughter started having a fit in the middle right after I got my second plug out .... I set them down to attend to the kid, and I got them mixed up ... OOPS). However, if white is evidence of a hot chamber, it makes sense that the rear cylinder would be hotter. OK ... what SHOULD my plugs look like? | ||
| Davo |
It is my experience that the front plugs seem to be more heat stressed on most HD engines. Is your timing still just about 2 degrees late? My bike pinged terribly until I went to at least 5 degrees late. Fuel additives helped but I would rather rebuild than ping! My bike will still pull the front wheel up in 1st so it can't be too far down on power. | ||
| 44mag2 |
As of this morning, I am about 3 degree's late again. It still pings a little, but not much. Power seems fine and I got 49 MPG after 110 miles of country roads and city traffic (most miles were on the country roads, but 1/2 the time was in the city traffic). | ||
| Brat |
I've found that my Uly pings less when cold and the air is cold (early morning), at that point I can get the front wheel up easily when just screwing on the throttle in first and second, as the pinging get's worse so does engine response! By the time everything is warm I feel like the engines power is 80%  | ||
| Davo |
44mag2, Drop me a pm asap! There is a solution just over the horizon! (Message edited by davo on October 02, 2006) | ||
| Snowscum |
Same for me Brat. This weekend it was mild here and it didnt take but 6 miles and the engine was hot and pinging. The power goes away with the pinging. As soon as I get the dealer to get the drive belt situation straighten out with harley Ill have them check the timing. But its been two weeks since they took pictures. They dont have a clue whats chewing my belt. Nor do they seem to really care. I just keep riding it...... | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, Did you get a case# with Buell regarding your pinging problem? | ||
| Snowscum |
No Davo. As far as the dealer is concerned the pinging isnt a problem. | ||
| Davo |
Is it your opinion that it is the dealer that does not care about the pinging problem or is it the factory that does not care? I am concerned that the factory is not really aware of the problem because if they were I am sure they would try to fix the problem. There is a lot riding on these current Buells and I am one that would like to see Buell be successful. This is tough because I am one that would not purchase the bike again tomorrow with the pinging issue intact. | ||
| Snowscum |
I really think the dealer could care less if it pings. Ive told them enough about it without being a jerk. If it was a grave concern they would of never let me drive it away 8 times now. Oh I am all over Buell being successful. But I dont think I should have todo pay a dime when its a brand new bike. I shelled out enough dough. This thing should run consistant without having to have to pay for a tune up. Its all about the money. If it blows and they try and screw me I will bad mouth harley forever not Buell. | ||
| Davo |
Understood! I share some of your frustration. I am trying to work towards a solution that will assist you and others with the pinging problem. I think there might be some minor underlying issues because most people are not having the same problem that a handful of us have had. When was your bike made? | ||
| Snowscum |
I think DEC 05. It didnt ping in the first 1000 miles. You know another thing its starting todo is taking its time getting back down to idle when letting off throttle. Almost like its sticking. I dont think a tps reset will fix that. Not sure why it started doing that. It only happens after it gets hot. Mostly after getting off the highway. (Message edited by snowscum on October 03, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Mine did the same thing at the stock timing setting. I attribute it to the advance numbers going back to zero more slowly or having further to go to hit zero. As advance occurs the RPM will increase without any changes in the Throttle (TPS). Thanks for the mentioning it. I thought I was having the same condition yesterday during a stock timing setting test run. Now I am certain it was sensitive to the timing change. By the way it pinged severely during the test run @ initial 3 degrees or less! I am back at 7 retarded from stock. What stock is in numerical value is being determined as the sole issue of pursuit! In short when VDSTS reads zero is that TDC(really 0) or X. I need to know what X is as it was engineered from the factory. ie if VDSTS reads 3 and X=7 then actual advance is 10. Thanks! | ||
| Davo |
By the way any of you pinging Uly's ever tried a CPS replacement? Do you have significant surging at 3000 RPM(around 60 mph light cruise) 9-11 TPS when hot? Will more or less throttle make the surging go away? | ||
| Opto |
You know another thing its starting to do is taking its time getting back down to idle when letting off throttle. Drop your idle speed a little with the idle speed adjuster and it will stop doing that, that's a common Buell characteristic, has been discussed on this board many times. Davo, at least a few XB12's (not Uly's) got many sensor's replaced to no avail. I have an idea that the XB12's with good cylinder sealing may be more prone to pinging, since the motor is "on the edge" to start with. Edit: 44Mag your plugs should look identical, suspect an air leak. (Message edited by opto on October 03, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Opto, It appears that there are a many Uly's that do not have any pinging as reported on the forum in the past. I am wondering if it might be in the ECM. I have another BadWebers's stock ECM and the timing numbers look identical to mine. That bike pinged as well. I have a friend with a xb12 that does not have a pinging problem either. My pinging was so severe that there is no question that others would ping under the same conditions. | ||
| Snowscum |
Thanks for the email info. Ill try when I get a chance to sit on hold. Speaking ECM. The dealer told me thats the only way to really get rid of the pinging is tweak the timing and fuel curve using their direct link software at a $450 cost to me. Thats what burns me is why should it cost me anything? Its a new bike am I right? | ||
| Thunderbox |
I honestly think the pinging is caused by poor gas. My bike has 20000kms on it and it has only pinged when I was traveling in the States. Not at every fill but probably 4 different times it pinged. I have never had a ping problem in Canada. I have gone over the Rockies several times and had no ping problem related to the altitude. I also notice that the complaints seem to be all from State side owned bikes. Is there any Canadians who have experienced any pinging problems? Maybe we could find out who has a ping problem and what gas they use. Who doesn't have the problem and what kind of gas they use. Maybe Blake could set up a survey to get this done. | ||
| Snowscum |
The last time I was in there the dealer was blaming the gas. Well if its the gas then tune it at your expense. They told me that all the new harleys coming in are pinging. But you know what? Their fixing them. Mine? Well its a Buell...... | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, DirectLink is after market software. It appears that your dealership is taking the easy way out. In doing so they are circumventing the process and preventing a factory fix. It is regrettable because these bikes are way too cool to dye the slow death of ignorance and apathy. Lets give the factory some time to come up with a solution. If they don't, I have a solution that is FREE and easy but it aint factory! Also, I am waiting for a right side scoop to arrive in the mail any day. I will be doing some test runs to see how the scoop effects with the pinging problem. (Message edited by davo on October 04, 2006) (Message edited by davo on October 04, 2006) | ||
| Lorazepam |
Davo, work and other things have kept me busy, I will get the ECM out to you today or tomorow. I hope it proves pinging is an ecm thing, and you guys get relief. | ||
| Davo |
Lorazepam, Is it a stock Uly ECM with no modifications? Any prior pinging? (Message edited by davo on October 04, 2006) | ||
| Lorazepam |
stock ecm, no mods and no pinging. | ||
| Davo |
very cool! | ||
| Bearly |
My purely stock Uly has only pinged twice this summer. It had to be 90+ degrees and stuck in DC traffic to have this happen. I was uncomfortable and I felt my bike was letting me know that it was uncomfortable as well. Within a mile of clean air and a steady airflow it all disappeared. I still needed a Gatorade though. I have 3k miles on it. It gets about 50 mpg and has plenty of power 1st gear wheelies having to feather the gas to keep the front wheel near the ground. (unless...) I just wanted to be informative for comparison. |
