| Author | Message | ||
     44mag2 |
I wrote a detailed letter to Buell CS describing the ping problem. As per Buell's instructions, I dropped off the bike at the dealer so the factory and dealer techs could work together to troubleshoot the problem. They had my Uly for two weeks so the dealer could work with Buell to solve the ping problem. The response from Buell customer service was "There is nothing we can do, just ride the bike, and if it breaks, it is still under warranty". Basically, they blew me off. I heard this message second hand through the dealer, so I will call Buell in person to confirm. Disappointing. Not what I expected from Buell. With Buell's small market share, it seems like they would attempt to address the concerns of their customers, so they become repeat customers. | ||
| Whodom |
The response from Buell customer service was "There is nothing we can do, just ride the bike, and if it breaks, it is still under warranty". Basically, they blew me off. 44mag2, I don't know how bad your pinging is, but it occurs to me the statement above is probably the dealer's translation of Buell saying something like: "We have evaluated the bike and the level of ignition pinging is normal and acceptable and will not cause any engine damage. The customer's warranty is still in effect so he has nothing to worry about." I'll be interested to read what Buell CS actually tells you. | ||
| Raceautobody |
If that is the case, Buell is thinking you are only expecting to own your bike for two years at the most, then trade it in for a new one. The customer's warranty is still in effect so he has nothing to worry about." | ||
| Daves |
"I heard this message second hand through the dealer, so I will call Buell in person to confirm." I would be very surprised if the Buell Tech Services people actually said it that way. | ||
| Davo |
Pinging is an easy fix. The first thing is to make sure there that you do not have and intake manifold leak. If there is no leak then retard ignition until it stops. There are a lot of folks that are fueling these bikes out of the pre-ignition zone. Unlike most vehicles the CPS is not fixed so you can move it! Go counter-clockwise 1mm at a time until it stops. 1mm = 3 degrees. My bike is 7+ degrees late! No pinging, no overheat, and the plugs look great. There is a timing issue with these bikes but that is my opinion If you set it up according to the factory and put a light on it then you will understand. | ||
| Davo |
44mag2 I am sorry for the last post. I didn't catch that the original post was yours. I know that you are already aware of my fix. I am also sorry that the factory could not fix the problem. I am not surprised because they have a lot of regulation, restrictions, and "suits" watching over them. Glad to hear from you I was wondering where you have been. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Davo, I will likely use your method. However, it is cool here now so I probably will not worry about it until it warms up again. It will be interesting to hear 1st hand what Buell has to say regarding the lack of action on this problem. What suits are to referring to? | ||
| Davo |
Lawyers! | ||
| Davo |
AFV is sensitive to spark timing that is why they can't move it. (Message edited by davo on September 19, 2006) | ||
| Ntmmd8r |
I'm sick and tired of these corporate goons, and dealers telling me and others, that there crap is okay, just live with it. Well explain that to the guy you try and pawn it off to in a couple of years. These so called "non-problems" do nothing but kill the value of my bikes. Maybe I'll luck out and find some idiot who buys these excuses...but I doubt it. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm sick and tired of these corporate goons Please drop me a note and tell me which corporate "goons" fed you crap. I have a phone conference with the goons today and it'd be great fodder to nail them with. I'm gonna have a piece of their ass for going above and beyond and providing warranty service for bikes who's warranty expired 8 years ago. Can you believe the goons just replaced a 1997 fuel tank that was bubbling. Someone needs to tell them their legal commitment expired 8 years ago. Court | ||
| Teeps |
Ntmmd8r, Point your disgust towards the Government; the E.P.A. to be more exact. Buell has their hands tied when it comes to emission compliance. I suspect our bikes are on the razor's edge of pass/fail in that respect. In other words, we're lucky they are still air/oil cooled. And, run as well as they do. | ||
| Teeps |
44mag2, Ask the Buell district service manager to put in writing that the pinging is normal. Then ask Buell to extend the warranty of your engine to 50k miles or some other arbitrary number. Buell's reaction to your request will be a good indicator of how concerned you should be, or 'How Normal' the condition is. | ||
| Court |
>>>I suspect our bikes are on the razor's edge of pass/fail in that respect. Your suspicions are inaccurate. Buell, from an exhaust emissions perspective, is years ahead of federal regs and, in fact, meets the yet to be introduced coming CARB regs. I **think** Buell is the only one that is meeting the future regs w/o a CC. I could be wrong, someone will check and let me know. Ditto, the acoustic emissions. Buell, when they snagged Ms Trenkle (now an acoustic consultant living in the Kingdom of CA) was light years, during the evolution of the Helmholz (See also: Dr. Amar G. Bose) took induction acoustics to a new level.....or more accurately LACK of a LEVEL. | ||
| Josh_cox |
I think that Buell is currently good through 2010 for epa jazz. | ||
| Xbimmer |
How come my stock bike with the CA-Canister smells like a 1970 HemiCharger when I fire it up cold, but when started up after a hot shutdown fills the air with that "overly lean" stink? Confusion in the ECM? Damn these complicated electronics!  | ||
| Davo |
Cold start up has extra advance and no "after burner" effect on the pipes. That is why it smells rich when cold. Also open loop cold start is designed for easy starting. The lean smell is because any chemically reducing environment may get rid of targeted emissions but it makes some new emissions of its own, oxides of nitrogen, NOx. The molecules got to go somewhere. If you reduce HC and CO then out comes NOx and other garbage. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
That's great that they replaced an 8 year old gas tank. Still doesn't solve the problem people are having today with NEW bikes. Maybe they'll take care of this problem in 8 years too | ||
| Blake |
Anyone anywhere hear of any holed pistons in any XBs? No? Okay then. What problem are you talking about? A noise? | ||
| Teeps |
I'm glad to hear that '06 Buell bikes exceed E.P.A. emissions maximum limits by more than the razor's edge. Any chance of seeing the actual certification numbers? | ||
| Red_chili |
If I had my druthers, I could wish mine only *just* met EPA, personally. Chili thinkum intake acoustics good. Me like. Chili thinkum some exhaust song good. Me like lots. Chili thinkum 13.5 A/F good. Makey mo power. Run cooler. Chili go back to eat brontosaurus rib now and crawl back in cave. (Message edited by red_chili on September 21, 2006) | ||
| Court |
>>>Any chance of seeing the actual certification numbers? I can't imagine it'd be much problem since they mandated by and filed with public agencies. The good news is YOU own the test results. I doubt this stuff could be classified. The means may be proprietary, but the results are not. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Blake, What do you mean by the following statement? "Anyone anywhere hear of any holed pistons in any XBs? No? Okay then. What problem are you talking about? A noise?" Are you implying that the ping will not damage the engine? Just clarifying before I respond. | ||
| 44mag2 |
I just got off the phone with Buell for the 2nd time in 2 days. So far, the official response is (paraphrased) "There is nothing wrong with your bike. It is bad gasoline, so there is nothing we can do". OK, maybe it is the gas, however, I have taken great pains to get the best gas available with no added ethanol. I have also tried many brands with no improvement. (Besides, don't they run these things off E85 in Brazil???? Maybe not.) I asked for a specific factory fix, and I got none. I was without my Uly for 2 weeks. Next, I specifically asked for factory advice on fuel additives to solve the fuel problem, if it exists. They said they will get back to me. Finally, because the factory does not seem inclined to fix the problem, I asked for an extension on the engine warranty, so I can at least have it fixed if the pinging damages the engine. The answer was "Why should I do that? I know you are fiddling with your bike.". Of course I would not NEED to fiddle with the bike if the factory would give me a fix. Oh yeah, they also insist that it is CRITICAL that the timing NOT be retarded to solve the ping. Of course they won't tell me why, except that it is required for proper operation. I am frustrated. And so far, I am very, very disappointed with Buell. Initially, I was optimistic because I was confident that Buell would stand by their product. I have also gone to great pains to remain reasonable, patient and polite. My requests are reasonable, and I have been blown off. On the positive note, my dealer was very helpful ... they did everything they could within the factory guidelines to fix the problem. (Paradise Harley Davidson/Buell in Oregon). | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
My 97' Harley pinged like crazy in the Black Hills when I would trail ride it back into the forest to our campsite. Never seemed to bother it. Still running like a champ with 40+k miles on it. | ||
| Red_chili |
Ping = spark starting flame front too soon, resulting in maximum force released prior to top dead center. Fiddle on, Garth. Just do it in very small increments until the spark starts the flame front exactly where it needs to. It is interesting that a *few* bikes have ping, while most do not. Some variability in play here. | ||
| Davo |
If you have a xb that doesn't ping then I would like for you to post some parameters. IF Stock ECM (or race ECM if pinging exists) TPS 10-12 (steady) Engine above 307 F (or at full operating temperature) cruising steady at 2950-3000 RPM for at least 30 seconds(on the road or dyno) What is your front spark timing number? Is it 52-55 degrees BTDC? Was it only 45 degrees max. while approaching and or after exceeding the above parameters? Mine is, and if I had my timing set up according to the factory, then I could add about 7 degrees to the timing numbers above. I think we should get down to the numbers and we will all see if there is a problem and what might be factors creating this real or fictitious pinging issue. Thanks | ||
| Steveford |
My Ulysses has a race kit on it and has pinged twice under heavy load. I suspect it's crummy gas. Other than that, no pinging. Timing set just where Buell says to. I've had the same results with stock XBs using the factory timing specs. | ||
| 44mag2 |
If it is bad gas, it means that all the gas I have tried in all areas of Oregon is bad. Note, I go to stations where it is posted that ethanol is ONLY added from November to Feb. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Note, I have used the best gas available (Chevron, 92 octane) with NOS octane booster, and it still pinged. Note the ping was greatly reduced with the octane booster. |
