| Author | Message | ||
     Father_torque |
Ok here is what happened: When thru my usual routine to start the bike, advance the idle a little, pull out the choke and cranker over, started up just fine, but I pushed the choke back in a little to quick and it sputtered and died, went to restart it and it backfired out the card pretty loud, now it starts and idles fine but has absolutely no power, just wants to stall when starting out in 1st gear. I pulled the carb off and cleaned it up and checked it out all looked ok, I am stumped my best guess is intake manifold gaskets... Bike is a 2002 M2L, supertrapp exhaust, race ecm, dynojet stage 7 jet kit with thunder slide, bike was running perfect before it popped out the carb... I am I going the right way with the intake manifold gaskets??? I tried to get the manifold off but it broke 2 of my Allen keys... Help please... Thanks Paul | ||
| Oldog |
check timing? as engine stalls it snaps backward and jars the timing cup off of time [ best guess ] damaged seals as you suspect other guess assuming carb IS ok and a passage is not blocked. | ||
| Father_torque |
Carb seems to be ok, I checked thru all the passages and they all seemed ok, bike only has 5800KM and only bout 600KM since major service and all the performance parts were installed. Whats the best way to check the timing??? I pulled off the timing cover and the plate with the sensor on it was tight and didn't have seemed to move (no scratched or bolt marks form previous position were obvious) If it is the intake manifold gaskets, will a High temp RTV silicon work to seal them up??? I am in Greece with the bike and parts are a little difficult to get here... | ||
| Firemanjim |
Does bike rev normally sitting there?Dies when you try to leave in gear?Sidestand switch?? Need more data. | ||
| Father_torque |
Bike revs up slowly, like its hesitating. The side stand switch has been bypassed due to a previous problem. Its not that the bike tries to die when leaving, it just has only a quarter of the power it used to and requires rolling on the throttle considerably before releasing the clutch or it will stall. It also has a sporatic idle, it will idle a normally, then all of a sudden surge up several hundred RPM for a few seconds then stutter and drop down to a normal idle again. And the sound of the exhaust is noticebly different, has a tinny sound to it. What other info should I list??? thanks much Paul | ||
| Akbuell |
The surging idle is a classic symptom of an intake leak. Try a quick spray of WD-40 on the intake seals while idling. Messy, but if they leak, the cloud of smoke will prove it. Good luck. BTW, the hi-temp silicon may work, as a temp fix, but could be hard to get a seal in that area. | ||
| Joesbuell |
My intake seals went and had the same symtoms. from cold start you bike and just lightly touch the exhaust headers or with a damp cloth. You will instantly tell which seal is leaking as the side with the leaks header will be colder than the one that is not! | ||
| Whodom |
I'll bet the bike physically blew one of the intake seals out of position when it backfired. You may just have to disassemble the intake, re-seat the seals and reinstall. A light coating of RTV silicone certainly couldn't hurt if you have to reuse what you have. Somebody posted here that the easiest way to get the bolts out of the intake is to cut a "stub" from your allen wrench and turn that with a small combination wrench. Might be worth a try. | ||
| Father_torque |
ok I already had the carb off for the second time when starting this thread, so I cant do the running tests to determine the intake leak, I got 3 off the intake manifold bolts off, but broke both my allen keys and 1/4 combination wrench trying to get the last one, going to try to track down a decent set of allen keys and a 1/4 wrench tomorrow, I am hoping its just an unseated seal, so I will reassemble with some RTV and see what happens. And see if I can get a friend back home to mail me a couple sets of intake manifold gaskets just to be safe... thanks for the advice... if there maybe anything else I missed please let me know where to look. | ||
| Griff |
Silly question but have you pulled the plugs? | ||
| Father_torque |
yep pulled both of them out and they both looked ok, a little sooty but nothing serious, I think thats to be expected with the jet kit, and they only have about 200KM on them. Gonna try patching up the manifold gaskets and see what happens. If it still has the problem I will put in a new set. Dont want to try everything at once cause then I wont know what was actually wrong. Anybody got recommendations for good plugs??? I have a set of the OEM ones, but would a set of Bosch platinums be an improvement??? if so what part number should I use??? | ||
| Oldog |
FT If the Timing has moved it would be the cup. [ POSSIBLY ] the "plate" would not move. VOM on the sensor output connector. Several site the manifold leak as a culprit from experience. Whodoms explanation makes worlds of sense. good luck.. (Message edited by oldog on September 17, 2006) | ||
| Firemanjim |
Not sure on your bike,but my Buells have the rear bolt holes on manifold slotted so you only have to loosen those bolts to slip the manifold out. Timing cup will not "slip" it may break,but that will mean a total loss of spark.Done that 3 times now. Might as well check to make sure both plugs are firing and you have good compression in both holes. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Oh,and its much easier to get to the bolts with the gas tank and top mount moved out of the way.Don't know if you have already done that. | ||
| Father_torque |
ok managed to locate some imperial tools here and got the intake manifold off. the seals seemed to be in the right position but what I did notice that looking at the seals when installed on the manifold along the edge of the gasket were it contacts the manifold it appears as if the gasket has been slightly "chewed up or cracked" for lack of a better description. the actual sealing surfaces appear to be ok. I had an old FLT that the intake was entirely sealed with RTV, should I try and reuse these with a healthy application of RTV or bite the bullet and wait 2 weeks for a set to get sent to me??? (Message edited by Father_Torque on September 18, 2006) | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Get new seals, they are cheap. Also get the one for the carb spigot. Once you remove old ones, they will leak if you use them again. | ||
| Father_torque |
whoohoo, my baby has her fire back!!! so it appears that it was a dislodged/damaged intake manifold gasket, I got it all put back together with a liberal application of high temp RTV silicon and let it cure overnight. Fired it up this morning and after letting it warm up thoroughly took it for a boot, seems to be back to its good old self... the question is how long will it last, at least I have ordered the set of new gaskets, but cleaning up the silicon is going to be the fun part... Thanks to everyone for you help... cheers Paul | ||
| Whodom |
Paul, Glad it turned out to be an easy fix. At least you now know what the symptoms are so if your RTV fix doesn't hold you'll know what's happened. | ||
| Captainkirk |
RTV silicone turns to jelly in the presence of gasoline. Try it sometime. Place a blob of cured RTV in gasoline and watch what happens....... Replace it as soon as feasible | ||
| Whodom |
Captainkirk, That is true, and you sure don't want to use RTV for any kind of gasket that's immersed in gasoline (carburetor, fuel petcock, etc.), but I think it would be OK for an intake manifold. I think he'll be OK at least until he can get his new gaskets. | ||
| Father_torque |
Thanks kirk thats good to know, I have got 2 sets of gaskets on the way, but they are gonna take a week or 2 to get here, so I will change them out once I get them. Although the silicon seemed to seal it up it still feels a little down on power compared to before, so I suspected that it might still have a small leak. I am going to keep checking the plugs after every ride just to make sure it isnt running lean or anything. Can anybody confirm this part number as being the correct one #26995-86B and does it include all three of the gaskets, just want to make sure before I get them thrown in the mail. cheers paul | ||
| Captainkirk |
I'm sure you'll be OK until you get the gaskets, I just wouldn't leave it permanent! |
