| Author |
Message |
    
Alexfiggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:36 pm: | 
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this is what bellray oil sent me....
We recommend using Bel-Ray EXP Semi-synthetic Motor Oil 20W-50 for the engine and Bel-Ray Gear Saver Motorcycle Transmission Oil 85W in the tranny. This will give increased performance and reliability over the H-D labeled product.
Sir Tech |
Navygunner
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:48 pm: |
|
I contacted Redline oil about this topic and they still recommend 75/90 gear oil. They did admit that they do use sulpher as an additive in their gear oil, but have not heard of any stator failures related to there oils in any HD or Buell product. I guess I will have to wait and see. I will continue to use it until a problem occurs.
Patrick |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:49 pm: |
|
Does Mobil 1 contain more of a certain substance than other oils? Is there an oil testing chart that shows this?
Don't get the wrong impression here; nobody is blaming Mobil 1 oil in general. These failures are specifically related to the use of Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil (GL-5 rated) in the primary/transmission. Neither Buell NOR Mobil recommends this lubricant for this application. Somebody tried it, found it improved the shifting, and the word spread. Now it looks like there is a downside to using this lubricant in the primary.
Buell recommends Sport Trans, Syn 3, or most recently Formula+.
Mobil recommends Mobil 1 10W-40 MTX synthetic motorcycle oil. I don't know of anyone here who's using it, but it would be interesting to see how it works out. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:05 pm: |
|
If i'm not wrong, is it not the Mobil 1 gear lube that may be causing the problem, not Mobil 1 engine oil.
I use Harley Syn 3 in the transmission and I top off with Mobil 1 15W50.
Does anyone think this may be a problem?
(Message edited by old man on September 06, 2006)
Just a little help from a friend. :}
(Message edited by Blake on September 07, 2006) |
Jcbikes
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:11 pm: |
|
"How many bikes have had bad stators with other oils besides Mobil 1?" Not hearing any so far. Any out there using other brands of 80-90 GL5 rated with stator problems? |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
|
Red Line told me that I could use either the 20W-50 oil or the gear oil.
I opted for the motor oil. Shifts like a dream. |
Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:58 pm: |
|
Here's my thought, and I'm playing devil's advocate here so don't roast me alive...
As stated in a previous post, Mobil 1 Gear Oil became very popular on the advice of one or more people. And possibly as a result many more people started using it. So IF a large percentage of Buellers are running ,or have run, Mobil 1 75W90 in their transmissions, a poll requesting anecdotal evidence of stator failures is statistically worthless and may just as well point more towards a weakness in stator design than any prospective corrosive effects of a mythical or real sulfuric compound.
(Message edited by johnnylunchbox on September 06, 2006) |
Xb9
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 09:16 pm: |
|
I guess everyone needs to ask themselves - Why not play it safe and just use the Formula + oil for the primary/trans? There's nothing wrong with it, it works fine (it's the best oil I've tried), it isn't expensive and it will not be an issue if your bike has a problem and is still under warranty. I'm not advocating Harley's oils here by any means, but it just seems like the logical solution. Why open a can of oily worms! |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 09:18 pm: |
|
"Any high mileage Mobil-1 gear lube bikes out there still with original stators?"
Does over 30K on my 1999 M2 count? I hope I don't eat my words but for now I'm still staying with the M1 Gear Oil in my XB, so I guess I'll be your test case unless I get cold feet.
With my young daughter I don't put on the high mileage like I used too, but maybe after she starts school in a year or so, I can get more saddle time in again.
P.S I rank AMSOIL research claims with all other snake oil salesmen, pure hype, IMO.
(Message edited by CURTYD on September 06, 2006) |
Kevinfromwebb
| | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 11:45 pm: |
|
One other comment: like I posted before, stator burn outs at 13.5 and 24.5K miles. Been using the M1 Gear Lube since a few hundred miles. After I got back from the Brag ride up in Colorado last year I changed the fluids and the tranny fluid had gotten some water in it... That was last August, I wonder if that contributed to my last stator burn out???
Kevin |
Red_chili
| | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 08:48 am: |
|
As far as my experience in other applications, Mobil1 pretty much sucks in trannies. The reason isn't because it isn't good - it's too good in one respect at least. Too slippery, means the synchros don't grab as well. It really shows up in Toyota truck trannies. RedLine MT90, or just their gear oils (with the NS suffix, which according to the RedLine tech I spoke with means Non Slippery) shifts infinitely better.
Mobil1 is just fine for hypoid applications, such as the rear drive of a BMW, and the sulphur content actually helps there where sliding high pressure ring-n-pinion forces reign. But with an electrical charge in copper in the presence of sulphur, I'm thinking you get cupric sulphate gradually replacing the copper.
It's not an inferior design if you design it for specific sulphur-free lubricants. Formula+ or H-D synthetic is going in my primary. YMMV. |
Ragnagwar
| | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
|
I have been using the Redline MT-90 in my primary and I like it a lot. Smooth shifts and no clutch issues.(From the label) "MT-90 is recommended for all manual transmissions and front-wheel drive manual transaxles which recommend motor oils, or GL1,GL3 or GL4 gear oils". "Most GL-5 gear oils contain reactive sulfur which can chemically wear synchros and shorten synchro life by 50%". We'll see what happens long term. " No connection to Red Line corp." |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 05:46 pm: |
|
Red_chili,
To clarify, Buell transmissions do not include synchros. You are dead on right that GL-5 lubricants should not be used in any transmission that uses synchromesh. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
|
Just for info, I have used Mobil 1 ATF in a manual transmission in my Ford Ranger (which required ATF) and had no problems in 187,000 miles. Used Mobil 1 gear oil in the rear end. The yoke seal went out ~10,000 miles later but after it was replaced (at ~30,000 miles) I had no further problems. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
|
I was using Redline Ultra Heavy Shockproof when my stator went out (~30K miles). There was green gunk all throughout the windings. I switched to Sportrans, then to Redline 20W50 or Mobil 15W50 when HD came out with their syn and said it was OK to use in the primary. I've probably got 10K on the stator now. |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 01:17 pm: |
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I searched and could not find it......I remember someone said that one of the name brand oil was eating stators.....anyone know the brand? |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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redline shockproof |
Xring
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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I thought somebody stated that Mobil 1 80/90 did too?
Bill |
Greenlantern
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
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I remember Mobil 1 also but think It was 20/50 synth.Cant find thread now. |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
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I cant find the tread either....... |
Bigj
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 02:24 pm: |
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It is almost a given that a GL-5 oil with its' extreme pressure additives(read: sulfur) is what's doing it. Stay away from them. I would run the recommended manufacturer oil, if you aren't sure what you're doing. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
|
The claim was that Mobil-1 75W90 Synthetic Gear Lube was a risk to corroding the stator. Thing is, the stator presents no exposed copper inside the primary case. As has been offered before, if it did, the stator would short out, if not in the oil, then in the presence of any moisture.
That said, it seems that a lot of folks have experienced stator failures who were also using the Mobil-1 75W90 Synthetic gear lube. Not sure how many have experienced stator failures while using a non-GL5 gear lube or motor oil. Maybe time for a survey? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
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Maybe so... Using M1 75-90 and had a stator failure at 25K miles. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:51 pm: |
|
Mark me down for a stator failure using Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil (after ~15,000 miles). Changed the one in my S3 over the weekend. The visually obvious thing was that the "blob" of potting material over the place where the leads to the voltage regulator are crimped to the stator windings was completely deteriorated. As soon as I flexed one of the wires just slightly it broke off at the crimped connection.
It may be that the oil attacks the potting material which eventually allows a mechanical failure of the electrical connections.
BTW, I switched to Formula + and so far the shifting seems to be as good if not better.
(Message edited by whodom on August 30, 2006) |
Gramps
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:52 pm: |
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Mobil 1 Gear Lube 75/90 had a stator failure 23k miles on 98 S1W |
Rsh
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 05:34 pm: |
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Add me to the list, xb9r using mobil 1 75/90 had a stator failure @ 28k. |
Jessicasdad
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 05:55 pm: |
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well I am not 100% sure of failure .. but I am using M1 as well and hitting the 27K mark .. will know more after this weekend |
Dave
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 07:36 pm: |
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Redline - red sludge
Mobile 1 - no sludge but eats stators. (My experience on my S3 with 45k miles)
DAve |
Chico33
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 08:47 pm: |
|
Bought a 99 M2 new and used Mobil-1 75/90 gear lube since new, replaced two stators,sold it to a friend at 36k miles and helped him replace stator at 40k miles and filled it with Mobil-1 75/90. Called him and told him to change to engine oil. |
Steveford
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 09:06 pm: |
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26 or 27,000 miles and the stator on my S3 failed with Mobil 75/90 in there.
I've since switched over to Formula+. |
Tomd
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
|
Hi All,
No stator issues as of yet. 21K on Amsoil 20-50.
The failures with the EP type gear lubes don't surprise me. Friend of mine has a degree in metallurgy said that sulfur is corrosive to copper. I have a 92 Dodge Diesel and the fuel gauge stopped working after about a year and a half. Pulled it out and the contacts were almost gone from corrosion. Diesel fuel contained a lot of sulfur before '95. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 02:30 am: |
|
Mine cratered at around 27K miles. I guess I started using Mobil-1 75W90 at around 15K or so.
Skully (Keith of Dark Horse Motor) had one go at around 20K I think, Mobil-1 75W90.
So far no reports of stator failures with other than Mobil-1 75W90?
Okay, I may be convinced.
Tomd,
The thing is that Mobil-1 says that the stuff is not corrosive to yellow metals. Different types of sulfur compounds, some active some not. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 05:42 am: |
|
The thing is that Mobil-1 says that the stuff is not corrosive to yellow metals. Different types of sulfur compounds, some active some not.
Blake,
Where have you seen that stated? I just checked their product data sheet at:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Synthetic_Gear_Lubr icant_LS_75W-90.asp
The main relevant statement I see is: "Not recommended for automatic, manual or semiautomatic transmissions for which engine oil or automatic transmission fluids are recommended." |
Typeone
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:10 pm: |
|
ah, finally this topic comes back to light... i stopped using M1 75W90 (switched to 15W50) after reading that old thread. this thread now completely convinces me to stay away from it.
but i think i need to just switch to Amsoil for both my bikes and rest easy. |
Blasterd
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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So what is everyone using now? |
Tomd
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Blake,
They may mean the brass or bronze (I can't remember which metal they are) blocker rings on manual transmission syncronizers.
Wouldn't either one of these be more resistant to corrosion than the soft copper in a stator?
Tom |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
|
Ditto on the Redline. The Shockproof Light deposited green goop on the coils causing the '98 S3 stator to overheat and short out. It may be good in a separate tranny but not in the primary with a stator. |
Skyguy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:20 pm: |
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@#%@#$%#@$% I had switched to Mobil one last change out (3,000 miles ago)................... Gee wonder if that is why my stator failed................
Sonofa |
Xring
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:25 pm: |
|
I believe I'll change out my Mobil 1 gear oil and put in Mobil 1 20/50 engine oil. Not at the service interval yet, but did ride in a couple of heavy rains, and have had some water in the primary before.
Plus that way I'll have the same oil in the engine and primary. One less thing to stock in the shop.
Bill |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
|
Stator gone at 19K, M1 75W90 Synth.
The stator that I received in replacement does indeed have exposed copper. At best there was a very thin, transparent veneer over the connection points of wires to coil. Those things should be encased in solid silicone. |
Sjh
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
|
I read this thread the last time it was posted and decided to use the same oil in the trans and engine. I have found mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 works very well, plus you only have to carry one bottle on long trips for emergencies. The bottle also notes that it is developed for engines and primaries. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:04 pm: |
|
I switched to Formula + when I replaced my stator last weekend. I also replaced my shifter shaft (the splines were slightly hosed up on mine) and that had to be adjusted by the manual after installation.
I don't know if it was the lube or the adjustment or both, but my trans shifts incredibly easily now. It is a HUGE improvement over how it shifted before the change. Neutral is incredibly easy to find every time and shifting effort (which wasn't bad before) seems like half of what it was before the switch. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:05 pm: |
|
Ditto the Shockproof Light deposited green goop on the coils ...
Ditto the Heavy:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=47623&post=728687#POS T728687
Henrik |
Mdm
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
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whats wrong with SYN3 ? |
Gowindward
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Knock on wood...28,500+ miles and no stator problems. I've been using Mobil 1 15/50 since first oil change until 25K when I switch to Formula + after hearing the engineers at Homecoming praise it giving long clutch life on all model years. Plus they recommend 10K service interval with it's use. |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
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This is on Amsoil's website, so while I take it with a grain of salt- I do not know how they would fake the results unless they are out and out lying. These tests are basically the same as the ones Sport Rider used in an article as well and seem to represent industry stds.
I've never heard a bad word about Amsoil products, but I find it impressive that M1 v-twin 20/50 came in 2nd - Syn3 came in 6th.
I use the M1 v-twin as it is the highest rated that is readily available.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf#search=%22amsoil%20a%20study%20of%20motorcyc le%20oils%22} |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:38 pm: |
|
Whodom,
Fourth row down in the "Features" listing table...
quote:Excellent rust, staining and corrosion protection of copper and its alloys
The emphasis being mine. Either they are lying or the stator failures are attributable to something else.
Darthane,
Yes, film of varnish, check. Same protection provided to the wire wrappings, no?
Can anyone explain how the stator could be expected to continue to operate with exposed voltage-carrying (30+V) conductor in the hostile, sometimes moisture-laden and metal particle-laden primary chaincase environment? Am I missing something?
We need to post a full blown survey on this issue. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
|
The emphasis being mine. Either they are lying or the stator failures are attributable to something else.
I completely missed that; thanks for pointing it out.
Then my scenario may prove out- something in the oil attacks the plastic potting material that covers the stator winding/output leads junctions which leads to mechanical failure of the connection. Another possibility would be that the oil attacks the varnish on the stator windings eventually leading to a short within the stator winding or directly to ground. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
|
Mobil 75w90 since new... stator failure at 28k miles.
I had some old HD oil left over from years ago and used that after I installed the new stator. Don't think I'm using 75w90 Mobil again, but I'm not convinced it's causing the failures.
Do Sportsters have stator failures like Buells do? |
Xring
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 05:21 pm: |
|
Do Sportsters have stator failures like Buells do?
No, man, they have chromed stators! :-) |
Buellerx
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 06:28 pm: |
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Add me to the list, xb12r using mobil 1 75/90 had a stator failure @ 20 something thousand. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 07:20 pm: |
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Well of course the other question is how many people here have had stator failures while not using Mobil 1 75W-90? |
Tomd
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 07:24 pm: |
|
Hi All,
I had a chance to talk to my friend the metal man again today. He went into further detail on the effects of sulfur on metals.
First: copper or any of it's alloys (brass bronze) will suffer corrosion from sulfur.
Second: the more copper the metal contains the more aggressive the corrosion will be
third: not all sulfurs are the same, all depends on the amount of negative charge in the molecules. The more negative it is, the more aggressive it will be.
fourth: Any moisture in the presence of sulfur will create sulfur dioxide, in effect creating "acid rain" within the cases
fifth: Sulfur has little or no corrosive effect on chromimum and nickel, both used to harden steel for use as gears and bearings.
sixth: sulfur dioxide is very aggressive to zinc and tin used in electrical circuits.
seventh: some oil manufactures use the less aggressive types of sulfur, it will just take a little longer to corrode the copper, it is relentless until all the charges are neturalized.
An interesting note, one company he did work for in the past attempted to lessen the corrosive effects in equipment so they changed the oil change interval to more often and began to have more corrosion issues as they were renewing the sulfur and it was in effect resetting the negative charge of the sulfur.
He went on about the chemistry of the corrosive action but he lost me. I was never that good at chemistry in school so I have a bit of a mental block. He seems very well versed in the effects of sulfur on metals as he has been working on anti corrosion projects for the railroad industry.
If you would like me to ask him any specific just let me know, he's a rider but he "hates those thrice dammed loud harleys"
Tom |
Kevinfromwebb
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:58 pm: |
|
Hmmm, I've been using the Mobil 1 either v-twin or 15/50 in the crankcase and the 75/90 gear lube in the tranny since a few hundred miles... Had stator burn outs at 13.5k and 24.5k... Maybe I'll try the Formula+ next change... It's still got the regular h/d fluid in it from the last stator change... Oh, I usually change both fluids at 3 to 4K miles...
Kevin |
Darthane
| | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darthane,
Yes, film of varnish, check. Same protection provided to the wire wrappings, no?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most definitely NOT the same, or at least not applied in the same thickness. As I said, at the point where the wires connected to the windings, I could not actually SEE any coating, which is painfully obvious on the windings themselves. That is why I said, 'at best' there's a thin, transparent coat.
As to how it could be expect to operate in that environment if it's exposed - for one thing, simple moisture won't cause an immediate short and failure, it would take time. Say...19K miles? 
'Protection against corrosion' is NOT the same thing as 'will not corrode'. I don't care what additives they put in it, the stuff still has sulfides which are corrosive to yellow metals. I will not knowingly put such stuff in my primary again. It shifts just fine with the 20W50 in it - no noticeable difference. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
|
I used to use the M1 gear oil until these stator posts started showing up.
Switched to Red Line 20W-50 and in fact, the shifting actually improved. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:02 am: |
|
I ain't using it anymore either!
Would just like to nail down the issue for sure.
My tuber stator has a big glob of silicon covering up the area you are talking about Darthane. I'm surprised the XB stator doesn't. Hmmmm... |
Cyko_bob
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 06:17 am: |
|
Well, what about the water in the primary...that surely cannot be good, no matter which oil a person is using?
Whodom asked the question...who else has had stator failures NOT using Mobil 1 gear lube. BTW, I have used Mobil 1 15/50 in both the engine and primary...no issues yet...although I have had water in the primary. Now that I am back from overseas, I will start using the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil (20-50).
Any reports on the new primary oil (synthethic) Harley started selling? When protecting our investment I don't mind paying a few more bucks for an oil made just for the primary. We only use one quart per change! |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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Haven't heard about the water in the primary issue? What is that all about? |
2k4xb12
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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Me too -- Mobil 1 75/90, 7,500 miles!!! |
Gentleman_jon
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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Water in the Primary.
I haven't had this problem myself, but if memory serves, the consensus on the board is that water can enter the primary case via the joint in the cable adjuster at the middle of the clutch cable.
The fix is to tape the top of the rubber boot to the cable itself to make a more waterproof join.
If anyone has more info, please chime in.
PS. Just to get back on the topic for a second, I just ordered some Formula + from Daves.
It just seems statistically abnormal that we have not heard from anyone that has had a stator failure that was using anything but Mobil One.
(Message edited by gentleman_jon on September 03, 2006) |
Kevinfromwebb
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 08:59 pm: |
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Cyko bob, are you talking about the formula+ ??? I believe it's the newer primary only fluid. I believe it's the fluid that came out the same time as the Uly's and the softer clutch springs. I don't believe it's synth, might be a mix though, anybody know for sure???
Kevin |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 07:06 pm: |
|
Air contains moisture. At night that moisture often will condense on a cool surface. In that way, moisture can accumulate inside the primary/transmission due to simple condensation. For motorcycles that are often ridden for short distances where the transmission lubricant doesn't get hot enough to evaporate condensation, it can eventually accumulate to a surprising amount. In humid environs like East Texas, this is a serious issue of which folks should be aware.
Riding in heavy rain can also lead to some moisture making its way into the primary via the clutch cable; pull the clutch; water gets on the cable; let out the clutch; where's it go? |
Jasonxb12s
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 07:20 pm: |
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M1 75/90 stator fry at 10K miles. I still use the oil and now have 14K miles. |
Cyko_bob
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
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Kevinfromweb...Yes that is it...Formula +
I thought it was syn, but guess not. I just checked the H-D page, and it does not indicate it is synthetic.
As for the water in the primary, yes it comes in through the clutch adjustment on the cable. If you look right behind the front fender, that is where the front tire/fender throws the water. After I found water in the primary, I pulled back the rubber boot on the cable adjustment, and water poured out of it...some had trickled down the clutch cable, evidently. That was about at about the 5K mark. By 10K my clutch felt pretty stiff...replaced the cable at that time, not only because of stiffness, but other Buellers had indicated clutch cable failure...roughly around 10K...varies of course. Bottom line, clutch felt a lot better with the cable change. And yes, I now put a wire tie on the top and bottom of the boot on the clutch cable adjuster. That has prevented water from getting into the cable and primary since I first discovered it. The water in the primary was a shocker when I first saw it...when I drained the primary. Fortunately, I change the primary and engine oil every 2500 miles, so I did not go very many miles with water in the primary (and transmission)! It is so easy to change the primary, and it is just a quart (plus I check the primary chain then too), why not do it every oil change!!! Just protecting an envestment! Besides, maybe that will help prolong the stator too!
Cyko Bob |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
|
Thanks for the information. I have literally never ridden in the rain (we don't have rain here in San Diego) so I have never seen anything in my waste oil that would lead me to believe this is an issue.
Thanks again. |
Jkhawaii
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 01:02 pm: |
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from photos of the stator I feel it is just a bad design.
there is far to much epoxy around those 3 or 4 bobins witch likely causes them to over heat |
Xb9
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 02:12 pm: |
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I'm 99% sure it says on the Formula + bottle it's made from mineral oil base stock....I've been using it since it came out and love it in both my race bike and street bike. And at 6.95/qt. it's not like it's more expensive than what you are already using (in most cases).
I've got over 42,000 '03 XB Buell miles (two engines), never used a gear lube oil in the primary/trans, and have never had a stator failure.
Over the years I've used Sporttrans, Royal Purple 20W50, Syn3 and Formula + only. I like the Formula + the best, shifts like butter.
(Message edited by xb9 on September 05, 2006)
(Message edited by xb9 on September 05, 2006) |
Whodom
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
|
I took my S3 for its first long ride ~70 miles since changing to Formula+ yesterday, and I agree, it actually shifts noticeably better than the Mobil 1 75W-90.
After my ride on Monday, I went ahead and changed the primary lube again with fresh Formula+ so hopefully all the residual gear oil is gone now and this stator will last at least as long as the rest of the engine. An added benefit is the Formula+ doesn't smell nearly as bad as fresh Mobil 1 75W=90. It smells like fresh roses compared to stator-burned Mobil 1!!!
(Message edited by whodom on September 05, 2006) |
Bud
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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two stators.
about the same km's on theme
running all kinds off different oils
red line heavy duty ( clutch problems after a wile , goo building up between the diafr. spring and presure table )
red line light ( same clutch problems only it takes a little longer )
hd transfluid,
mpm gear oil GL5 ( lokal suff came cheap )
now running redline synth. gear oil
never ever had shifting problems, it's smooth as a baby's bottom
only the stator failure keeps bugging me
but i must say, i think there was a running change in xb stator's,
the second one who got toasted, was the same as the first one,
the last one i got had better insulation and separation on the 3 output wires
not gooed to getter, but with proper plastic wire seperators en guides
could be a oil thing,
but they did change the stators |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
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Good info everyone. 
Any high mileage Mobil-1 gear lube bikes out there still with original stators? |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:53 am: |
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You know... the shift forks look like they are made out of bronze. I didn't notice any corrosion on my shift forks from Mobil 70w90. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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You know... the shift forks look like they are made out of bronze. I didn't notice any corrosion on my shift forks from Mobil 70w90.
I noticed that on my bike too and saw no evidence of corrosion there. That seems to point to breakdown of the insulation material (varnish) or potting material as the culprit. A secondary possibility would be that the potting breaks down which allows the oil to get to the solder joints that connect the leads to the stator windings and corrode those.
(Message edited by whodom on September 06, 2006) |
Prof_stack
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:15 pm: |
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Okay, so Mobil-1 gear oil is apparently bad. What about gear oil from other makers, like Amsoil or Valvoline? Do they have "friction modifiers" or other stuff that is bad for stators? |
Jiffy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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No the real question is this.
How many bikes have had bad stators with other oils besides Mobil 1?
Maybe Mobil 1 is so popular it is inevitable that we believe that it is causing the problem. Maybe the problem is just a basic design flaw.
So many riders and drivers use Mobil 1 it is hard to say that is causing a problem.
Has anyone gotten their oil tested and seen the exact amounts of different additives and such that exist?
Does Mobil 1 contain more of a certain substance than other oils? Is there an oil testing chart that shows this? |
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