| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketsprink |
I noticed on the Uly thread a lot of discussion of their bikes running hot, bad pinging, fans running non stop while riding, engines shutting off while riding. Anyone here with a 12S or SS having any of these issues? All on the 2006 models. It's the same engine if I'm not mistaken. Wonder what the deal is!?? | ||
| Alcino |
I have a "04 12s with race kit muffler and computer. Fan does come on a lot, even on the freeway when it should have plenty of air to cool, but not non stop. Never has shut off on me while riding. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I have a 04 as well and not an issue. Only on the 06 models. Being that's the first year of the Uly, which in itself could be a reason. Anyone have an idea? | ||
| Robertoxb9 |
Just put a right airscoop on the Buell and the issue is over..  | ||
| Rocketsprink |
That's been done with mixed results. What I'm trying to figure out is if it's a Uly specific problem or a problem across the board with the 1203 motor. The 2007's have upgraded the oil pump, TPS and some other items. I would assume to rectify the problems. Just wondering if S, SS or R owners of 2006's have had any issues. | ||
| Jcbikes |
My xb12s 04 runs fine. Nothing abnormal with the fan. on short rides it does not even come on sometimes. | ||
| Vaneo1 |
2006 12R here, and I have the described issues. Its been posted a lot here about pinging, and heat. Someone mentione retard the timing and it should fix the problem. I know these syptoms only come around when its super hot out 85 degrees and up. | ||
| Davo |
Vaneo1, I have discovered what I believe to be a significant timing disparity on my Uly. The map, static and dynamic timing are not even in the same zip code. Many have argued this is not the case. To my knowledge, nobody to this date, other than myself has put a variable light on the bike and compared the numbers to the lap top (VDSTS). The disparity lies in the VDSTS system or the Buell initial set up vs. dynamic reading as it should correspond to their map. I do not think this is prevalent in the xb's or there would be a lot of kicking and screaming going on during this last heat wave. The issue may be related to upgraded emission requirements for later models but that is pure speculation. | ||
| Blake |
I think a lot of what you assume may be "speculation." How can you be certain that ECM mapping numbers as reported by VDSTS should correspond to timing light dynamic readings? How can you even be sure that the dynamic timing light readings should match the ECM mapping values? Is it possible that there is an offset between the actual mechanical timing and the sensor activation position? How far off are your two different values? Are you sure there is only one level of ignition timing mapping in the ECM? | ||
| Diablobrian |
I think that there is something odd going on with the Uly's. There are a lot of 03 xb9's and 04 XB12's still using their stock fan after many many miles. I haven't seen any reports of fans going bad other than on Uly's. How are the fans holding up on SS's? The Uly and the SS share most functional components and I haven't heard of fan failures on them. | ||
| Davo |
Blake, I speculate that you are speculating about my speculation. So I will try to be less speculative. ( just funnin) “How can you be certain that ECM mapping numbers as reported by VDSTS should correspond to timing light dynamic readings?” I can’t be certain of the accuracy of VDSTS, but if the numbers are accurate isn’t that the purpose of the whole map thing? If the VDSTS numbers are correct and they represent the guidance of the map and the intentions map maker then what should they correspond to? The numbers on VDSTS do correspond to the numbers on the stock map. “How can you even be sure that the dynamic timing light readings should match the ECM mapping values?” The ECM is programmed in order to perform numerous complex changes in engine spark timing and fuel delivery parameters which used to be performed by mechanical devices such as springs and centrifugal weights for spark timing and carburetors for fuel delivery. If the observations of dynamic readings did not match the mapping data there should at least be a formula that might answer for the disparity. I again speculated that there might be a linear error which would answer your next question, but I was wrong. After my observations, I was not able to determine exactly what the disparity was across the rpm spectrum at full operating temperature. I would assume that the map in the ECM should match what is actually going on in the engine. The light is my window to what is actually going on in the engine. I can only be certain that it seems reasonable to me that the ECM attached to my bike should have a map with numbers that pertain to that same bike and therefore the numbers should correspond in some way. “Is it possible that there is an offset between the actual mechanical timing and the sensor activation position?” It is more than possible; it is probable if the spark timing numbers are more or less than zero at any time. As for if it was engineered that way, to have some kind of built in offset, I can once again only speculate that it is not logical to me as to why someone would do such a thing when they have the flexibility, speed and accuracy of a more than capable ECM to do the offsetting for them. The only logic might be to keep the keys to their kingdom safe or to meet last minute regulations. Maybe the engineer knew that the CPS wasn't at a fixed location so they could arbitrarily dial it in later and only confuse one guy in Southside VA. “How far off are your two different values?” 7.5 to 9 degrees at idle at full operating temperature. My speculative disparity is that the factory setting is 7.5 – 9 degrees more advanced than dynamic timing matching VDSTS numbers and then comparing them to map numbers. "Are you sure there is only one level of ignition timing mapping in the ECM?" No, I know there are different levels. One of the different levels pertains to ET that is why I have always checked the numbers at many different operating temperatures. My final readings where stable at normal operating temperature for my bike (380-405F). Thanks for the questions. I might be totally wrong but my bike is no longer pinging it's tail off , I am getting great performance , and my highway MPG is in the high 50s-sometimes 60. Plugs look great too! | ||
| Blake |
So there is no problem then?  | ||
| Swordsman |
Diablo, the fan on my Ss just got replaced... went nuts after 6 months. Never died altogether, but speed became random and would at times die down to a mere clicking. Usually happened with longer rides. I think it had something to do with the bearings... perhaps expanding too much from the heat and creating too much resistance to turn. Stone Mountain replaced it for me. However, despite the fact the speed was erratic, it never overheated on me on my 30 minute commute, and we've had some temps of over 100. ~SM | ||
| Davo |
The problem is that there are many other Uly owners that are continuing to have issues with pinging. I have received numerous emails from individuals that have not been able to get their new motorcycles fixed by the dealers from which they were purchased. The big three topics on the Uly board this summer have been fuel additives, pinging, and fan issues. There is a common denominator.......heat and pre-ignition due to excessive spark timing relative to compression ratio, fuel availability and a 14.7 to 1 AFV requirement. I think I solved my problem but what about the others? I don't like writing checks that my body can't cash. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
I fell victim to questionable fuel in a small town over the weekend and did experience the above mentions symptoms. I only run sunoco ultra 94 in my bike and it runs cooler and does not ping at all. Best advice my dealer game me on delivery is don't you dare put cheap gas in it.... | ||
| Blake |
"I don't like writing checks that my body can't cash." A little overdramatic don't you think?  Fuel additives? Don't need 'em if the fuel is okay. Pinging? Intake leak, TPS, lugging the engine, or timing advanced too far. Fan issues? What fan issues? | ||
| Merlyn |
I'll toss my hat in, why not... I'm on an 06 12R, and I haven't had any pinging or serious heat problems as yet. My last decent ride before my current tire problem was 200 miles at 100+ almost none of that on the highway. Only heat issue I have had at any temp is the seat and especially the passenger seat getting hot. I can't carry a passenger for more than 30 miles- so I am taking the passenger pegs off as a fix :: grin :: (that's a joke, in case anyone is offended) I've been sort of following the fan posts on the Uly area, just because I am considering a right side scoop, and it occurs to me that if the fan problems are more or less specific to the 12X, there may be a slight variance in the body design, airflow or clearances on that model, which are subjecting the fan to more heat, causing failures. I could be completely off base, but that's my uninformed lazy theory. Merlyn -Too short to ride an XB12X anyway... | ||
| Cadhopper |
I have about 750 miles on my XB12Ss and I would say I don't think the fan ever shuts off. I rode in this morning on I-95 at about 70-80 mph and it was only 65 degrees but after taking the exit and slowing down for a stop light the fan was running. I figured it was normal for it to run all the time, maybe I'll look into the right side air scope. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
CAD during break in my fan almost never shut down. I have added the right side scoop and wrapped the exhaust. The only time my fan runs is on shutdown and if I am in really slow moving traffic. | ||
| Garp |
I did about 600 miles on my stock 04 12R this weekend, and for about the last 150 miles the fan was running constantly. Temperatures were dropping, and at times it was raining, but the fan just kept going. On shorter rides I have never had a problem. She is overdue for a TPS reset, so that may be part of the issue. I bought the technoresearch setup, but seem to have a bad cable, so I need to get around to returning it  | ||
| Bosezone |
I was talking about the fan failures to a Buell engineering employee over the weekend and he said the fan failures are across the board XB problems, not isolated to the Uly's. I said it sure sounded like a Uly problem and not all XB's and he assured me it is across the board and is more prevalent in the recently manufactured fans from their supplier. | ||
| Lorazepam |
I tend to take a lot of rides that last 6-10 hours. A few of these have been in the rain. I find that my fan runs almost all the time, even after replacement. I also discovered that the fan would run normally until it heated up, as in run for an hour or so. I had to have the tech listen to the fan after shutoff when I got to the dealership before they would replace it. When the tech tested it cold, it sounded normal. I wish Buell techs had to read this board. They could get some great tips from the members, and also get information that a customer may not be able to communicate as well as here. I have made my living for the last 15 years troubleshooting equipment ranging from dry ice blasting equipment, to medical devices and lab equipment. Listening to the customer, and following up with questions makes repairs go much easier. Knowing there are common problems is tough when a tech might see only 5 XB's a month. | ||
| Sgthigg |
Mine runs all the time now here in S MS. I did a 450 miler this weekend. It ran for all of 440 miles of it. My bike does not ping. Nor has it "overheated" | ||
| Hammeroid |
robertoxb9, Where did you get the right side air scoop??? | ||
| Jaimec |
I have an '06 XB12Ss with a little over 7,000 miles now. In hot weather the fan pretty much stays on all the time. The past few days, with temperatures in the low eighties and on the highway the fan would come on for a few minutes, and then shut off. I've ridden in temperatures in the high 90's and in bumper-to-bumper traffic and although the fan does come on and stay on, I've never detected any pinging or detonation from the engine. I only have the left side airscoop by the way (though it is now carbon fiber, that doesn't affect the airflow). I usually use Amoco Premium though in a pinch I'll use pretty much whatever premium grade is available. I've also gotten into the habit of adding a "squirt" of DurAlt to my tank at every fill up (started doing that with my first airhead BMW, and it does seem to make a difference). Maybe that's the missing ingredient? FWIW, Harley Davidson sells a "V-Twin Fuel Additive" at their dealerships that contains DurAlt. I just buy the plain DurAlt from my local BMW dealer instead. DurAlt is NOT a BMW product, it is manufactured and sold by the Polar Molecular Corporation. | ||
| Humblebueller |
I have almost 7000 mi on my 06 XB12SS. The fan runs a lot, but I am in Houston Tx. I have had pinging problems a few times. Once when I sat at a light for three cycles before getting through in 95+ deg or stuck in traffic in same said heat. The pinging stops after I get moving again. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Hammeroid.....Trojan has the right side scoop, which is where I got mine.....American sport bike has it also. | ||
| Hammeroid |
Thanks, Lost. I appreciate that. | ||
| No_rice |
14,000+ on my green 03 with alot of hard hot riding. original fan. once in awhile it seems to run at some odd times. but other than that it just keeps working. it has had a little bit of a grinding bearing sound a it stops, for probably the last year. still keeps running though and i have given up worrying about it. my other 03 has 7,000 on it and as of yet no trouble with that either. | ||
| Robertoxb9 |
Hammeriod, I produce my own scoop   |
