| Author | Message | ||
     Cacciola |
Hi there folks, I need some feedback from you with some true tecninc facts, I live in brazil, Iv got a 06 xb9sx, running with motul 5100, the bike has been serviced for the first time with 1600 km as the manual says (so oil last Changed there),around 2500km I installed my billet catch can. right now, with 3000 something km the bike started to make a wierd noise, and it was due to low oil level, it was missing 1,5 litre out of 3 from the oil reservoir, the Chief Brazilian technician (they told me he is known worldwide, his name is Marcelo) told me, that oil consumption is caused by the Catch can installation, because when the breather vapours are not rerun into the intake, it generates more pressure inside the crankcase making the engine ingest oil from under the rings. If he is right my bike consumed Half an oil tank in less than 500 km, thats not even 400 miles... Please help me with arguments so I can find out the real problem of my bike an can prove him tha the catch can is not the problem. Thanks!! | ||
| Bosezone |
Not true at all. No way. The breather venting into the intake is for emissions only. and besides, the breather venting into the intake does nothing to effect the pressure on the crankcase side. They are isolated from each other by the piston rings. Besides, whatever volume of gas the breather was venting into the intake will be replaced by fresh air anyhow. And the breather isn't "pumping" pressurized gas into the intake, geeez. Sounds like someone is BS'ing you on this one. Your oil consumption is another problem all together. check for leaks, check your plugs for oil fouling. It might improve as the rings seat and the engine breaks in, but that seems pretty excessive oil consumption to me. | ||
| Sgthigg |
It was probaly given back to you low on oil. A catch can wont do that. | ||
| U4euh |
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| Diablobrian |
The people blaming oil loss on a catch can are full of a brown substance, and it's not oil! (Message edited by diablobrian on August 17, 2006) | ||
| Kccyclone |
how many is in a brazilian????  | ||
| Ctyxrnr |
i have been told that 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles is normal consumption. (per Harley tech's) My CityX consumed nearly 2qt. between oil changes the first 5000 miles. regularly check the oil level i would say around 500 miles. once it gets over 5k miles it will consume alot less. | ||
| Sik_s |
My bike consumes nearly one half a quart every 5000 miles. | ||
| Dragonbuell12r |
I buy oil in 5 quart containers. 2-1/2 for the oil change, 2-1/2 to keep it full thru the next 4-5k miles. It's amazing, it just disappears. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
my bike is going in to the shop on the 21st for blown valve seals or something. it is the second time this has happend. the first time was at 4200 miles and again at 8400 miles. the buell tech told me they had alot of problems with the 05 valve seals on the xb's and the 05 sporty's. he said they have a updated valve seal out now and that is what he is going to put in this time. the first time it happend i used 2 quarts in 800 miles. this time i used 1.5 quarts in 450 miles. but my dealer has been great no hassles. i told them what happend and they asked me when i want to bring it in to get fixed. | ||
| Dragonbuell12r |
Jim, Did they tell you how to check if the seals are leaking?? My warranty is up in September and I would like to get it fixed before time runs out. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
the Chief Brazilian technician (they told me he is known worldwide, his name is Marcelo) told me, that oil consumption is caused by the Catch can installation GREAT!...I just did the home made version of the catch can. Now i may as well buy a gallon of oil for the rear tail bag i just put on also.  SERIOUSLY! how do these guys get away with blurting out crap like that? JEEZ!!! Must be why I hate dealerships so much...I can't stand the B_S_ they dish out. precision- sheldons..you guys listening? | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
Dragon,i don't think there is any way to really check. just keep a eye on how much oil you are using. when it happend to me the first time. my oil light came on and it went in to skip fire mode. i took it straight to my dealer. witch is only 4 miles from my house. i told them what it was doing. so they checked the oil and it was 2 quarts low. i asked how this could happen and what damage did it just cause? they where not sure at first. so they called BMC they told them to fill it up with oil and mark the dip stick. they told me to come back in 1000 miles to see where it was at. i came back around 850 mile and it was 2 quarts low again. so they kept my bike and replaced the top half of my motor. this time i think i caught it before it did any damage. the new up dated valve seals are orange. the ones that came in the bike are black. i hope this help ya. as far as checking them i have no idea on how to do that. | ||
| Hobanbrothers |
Are you getting oil in your catch can? It depends guys, if that catch can is not vented properly it can cause positive crankcase pressure and lead to other problems. Are you seeing oil slip out the pipe or witness on the spark plugs? It could be how the oil lines are run to the catch can that could cause positive crankcase pressure. I am not a fan of going to synthetics too early in the breakin process, but I believe that 1400KM translates into over 1,000 mi?? Had it synthetic earlier than that? Just trying to help here... | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I can't believe guys are going 4 to 5 thousand miles between oil changes (I know what the manual says). I would and do oil changes much more frequently (about 3 thousand miles). | ||
| Dragonbuell12r |
Why? Synthetic doesn't break down and the filter media has more than enough surface area for that kind of mileage. | ||
| Cacciola |
It's an american sport bike billet catch can, VENTED and the hoses directed straight down, so no way of clogging and building up pressure. Weird... | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I go about 2000-3000 miles per oil changes. I know it is a waist of synthetic oil and all I need to do is clean my filter but it makes me feel better. Maybe i just like tinkering with my bike some days.  | ||
| Damnut |
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| Blake |
Thank you Hobanbrothers! Folks, Bosezones information is inaccurate. "the breather venting into the intake does nothing to effect the pressure on the crankcase side." Yes it does, the venting of the crankcase aka positive crankcase ventilation or "PCV" prevents a buildup of pressure due to blow-by (combustion gasses escaping past the rings into the crankcase) and also the variable volume of the crankcase as the pistons in the single crank-pin V-Twin move up and down, in fairly close unison. The vacuum present in the intake aids in evacuating the crankcase compared to the atmospheric pressure environment of an externally vented breather outlet. "They are isolated from each other by the piston rings."  The crankcase breather system ventilates positive pressure from the crankcase, the enclosed volume below the piston rings. There is no communication between combustion chamber and crankcase ventilation system other than via blow-by past the rings. "Besides, whatever volume of gas the breather was venting into the intake will be replaced by fresh air anyhow." There is no means by which "fresh air" may enter the crankcase. The only gasseous medium present inside the crankcase of a running 4-stroke engine consists of blow-by, the combustion gasses that make it past the rings into the crankcase. Absent a means to escape, blow-by gasses would cause a significant build-up of pressure inside the crankcase. Such a build-up of pressure inside the crankcase will hinder the sealing of the piston rings against teh ring lands on the piston, leading to more blow-by and worse ring sealing and poor performance. "And the breather isn't "pumping" pressurized gas into the intake, geeez." The breather is carrying/venting the pumped blow-by gasses/vapor from the crankcase. The breather is not doing the pumping, the breather is providing the avenue for escape of high pressure gasses inside the crankcase. This is a VITAL system, especially for low throttle operation. At high throttle, the rings are more eager to seal due to the extremely high pressures of combustion. At low throttle openings, the combustion pressure is not so high, thus blow-by is more of a factor and crankcase pressure buildup much more significant in preventing ring sealing against the lower lands of the piston ring groove(s). | ||
| Cacciola |
so, blake, do you really think a catch can can make my bike consume 1.5lt of oil in under 500 kms? | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Why? I guess it is a case of personal choice. | ||
| Raceautobody |
I changed my rocker boxes on my X1 to XB ones with the PVC valves in them then to a catch can. The PVC valves buell uses only act as one way valves, Air can go out of the motor though them but can't go into the motor. The way buell plumbs the breather into the air box it is before the throtle plate. Hence very little vacuum if any. They need to be hooked to manifold vacuum to aid in drawing out blow by. If your hose routing is not blocked the crackcase should breathe fine. There is something else wrong to consume that much oil that fast. Al | ||
| Fullpower |
the original post implied that one half of the (3) Liters of oil were consumed. If this is the case, then the bike was overfilled. as capacity is only 2.5 quarts, the surplus oil will be consumed rapidly. | ||
| Bosezone |
Blake, I think you misunderstood my post. "the breather, venting into the intake, does nothing to effect the pressure on the crankcase side." Read my statement again with commas inserted. I was stating that placing or removing the breather from the INTAKE will not have any significant effect on the crankcase pressure. I was NOT saying that the breather valve does nothing to effect crankcase pressure. Obviously that is it's purpose. The mechanic was trying to say that simply removing the breather from the intake changed the crankcase pressure. And certainly if you were to somehow block the breather you could cause excessive pressure in the crankcase and have oil blow by the rings. "Besides, whatever volume of gas the breather was venting into the intake will be replaced by fresh air anyhow." Again, I did not state that fresh air would enter the CRANKCASE. You misread my statement entirely. I said the INTAKE. Again the mechanic was saying that venting the crankcase into the non sealed air box somehow causes a significant increase in pressure on the intake side. And that removing that pressure would presumably cause a larger difference between the crankcase and the intake causing blow by. Well this simply isn't the case and I was saying that whatever gas is no longer vented into the airbox will be replaced by fresh intake air (which is actually a good thing) "And the breather isn't "pumping" pressurized gas into the intake, geeez."} yes, the breather is venting pressurized gas from the crankcase as designed, but as I stated, it isn't PUMPING it into the INTAKE, It is VENTING it into free air space which does not cause any significant increase in airbox pressure. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks for clarifying.  | ||
| Brianb |
If the oil your missing isn't in can, I would pull the plugs. You are burning oil in a cylinder. If the plugs are clean than it was probably underserviced. You can do a consumption run by putting a measured amount of oil in. Run it for 500 miles. Drain the oil into the same measured container you filled the case with. Thats the way to know if your engine is burning it. You will have signs on your plugs if its burning though. |
