| Author |
Message |
    
Josh
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 01:00 am: | 
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Gains from fooling with the timing.
I'd like to get the bike back on the DynoJet 250 I had her on last year, maybe after Colorado.
Josh |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 09:40 am: |
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Something is wrong. |
Josh
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 10:20 am: |
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Yeah, it looks like something is a little off. The heads are flowing, that mid range drop is what happened when the muffler was open and the FI couldn't compensate.
Another point of reference, a guy on ATC had an X1 w/ airbox, muffler and a PCIII w/O2 sensor. Made less HP than me. Cycleramma "played with timing and cam position sensor" and got him to 95+HP. Mebe I'll ask Pammy.
We played with timing, but it has never been "set" nor has cam position ever been checked. Guess I have more work to do after Colorado.
Josh |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 10:27 am: |
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Yes, I hear Cycle-Rama knows these fuelies well, but Brian has had a ton of fuelie customers with excellent results, I'd sure give him a ring and get his ideas.
Sometimes this stuff is hard. Takes some head scratching and theorizing and experimenting. Believe me, I've had lots of unhappy days on the dyno. I just post about the happy ones, though  |
Pammy
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 07:34 pm: |
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Aaron, Buell's fuel injection, or rather the lack of information gathering devices, to run their fuel injection, is hard to get around. I tried on my bike, before I switched to carb.
Unfortunately, Dyno-jet is the only "fix" around (that's affordable anyway). That might not be for long. I hear Mark Dobeck(Founder of Dyno-Jet)is starting up a new company, now that the term of his "NO COMPETE" clause has ended.
I agree, that Josh should call Brian. He may have some ideas on this matter(He seems to be a very smart and dedicated man)...it doesn't appear, to me, to be something that could be fixed over the phone.
Best of luck,
Pammy |
Josh
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 09:20 pm: |
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Hmm, according to the manual, the cam position sensor is in the "nose cone," bolts into place and can't be adjusted. Cam timing = engine timing (or did we know that already?)
Hmm, static timing includes removing tail section and refers to a breakout box, jacking up the engine and viewing the front intake valve as it opens and close. Heck I had enough trouble figuring that out when I had the rocker boxes off. Maybe I'll leave it to professionals. ;)
I emailed Brian, if I have time tomorrow I'll give him a call.
Josh and Mariabelen
...Off to Colorado |
Fastback69
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 10:04 am: |
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Ok, here's my second and third pull on the dyno. The only thing we changed was the timing, which we advanced about 1-1/2o.
Cap says that we should be able to get the hp and tq into the 80's with more tuning. |
Fastback69
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 10:07 am: |
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 |
Lsr_Bbs
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 10:25 am: |
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Pammy,
Good to see you still around. Yep, Buells DDFI is simply elegant and what's such a strong point is also it's biggest weakness...now if they'd release the PC software and data cable that the Buell techs have, it'd be another story. PCIII might work well enough, but it's still a bit of a kludge (IMO). If BMC would ever release software/cable I'd go back to FI in a heartbeat...but alas, it's just a pipedream
=================
Josh, CPS (Cam Position Sensor) is slotted just like any regular ign. sensor for a motor. Can be zeroed w/ a DVOM (don't remember anything about jacking up the bike, etc...).
Neil Garretson
X0.5 |
Josh
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 10:34 am: |
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Neil, that was to set timing (the manual sez: bolt in cam sensor, set timing) What do you mean Zeroed? To set timing they say to put engine at TDC then hook a voltmeter to the ECM and output (on 2 specific pins) will be 0-.5v and then something about moving Windows and changing to 5volts.
Pammy, how far is Cyclerama from Chatanooga, Tn?
Josh |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 11:23 am: |
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Phil: 1.5 degrees? How was that measurement made?
Each mark, big or small, is 5 degrees, so 1.5 degrees is barely moving the plate at all. |
Lsr_Bbs
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 02:27 pm: |
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Josh,
Ok, I was simplifing a bit. The ECM "assumes" a certain base timing seting on the CPS, so you do need to set it to this value (as you describe) which is what I was referring to by zeroing the cps.
What you do is loosen the 2 posts that hold the CPS, hook up a DVOM on the 2 pins indicated. With igni. on (I believe) you rotate the plate till the voltage changes as indicated in the manual.
This does allow for the timing to be adjusted/retarded just like a carb ignition..just rotate the plate after installing as manual says. I had to do this (retard the timing slightly) on my X1 to eliminate a slight pinging I had (sea level in SE Georgia in hard on fuel mixtures).
Neil Garretson
X0.5 |
Fastback69
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 03:29 pm: |
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AW,
The plate is just barely advanced from where the factory had it. Cap tried to advance it to the next mark and the power dropped off, so back it went. I tried to retard the timing for power and it didn't run right. I thought each mark was 2.5o. I went 2 marks when I tried to retard it, so maybe just one mark down would be better. |
Pammy
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 07:23 pm: |
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Josh, I am about 10 hours from Chattanooga.
Neil, I still check in every now and then...
Dyno Jet has a self-adjusting software available(to dealers) for the PCIII. I haven't tried it yet...I am a bit leary of anything new that DJ comes out with(usually expensive and doesn't work properly). Of course I could see software changing the fuel settings in the PCIII according to air/fuel readings. If it works...it would be great.
We shall see....
Pammy |
Rhanz
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 12:25 am: |
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I'll try to get the dyno charts scanned tomorrow, but...
just got my S3 back from the shop (SD Harley). Kooks exhaust system, Buell race filter, PCIII.
92HP
79Tq.
Torque peak at around 4000.
Hp peaks (and is completely even) from 5K up.
me = happy
Rob |
Josh
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 12:59 pm: |
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Ok, follow up dyno run completed. Results are good, but now I have questions I probably won't get the answer to.
After the last dyno run (on a DynoJet150; top of this page or just scrolled off), I put 3000 miles on the bike then had a leakdown test done per Brian Nallin. 1% front cyl, <2% rear. I then put on the race header with the WestTek muffler and a Bosch o2 sensor.
Here's before and after the latest mods:
Before: WestTek muffler, RaceECM, K&N filter, DynoJet200
After: Nallin Stage 1 heads, Total Seal Rings, .005" over Buell pistons, Race Head pipe, new Bosch o2, DynoJet250
So maybe the rings weren't seated for the DynoJet150 run, or the RaceHeader made all the difference, or the DynoJets differ. I dunno.
Also, ran the bike in 4th and 5th gear (above charts are all 4th) bike made much better power in 5th: 95HP and 82ft/lbs but I'll post that chart later.
Josh
99 S3T
PS anyone have WinPep? I have all the runs I made on the 200 and 250 on diskette but I think DynoJet only gives away the DOS viewing program. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 09:50 pm: |
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1998 S1
0 Miles: T-Storm heads/Buell Race System/Force Intake/Dynojet kit installed by Earl Smalls HD.
Original owner said dyno showed 80 HP.
I bought the bike with 9500 miles. Adjusted needle 2 clips leaner. Just drove it to:
19,650 Miles: Pro Series Intake Manifold installed.
Ran it on dyno, said good enough. 86.7HP/77ft-lbs. No tuning.
Guess I got a Tuesday-Thursday bike. |
Jeffb
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 08:23 am: |
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1999 X1 91 cid. 4" bore x 3-5/8", N9 cams, Supertrapp IDS, S&S E carb, Compufire Ignition., 4th gear runs
The other graph is the same bike bone stock.
The spark pick up cut out a couple of times, but you get the idea.
 |
Aaron
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 08:41 am: |
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Nice result!
4" bore? So these are S&S or STD cases with a different bolt pattern? Whose heads are you using?
AW |
Jeffb
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:36 am: |
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The engine is all S&S. S&S SA cases with the same bolt pattern as the Big Twin S&S 4" cases. The heads are cleaned up, but not ported S&S production heads. The flywheels are knife egded road race S&S. This is the same engine S&S is now selling as a complete long block for Buells. I am heading back to the drag strip this weekend and am hoping for low 11's. We'll see.
Jeff Bailey |
Aaron
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:45 am: |
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It sure rocks! Gorgeous torque curve, too. Congratulations! |
Leeaw
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 10:01 am: |
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Jeffb,
Scary numbers. How many kidneys do I have sell for that? |
Hoser
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 10:41 am: |
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Josh:
Winpep can be installed on your PC at home if you can get your hands on a disk , or Dynojet does have a demo program , the last one I had was only good for 60 days and then would not open anymore. I brought the program disk home from work , installed it and now have winpep on my home computer , this allows me to print , email , post graphs. I use diskettes to bring home dyno runs.
Jeffb:
Impressive !!! , one question : why is the stock bike dyno run # 046 and the modified version # 013 ?? . I don't question the credibility of what you posted but there are a few skeptics around here who might.
Jeff tryingnottobeaturdinthepunchbowl |
Jeffb
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 11:32 am: |
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Hoser:
The file numbers are out of order because I changed the base file name. When you do that the computer starts numbering back at zero. I did thirteen runs last night to get that run. I didn't do 46 to get the stock run. I had 45 runs on my S1 with the same file name and didn't rename the base file when I started on the X1.
I didn't even cheet on the run I am showing. I did another run in 5th gear and looked at STD Hp and had even more, but didn't want to get called on that one. You guys are too smart for that.
Leeaw:
The engine's aren't cheep, but there is only so far you can go with the 1200.
AW:
You are right, the torque curve is nice. This is a fun bike to ride. I have ridden an S1 with more HP but it was too much power for that chassis. It felt like the bike had a flat rear tire. This bike is just about right, not that more HP is always better, but at least I can keep up with 600 metric bikes.
Jeff |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 12:03 pm: |
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Aaron, others,
I believe Jeff's bike is the one I've seen on a local BRAG ride. Very nice running and sweet/mean sounding bike.
The S&S long block should make for a very tempting option for those wanting more power. |
Jeffb
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 10:59 am: |
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Mikej
I stopped at Hal's last night and talked to Rick. He told me about the Harley night at the drag races next Wednesday. I think I am going to try to make it. I am going to Great Lakes Dragway this Sunday for sure. There is a test and tune from 8-5. That was me at one of the rides. I had to go home early with some engine problems though.
Jeff |
Mikej
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 11:19 am: |
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I remember that now. We must have just missed each other at Hal's last night. Where's the Great Lakes Dragway? I have to catch a flight Sunday morning, otherwise I'd maybe tag along. I may take the Honda to the Wed night drags just for grins, maybe I'll bungie a spare Buell gas tank on the seat so I "qualify". 
Hey, are you up for leading a bunch of out-of-towners between Sauk city and S&S during Homecoming? We're sort of putting together a loose-knit ride. I also noticed that Pingel is somewhat "on the way". Should be plenty easy to get people lost out in the farmlands. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 01:47 pm: |
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JayBee : for us colour challenged, I had to look carefully before I realised which line was which And that sucker bolts straight in !!!
Would you care to elaborate on the "S1 had more HP but it was too much HP for the chassis" ? Just how much is too much in the land of not enough ? C'mon man cough up .......
Rocket in England |
Dart
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 10:29 pm: |
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When I dyno my M2 (Forcewinder intake, Daytona Boss exhaust, and Thunderslide kit) shouldn't there be some sort of forced air aimed at the intake so the dyno will read right?
I just had my dealer dyno my M2, they screwed the readings up by not setting up the dyno programing correctly and not having any air blowing on my bike at all (if it's supposed to be). Actually, for the next time I come in they had asked me if I had a leaf blower to blow air onto my intake as the dyno runs it's test. When I got my chart, the RPM scale only went from 1600 to 3600, and my Torque scale was set for 10 to 150, and HP from 10 to 80. Needless to say, my chart looked as if M2 peaked 71HP @ 3000RPM, 125ft.lbs torque @3000 RPM. At the time all this happened, my rear exhaust hanger broke off and soon I'll be getting a free dynorun hopefully run by someone that knows what they are doing. Sorry, I don't have a scanner to show ya.
Steve
Molten M2 |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 10:53 pm: |
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Run, do not walk, away from the fool that dynoed your M2 without any forced air to cool the engine. That's pretty close to running your car with no coolant! |
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