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Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 01:32 am: | 
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I honestly was not trying to bash the right side scoop, believe it or not.
You asked about what "hole" I was talking about.
The rear jug has a cast hat that sits on the top and it has a square hole about 1"x1" dead center. That is where the wire for the Temp Sensor goes straight down to the center. If you funnel air toward it, it will cool that encased area to an extent. NOW, is it truly cooling the head or it is just creating lower temp for the sensor I do not know. Since it is a direct blast it could possibly cool the sensor first, but also the head....
Data taken from the bike only tells you what the sensor sees, not WHY. Since the design has changed (Added a right scoop) we need to know the why to really answer the question of if it works or not.
Now, on the left side scoop the problem is this.
The fan blows at the scoop and the scoop at operating temps will actually have temp at 3 to 4 times of ambient. This will make it very hard for the scoop to allow air to flow front to rear through it.
Nobody ever answered the question that I asked above about the left scoop. Is it a cooling scoop on other models or an intake?
BTW, the test that would show what is going on is a bike on the dyno with fans from the front. Then readings with an infrared temp gauge could be taken at various areas on the jug. Thermal imaging would be useful, but could be misleading. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 01:33 am: |
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Oh, and it isn't a money thing either. I am thinking an oversized oil cooler would be the issue.  |
Ka5ysy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 06:57 am: |
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RS Scooped bikes go faster!
We need to put a fan and air scoops on this thread... it is overheating heads (cylinders)  |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 07:45 am: |
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"in the real world the fans don't last long"
That is horribly inaccurate.
Not in my opinion. Fact: my fan quit at 7500 miles.
The rear jug has a cast hat that sits on the top and it has a square hole about 1"x1" dead center.
The scoop is directing air to the side and front of the cylinder fins. The "hole" in the top is way above where the air is being directed. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 09:28 am: |
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Anecdotal singular case. Statistically horribly inaccurate. No matter, should the fan fail, a right side scoop will not alleviate the need to replace/repair it. A right side scoop is ineffectual in and may in fact be detrimental in parade duty and post shut-down heat soaking scenarios.
I've upset some tender egos. I guess I need to clarify. Firstly, I wanted to be sure the quote Richard (Brucelee) posted was understood in its proper context. I think that is important. I think most reasonable people would agree.
Secondly, in stating that there is no fix needed, I was addressing the title of this thread. Let me clarify further; there is no "fix" needed, technically speaking, for the XB cooling system, period, end of story. I stand by that and so does Buell.
Thirdly, if I owned an XB and its fan ran a lot, I would likely be mounting up a right side scoop to help reduce its duty cycling, but that would be out of pure personal acoustical preference.
Fourthly, while I don't own an XB, I know a little bit about what went into proof-testing the XB engine cooling system, and I'm very comfortable in stating that no one is likely to every subject their XB to such an extreme desert baking in a box test, ever.
That's all.
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression to some folks. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 09:33 am: |
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Birdman,
Since it screws into the cylinder head, I doubt the sensor can be cooled without also having the cylinder head cooled along with it. |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 09:40 am: |
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I think the fans on the Uly have indeed proven to be somewhat less reliable than on other XBs. I never was able to see the results of my last informal poll because the thread turned into yet another infomercial for extra scoops. The feeling I got was that there are a number of Ulys out there that have had their fans replaced under warranty. Mine has not quit, but it developed a sickly rattle right at 8k. That made me contemplate the extra scoop.
So, inaccurate it may be to say that all fans are unreliable, but it isn't 'horribly' inaccurate. On the inaccuracy scale, I would put it at 'mildly.' |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 09:41 am: |
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Oh, and for me, it's all about the return on my $300 investment.  |
Ikeman
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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I kept thinking I read something about vapor lock and the scoops. Found it in the Ulysses chat on the Buell website:
bucho65: What is the purpose of the plastic cover on the right side of the engine? I heard it is to aid cooling but I can't see how since it blocks air to the rear cylinder.
Dan: What you've heard is correct. The scoop on the left side put a large volume of air over the rear cylinder. Enough for our spark plug base temperatures to fall line-on-line when we measure them. At speed cooling the rear cylinder is easy. When a bike is moving slowly we need to draw the air over the engine using the fan. The right side panel along with the other body panels direct the way the air flows around the engine, resulting in great airflow across the fuel rail so the bike can idle indefinitely even in 100 degree weather without causing vapor lock. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
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My fan crapped out at 5,000 miles....but I don't think it had anything to do with it running all the time (which it does). I think it was a bad fan. I work in IT and support multiple sites with gaggles of networking equipment. Switches, routers, firewalls, servers, phone systems, etc. They all have fans. They run 24x7x356 and I seldom ever see a failure.
Ever fire up a server? The fans in a server make the Uly sound like a regular household fan. Those suckers move serious air, yet they keep running...never stopping.
I figure I've got maybe 150 to 200 hours (give or take) on my Ulysses, and the fan has run most of them, but that's nothing compared to what the fans life should be.
This early in the bike's life, dying fans should have nothing to do with them running. When was the last time you replaced the radiator fan in your car? I never have.
I'm guessing (no facts here), that Buell's supplier sent them a batch of bad fans, or they sold them crap fans to begin with.
Before I invested in a RSS, I'd do some searching for fan manufacturers that sell premium fans. One that is designed to move LOTS of air in a mission critical application. I'd put that sucker on my bike and rest assured that it's going to keep going. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 01:22 pm: |
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"Nobody ever answered the question that I asked above about the left scoop. Is it a cooling scoop on other models or an intake"
I answered your question 25 posts ago.
The left side scoop on my XB9s is both a cooling scoop and an intake scoop. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 01:26 pm: |
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As far as vapor lock goes, I have run the bike in 105 degrees for two hours. No vapor lock on with the right side scoop. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 03:36 pm: |
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OK Bruce, sorry I missed it. (Left scoop comment)
I would not worry about vapor lock with the scoop, doesn't even play.
The hole at the top would get air from the right scoop as the pressure change by adding the right scoop in addition to the left scoop creates an equal pressure differential. (Fluid Dynamics)
The statement that the head would get cooled along with the sensor was admitted by me up front, it was my part of my initial question. The question furthers asks for the proof, not speculation...just because you think is does, does not make it so. (Flat Earth Theory)
If you guys want to continue to spout opinion this goes nowhere. Until we get actual testing it remains unproven.
Since I changed where I get fuel and have added conditioners to lower grade fuel I have had zero problem with my bike.
As far as my fan, I wear custom molded earpieces so I don't hear it.
As far as not being able to duplicate the hot box you are incorrect. If you don't believe me come sit on the US60 or 101 Loop in Phoenix with me sometime. I had a 2002 V-Rod and it to date it the only place you can consistently overheat the bike. Ford even pulled the supercharged Cobra's that they had for sale a few years back because they could not guarantee performance in the heat. (They have since added intercoolers)
6 lanes of hot vehicles on asphalt with a starting temp of 115-degrees and you get temps hovering in the 140 range or higher. I know heat, I live where it is and it is the reason that they tested the Uly here and why most everyone tests vehicles here. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 06:18 pm: |
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But it's a dry heat.  |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 06:49 pm: |
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It is right after is sucks all the moisture from your body!!! |
Soloyosh
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
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It's not the hours that kills the fan its the cycling. It shortens the life of the bearing.
So whatever perceived cooling benefit you're getting and whether your're actually helping the situation aside, are you actually getting any durability benefit for the fan with the right side scoop? If my scoopless bike cycles the fan on during the ride and off after the bike has cooled down and your scooped bike cycles the fan on when you turn the ignition off and off after the bike cools down, bearing wise, I think we've both done the same damage. I've just got more use out of the damage.
I just find it hard to believe that a company worth it's salt design and testing wise would pass on $10 piece of plastic if it had a benefit. Styling wise it looks good. I'm guessing that it's not there for a reason. I imagine that the reason is a pretty good one.
Just my $0.02
Oh and Lowflyer my fan is going... ain't gone yet. I've got 10000 miles, mostly in 10-15mile chunks (lots of cycling). |
Dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
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Almost 13k and mine (knock on the wood) is still happy. Then again ... the other issues others have had found their way to my Uly was well.
DAve |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 07:22 pm: |
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I'm at just over 9k and my original fan sounds sick, but it is still going too. I plan to have it replaced at the 10k service. |
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