| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Richard, You seem to know that quote very well. Do you know the context in which it was stated? If so, would you care to share it? | ||
| Blake |
The reason I mention the context is that it is extremely pertinent and without knowing said context, most folks would be mislead by your prior statements. I'm sure that was not your intent. | ||
| Brucelee |
Blake, I do remember this interview with Erik. I believe it was in an early edition of Fuell but I am not sure on that. Erik was discussing the reason that he created the fan and how it worked. He indicated that: The rear cylinder was up in the frame on the XB and that created some special heat concerns vs other twins that had plenty of air running around the back cylinder. He further indicated that the head temps could easily exceed 400 degrees and that at that temps, the oil that happened to be in the head at that time could literally get cooked, esp when the engine was turned off and the oil was no longer circulating through the motor but sitting there. Hence, according to Erik, the fan was installed to either keep the head from reaching the extreme temp and/or to cool the head upon shut down. That is my recollection. I wish I had kept the article. Having said that, someone here once posted the reference to the patent app for the cooling system on the XB. That app has more verbiage on the fan et al than I have seen before or since. Hope that helps. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Birdman, I was already a little hot regarding a domestic issue when I posted my response to your post, gotta learn to post when more relaxed, so maybe I did go off some on you. Sorry about that. But, and there is a but, reading your followups and jabs at some of the others here, combined with a lot of your own conjecture and misstated "facts", leads me to think this thread was created to see how big the brushfire would get... So here are some empirical facts: Nobody can possibly make me feel bad about my purchase. I would only regret spending that much if it didn't do what I wanted it to do. I have not heard of anybody rejoicing about how much these scoops cost, but I have heard nothing but good about them from those that buy them. Thermal dynamics dictate that heat-induced molecular activity will move toward areas of less activity, that's how radiators and cylinder finning work. More air flowing over the fins carries the heat away better than less air and pulls more from the core source. Guess what's imbedded into the core source, could it be the ETS? Hmmmm.... And the most empirical fact of all, from the moment I installed the scoop the dynamics of the fan-cooling cycles changed. I've been laughing inside my helmet every time I've exited the fwy the last few days with a silent fan. Except HORRORS today it turned on just as I was getting off... course I had gone about 20 mi at 85 and it's in the 80's today. The scoop puts the airflow directly onto the rightside finning of the rear cylinder HEAD... what is this "hole" you refer to which could allow the ETS wiring to cool enough to affect its readings, as you surmise? I don't need thermal imaging or a rolling computer setup with dozens of sensors to convince me my engine is running with a cooler head. I believe Buell has probably already done enough of that to come up with the XB fan system in the first place but since in the real world the fans don't last long I believe my R/S scoop is simply a functional improvement. Seat of the pants has never let me down. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I recently read somewhere that Buell played with having the fan blow on the head at times. I can only imagine that would be when the key went to "off". They decided to simplify by only running the fan the way we have it. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I also understood that the left scoop on the ULY is where the fan draws from. Is this correct?? | ||
| Davo |
Electroglider 1997, I believe that is correct. The left side scoop also plays an important job bringing cool air to the rear cylinder spark plug foundation. Keeping the spark plug at the correct temperature is important in order to tune the engine for all seasons and keep the engine and plug happy. Birdmanrh, Were you having problems with your bike going into skip spark mode some time ago and if it was, what was your solution to the problem? | ||
| Lowflyer |
Hey Birdman, I sympathize with your plight. Problem is, the pro-scoopers sunk $250-$300 into the idea that it works. Hard data is now irrelevant. Its been this way since the RSS came out. | ||
| Blake |
Mr. Buell's reference to oil cooking in the cylinder heads was specifically concerning a parade duty situation and/or a post shut-down heat-soak scenario. The computer controlled two speed ducted forced-air cooling (read fan) system prevents either of those problematic engine heating scenarios. That was his point. No other bike has an engine cooling system that will prevent heat-soak from cooking the oil in the heads following shutdown. That was the main gist of Mr. Buell's comments concerning oil cooking in the cylinder heads. It had to do with the effects of heat-soak following shutdown. | ||
| Blake |
There is no "fix" needed for the OEM Buell XB dual speed computer controlled forced air cooling system, period, end of story. | ||
| Blake |
"in the real world the fans don't last long" That is horribly inaccurate. | ||
| Gowindward |
"XB fan system in the first place but since in the real world the fans don't last long " Where is your data to support that statement? | ||
| Brucelee |
"There is no "fix" needed for the OEM Buell XB dual speed computer controlled forced air cooling system, period, end of story." Nice to see you have an open mind! Do you even have an XB? | ||
| Brucelee |
"That was the main gist of Mr. Buell's comments concerning oil cooking in the cylinder heads. It had to do with the effects of heat-soak following shutdown: So, the fan runs when the XBs are running at speed why? | ||
| Xbimmer |
Jeez... I'm backing out now. It doesn't take much imagination or any "hard data" to understand that more moving air onto the surfaces of hot metal cools that mass of hot metal better than less moving air. Doubters believe what you want. Millions of aircooled VW's with focused ducted airflow successfully stretching their lifespans (without thermal imaging) somehow happened. Want to prove pro-scoopers wrong? Buy one from Al or Trojan Horse or Rob, test however you want. Present some of that hard data convincingly proving the scoop is a sham. If that ever happens I'll be the first to admit I was duped. Until then I'm riding a quieter Uly with a fan that will probably last longer since it's working far less. How does that old saying go? Oh yeah, "Don't knock it 'til you try it". Peace/out. P.S. Data, data, data... OK, took me awhile to post this one, so about the fan life expectancy. I've put almost 7k miles on my Uly in its first 4 months and the fan is rattling. Other BadWebbers have posted of early fan failures, some with multiple occurences. That seems excessive to me, especially since my Ulysses has had more problems occur in its first four months than my other two new bikes did in their first three years combined. I love this machine and intend to work through its problems. And how the heck do some people believe that manufacturers are always right? (Message edited by xbimmer on August 14, 2006) | ||
| Brucelee |
Xbimmer, I have tried this logic on the anti scoop crowd for months. I predict they will come back with "yeah but", within minutes. In fact, Blake has declared the issue settled. I have had a scoop for 2 years and love it. Experience over theory. Go figure. Speaking of a dead horse, here they come........... | ||
| Lowflyer |
You guys are waaaaay too emotional about your extra scoops. That only means one thing to me; you're all pissed cause it was a big waste of money.   | ||
| Brucelee |
"You guys are waaaaay too emotional about your extra scoops. That only means one thing to me; you're all pissed cause it was a big waste of money" Interesting logic. You can do better, I have seen it here. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Lowflyer, I don't consider it a big waste of money at all. But then I have one, do you?  Pro-scoopers just trying to share the love and help out the brothers, sometimes I just get a little befuddled by the opposition's entrenchment...  | ||
| Brad1445 |
Growing up my brother built Harleys for a living. I remember him way back when talking about how the rear jug would age first, and that's on a Harley not up in a XB frame. If the fans are committing suicide why not give them a boost. Not to mention less hairdryer sound. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Teeps, want to borrow my scoop for a week and do one of those invalid seat-of-the-pants evaluations? Rock Store next Sunday? | ||
| Lowflyer |
Easy fellas. I was at full-yank on your collective chains.  | ||
| Gowindward |
Okay, so you make this statement. "XB fan system in the first place but since in the real world the fans don't last long " Then back it up with this. "Data, data, data... OK, took me awhile to post this one, so about the fan life expectancy. I've put almost 7k miles on my Uly in its first 4 months and the fan is rattling. Other BadWebbers have posted of early fan failures, some with multiple occurences." So that's one fan making some noise at 7K miles, then a few other "internet hearsay" failures. So your data is truly your one noisy fan. I'm all for your RSS and your positive experience with it. More power to you...Really! But to make global statements like the fans don't last long is just not right. My personal experiences are that I like the asymmetric look of the two stock scoops. With the headers coming off the right hand side the bike begs for that asymmetric design in IMHO. As for the fan noise who cares! I wear ear plugs 99% of the times I ride, and can not hear it until I turn the bike off. Oh and I have 27500 miles on my 04 12r and the fan runs smooth as silk when it does run. | ||
| Xbimmer |
It's cool Lowflyer, motorcycling's all about individualism anyway, right?  | ||
| Lowflyer |
Yep, we all want to be different; just like everyone else. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Gowindward, I'll clarify. Every single post on this Forum is internet hearsay including mine and yours, until backed up by docs, just like any other enthusiasts forum. But forums are where people with problems go and that's where non-factory solutions can be hashed out. Taste is subjective not objective and although I also like the asymmetric look of the stock XB the addition of a r/s scoop is an objective and functional improvement IMO. Fan noise is not the issue in this thread, if you run a r/s scoop you hear it less frequently anyway. And it's great that you're happy with your R cause I love those things too and if I could fold my old frame up into one of those for any length of time I'd have one. But we're talking Uly's and from what I've seen here the last few months the X has its own unique problems to overcome. (Message edited by xbimmer on August 15, 2006) | ||
| Brad1445 |
Good point xBimmer. I bough a XB9S in 2004, a XB12R in 2005 and now the XB12X in 2006, The Uly fan runs far more than the others did, must be the change in frame size? | ||
| Birdmanrh |
I am not anti-scoop. I was just trying to get some facts instead of opinion. Obviously I will not get it here. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I would go for an oversized LSS over an RSS. I dig the asssymmetry. If I was to get all scoophappy, that is. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I don't know Brad1445 about the frame's influence, the XB12Ss has the same frame but I haven't done a lot of reading about heat and constant-running fan problems with them. I suppose it's possible the deeper 12Ss and Uly frames could contain more heat around the rear cylinder than the other XB's. My gut feeling about our Ulys is that the realsized seat and our tendency to clutter up the rear of the bike with baggage MAY hamper the exit channels for the fan's efforts. Oops, seat-of-the-pantsing again. Birdman, don't go away so soon, you started some real brainstorming here supporting or contradicting your theory. If you stick your finger into a flame you don't need a computer to tell you it's really hot... |
