| Author | Message | ||
     Whodom |
I think we are gonna see steady improvement and a podium, if not a win, before the end of the year. Remember Court said they had some changes to implement to McWilliams' bike after Laguna Seca that couldn't be done in time for Mid-Ohio. The bikes are finishing races, they're showing some consistent finishes, and more bikes are making it into the hands of privateers which hopefully means more XBRR's will be running in the 3 remaining races. I think things are gonna get REAL interesting before the end of the season.  | ||
| Lorazepam |
I am willing to bet that the guys in the back of the "conga line" are more than 50 seconds back at the end of lap one. I never in my wildest dreams expect to see a Buell on the podium this year. I can sure hope for one though  I expect them to be competitive within 3 years though. I for one am very glad to see Buell make the commitment to racing, and hope they can expand the effort to europe as well. | ||
| Slaughter |
Before the SBK final at Laguna, we swapped Scott Jensens' BRAND NEW Ohlins superbike forks back to last years forks. Are the NEW Ohlins crap? Nope, the old ones worked better at Laguna and there was NO time left to dial the new ones in. Swapped front ends and then swapped springs. Good to go. I'm sure there's a future for Ohlins in racebike suspensions despite our "negative" experience. | ||
| What_the |
Simply stated the muffler is FIM/AMA legal quiet. The bugger about the last two races was qualifying, and getting gapped very early by the leaders. One can't make that up even if you're mentally prepared to run the same pace. Not saying it's on the pace of the blue bikes yet, but starting towards the front, motivates the grey matter in the helmet connected to the arse a bit more mid race. Podiums are born by starting towards the front. At a minimum it makes it easier. "It... or development" become "rider feel" issues, thus the term "development" is thrown out like tossing parts at a bike makes all the difference. Get the brain happy with what the hands and butt feel, and results will follow. No magic, just hard work, and a bit of money to execute it. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I just acknowledge there is a ways to go. I'm not laughing at you, per se. But you brought back the fondest memory of a conversation with Erik Buell in 1987. . . the words "there is a ways to go" were just as applicable when Erik had $352 and was dreaming of someday selling a dozen bikes a year. He works harder now. | ||
| Diablobrian |
You, Sir, are a complete waste of time and bandwidth. Just by the name you've chosen you admit to being contrary and a wet blanket. I'm done with you, and your ranting and raving. I will say this, at least I am man enough to admit when I've made a mistake, and to use MY REAL NAME. I'm not hiding behind a keyboard. You cannot claim the same "Raining on the parade" or whatever the translation is. | ||
| Slaughter |
What is the translation of "pissing in the wind?" | ||
| Thepup |
"Dark and Thanse, The dual discs are on the bike because they bought one of the $10,000 Ohlins front ends that Honda and Yamaha are using, and it's the only way it comes at the moment. There was great concern about the roughness and general condition of Mid Ohio, so they spent the money. Remember Jeremy ran the ZTL to a higher position finish at Laguna, and Crevier himself was up to 7th at Road America with the ZTL on a track that is MUCH worse on brakes than Mid Ohio. So, once again, I think the results tell it like it is. So don't buy into the Trojan horse, guys!" I remember a few ppl on here stating that the Honda and Yamaha forks cost as much as the XBRR,now their forks only cost $10,000,interesting. | ||
| Trojan |
According to the AMA web site (if I remember correctly) the Yamaha team swapped DiSalvo's Ohlins forks for a set of 'stock-ish' R6 items for the race at Laguna. As far as changing the Daytona race to FX goes, It was the very public tyre failures that hit DiSalvo and Mladin in testing a couple of years ago that prompted the decision to drop the Superbike class from the 200. The organisers were obviously worried that a similar tyre failure in the race would be very bad news indeed for the future of the race. Moto GP tyres are a completely different beast to the Superbike tyres. Just look at how Dunlop struggle in MotoGP and yet dominate Superbike in most domestic championships. | ||
| Jimidan |
This has certainly been an interesting discourse. Let's do it again sometime. jimidan | ||
| José_quiñones |
The AMA did not decide to switch the Daytona 200 from a Superbike to a FX race. The Speedway MADE THEM DO IT. If the AMA did not do it, the Speedway was going to give the 200 to CCS/Formula USA to run using their Superbike Class (600 cc bike based) It was under this threat that the AMA made the change. Read about it HERE | ||
| José_quiñones |
The fact that Buells were racing in FX certainly didn't hurt the cause to switch the 200 to that class. More bike brands on the track = more fans in the stands. So once they allow the 675 Triumph, the BMW K bikes and World Supersport Spec Ducati 749's into the class and raise the minimum weight of all bikes from 350 to 375 pounds that will help Buell and everybody else to keep the inline 4's in sight. While I'm on a roll and certain AMA board members lurk here, allow World Superbike Spec Ducatis in AMA Superbike so they'll continue to race here next year. (Message edited by José_quiñones on August 08, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
Yeah! What JQ said! Puppy boy, Interesting logic. You figure the XBRR's OEM Ohlins forks cost nothing? If Buell were to upgrade the XBRR to a $10K set of Ohlin forks the price would increase, but not by $10K. Curt, Your stated view helps explain your odd opinions on the Buell FX effort(s), "WINNING is the ONLY thing" I sure don't believe that, and I'm pretty sure that none of the privateers or even factory farm teams believe that. I doubt that even all the factory teams believe that, Kawasaki and Honda for instance in the Superbike class. Improving, making progress, learning, doing the best with what you have, and gaining experience are among some of the other extremely laudable and valuable goals for any professional racing team. "They are not 55 seconds behind in the "conga line" usually," After just the first lap, I agree, but half of that is probably not unreasonable; it is certainly significant. What "What_the" said! The fact is that Crevier advanced his position incredibly in that race. He and his team improved, learned, gained experience, and made some significant progress doing the very best that they could. That is the hallmark of a successful racing program. Period. (Message edited by Blake on August 08, 2006) | ||
| Court |
Actually that is no more accurate that the ridiculous "win on Sunday...sell...blah, blah, blah" The behaviour (spelled in deference to the Oz-ites)of motorcycle buyers is pretty well recorded and chronicled. This discussion seldom sees blue sky because it pales in a "black and white; either/or" argument when the position is misconstrued as "well, if winning is not everything then you are saying it's not important". Fact it, is *IS* important; it's not everything. Advancing, creating excitement, sprinkling in new, learning things and creating a "we're in this together" espirt de corps mindset is paramount when it comes to crowd-think. Try this....if I told you Buell was NOT going to win at Daytona, but that for the first time their would be a REAL factory team, a gaggle of events and a chance to gather round the yellow-blue camp fire with old friends would you come/not come? I'm pretty impressed with what the folks at Buell are doing. I, and maybe it's just me, like it when a "factory team" that can ride to lunch together in a Yugo are given a very limited budget and told "go prove something". I can get behind that pretty easily......even if by the 3rd race we've only been in the Top 10 twice. Me?....I like the like minded folks there cheering with me and listening to some of the curmudgeons give me pause to realize how lucky I am. I was a competitive gymnast. I loved when I got Gold Medals, but when I got silver or bronze, I kept working. Doing well, in the big picture, is more important than winning. If you don't believe me go to a baseball game where a guy batting .300 (hitting (winning) LESS than a third of the pitches thrown right where he knows they are coming) is considered an "All-Star"???? P.S. - As some of you know.....I am in the construction business. You know what we call folks who "WIN" every bid they submit......."EX-CONTRACTORS"  | ||
| Curtyd |
That quote certainly is NOT original to me, all the other stuff is great, but they will WIN hopefully, if they don't they will get cut, don't you think? | ||
| M1combat |
I doubt it... As long as they continue to improve. I think they'll keep getting funded as long as they get/stay in the top five and get air time . | ||
| Thepup |
Blake,I have seen posted on here that the forks on the FX bikes for Honda and Yamaha cost more than the XBRR[the whole bike],is this true or does the forks on the Hondas and yamahas cost $10,000,just curious. (Message edited by thepup on August 08, 2006) | ||
| Whodom |
thepup88 Rider Member # 1128 posted 08-07-2006 07:05 PM Jim,according to the big shots on BadWeb,the forks on the Honda and Yamahas cost more than the XBRR,I love it when they get caught in a lie. Considering this post from you yesterday on the "semi-anti-Buell-site-which-shall-remain-nameless", is that a loaded question or what?  | ||
| Thepup |
Sure is Whodom.Just trying to get a straight answer. | ||
| M1combat |
You might do well to remember that the comment about those forks was made about the time of the 200. I would expect a team to pull out all of the spending stops for that race. I'd imagine that you could spend 30K on a set of forks. Also, there may have been new technology at that point that was being sold at a premium price that is now more into the "mainstream" and not as spendy. I don't know though. Just a couple observations from a guy with a somewhat positive attitude who isn't trying to be a punk. | ||
| Court |
>>>As long as they continue to improve. I think they'll keep getting funded as long as they get/stay in the top five and get air time That'd do it. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Back on topic... Curt, How long does it take a bike starting in 18th spot to cross the finish line, and how far behind is the 18th starting bike likely to be as the "conga line" of racers settles-in during the first lap? There is a reason why starting towards the front is desirable. CONGRATULATIONS BUELL AND DEALY'S AND STEVE CREVIER!!! Two Buell top tens in a row! Wooohooo! Things are starting to get very interesting in Formula Xtreme! What Blake said!!!! | ||
| What_the |
Tpup allow me... They do cost more than the bike in question. What's not understood is that price includes someone to look after them, which without that someone, is a bit pointless. Jose seems to be a bit more informed than most. | ||
| Xb9 |
You can find all the pictures I took at Mid-Ohio here: http://www.ohiosportbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1215#1215 | ||
| Thepup |
what the ,What_the? | ||
| M2nc |
You know, I have been reading this board and a couple others and I just do not understand the haters. There are those that just can not be happy for anything to do with Buells. You know they do not have to like anything about Buell, but why do they always have to put down Buell. Is it some kind of envy or something. It is said that the higher your head is, the more others want to cut it off, and Buell, the man, is as high right now as it gets in the Motorcycle industry. He is as controversial as his engineering designs and that polarizes people for some reason. He is doing something different and some perceive it as a challenge to the establishment. I just do not understand how some must put down the fact that Buell is trying to race in a premier class that most other manufacturers will not. If it is not the four Japanese manufacturer, they do not race. A few independents try to race the Ducatis, but no BMW, Triumphs, Aprillias, Moto Guzzi, or any other manufacturer is trying to compete. But here is Buell out there doing it their way trying to learn and making a good showing period, and the fact that this is the first year, they are doing exceptional. Come on guys, we are stuck on the cost of some forks, how about the cost of the entire race team with all the staff and equipment, test time at tracks and factory support for engineering in research and development. Come on, the top Japanese factory teams are multi-million dollar efforts. Buell is not spending anywhere near that amount and HD is not sharing the wealth either. Me for one hope they continue. Just like Ducati, they will learn allot from racing, even if they only actually win a race only once in a while. The latest 999RR are right on the heals of the best from the land of the rising sun. They have pulled themselves into contention because they are not afraid to try, and neither is Buell. GO BUELL!! | ||
| Whodom |
You can find all the pictures I took at Mid-Ohio here: http://www.ohiosportbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1215#1215 Great photos. Looks like Crevier was still running 17 inch wheels and tires. Maybe he'd have picked up a few more spots with the new 16.5's? | ||
| Xb9 |
The pics of Crevier's Bike were taken Friday morning, you can see they rolled it through tech with the ZTL front end. There's another pic later in the day where you see that front end sitting on the floor of their garage, as they were changing it over to the "other" front end/Brake assy. I'm not sure if they ended up racing with 16.5" or 17" wheels though. | ||
| Trojan |
It is extremely hard to see the difference between 16.5" and 17" wheels just from a photograph, as they both have the same rolling diameter. Lap times on a good 17" tyre should be around the same as the 16.5", although the latest Superbike compounds from Michelin & Dunlop are only available in the smaller size. Pirelli still make all their compounds available in either 16.5 or 17" as far as I know. The biggest difference on the smaller diameter wheel is felt at the rear end rather than the front, as the 16.5" size gives more side grip in corners. | ||
| Jimidan |
M2nc sez: "Just like Ducati, they will learn allot from racing, even if they only actually win a race only once in a while. The latest 999RR are right on the heals of the best from the land of the rising sun. They have pulled themselves into contention because they are not afraid to try, and neither is Buell." Well...not exactly "Just like Ducati". Ducati spends far more of its earnings on racing, per capita, than probably any other manufacturer...much less Buell which is "operating on a shoe string". Ducati is ALL about racing, as it is in their blood. The have two full-on factory bikes in MotoGP, several bikes in World SBK, and a couple in AMA Superbike. That is a lot for a company the size of Ducati, which is far smaller than HD. And then consider that HD has completely pulled out of road racing, unless you think that Buell is HD's effort...I don't. Those "crazy" (in the best way) Italians would probably spend all of their profits on road race teams if their Yankee investors would allow them to. It must have been the genes that Hannibal and his men contributed into their bloodline that makes them so competitive.  Actually, I wish Buell were more like Ducati in many ways, like designing and building a true world beater...that would be nice. But Buell has chosen not to and that is its prerogative. That is why I also own a Ducati, I guess. Buell isn't afraid to try racing, they have just chosen not to try too hard, if money spent is an indicator. I am not saying that the XBRR team isn't trying hard...far from it. They just do not have the corporate support to really get the job done. You can't run a winning race team at the FX level on a "shoe string", and we all know it. I call into question the Emgo M4 Suzuki team with Michael Barnes and Geoff May, which is a somewhat minor satellite factory team, no doubt. Buell Racing could learn a lot by observing this team and how they have worked hard at developing their bikes and riders into true contenders. This team was kicking it at Daytona this year in both AMA and ASRA/CCS races, and at all of the ASRA/CCS meets in the spring and early summer. And it is paying off in spades. Being not afraid to try is important in racing, but being ready to spend the money to succeed is paramount. I can say that I am enjoying the efforts of the XBRR team, and I am showing it with my hard earned dollars, which is the true test of a real fan. I just wish they would spend more money so I could enjoy it a little more. This is purely a selfish reason, I know. Jimidan |
