| Author | Message | ||
     Espcustoms |
I've only had my '04 XB12s for about 4 weeks and I'm already about to throw it off a cliff! I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me and save it. I just did the obligatory cheese grater removal and was putting everything back together. Turn on the key and nothing. Turns out the main fuse blew. I thought maybe it had just blow for some reason while I was reconnecting the negative battery terminal so I replaced it with the negative terminal still disconnected. Then reconnected the terminal and everything worked again. Of course, I know from just tracking down a short in my ACC circuit that there was going to be more to this so I got out my test light made form a 12v bulb and a blown fuse. Since it's the main battery fuse in question, I started messing with the battery terminals and cables, but found nothing that would change the brightness of the bulb. So, I put in another fuse and started the bike up. After about 5 seconds, she died. Of course the fuse was blown again. However, this time when I put my test light in again, I got no light. I tested continuity between the positive battery cable and one side of the fuse terminal successfully, but can't get continuity between the other side and the ground. I'm only assuming that it should so please correct me if I'm wrong. Although, I only found a couple of other fuse terminals that did test successfully so I don't know if it really tells me anything anyway. So now I can't get any power to anything as it seems there's a connection broken on the ground side of the main battery circuit. How do I even begin to look for the cause of this problem? Could the fuse block itself have had some sort of internal meltdown? Please help! I got rid of my chopper largely because I was tired of spending all my time in the garage fixing problems and now this bike seems no better. | ||
| Kowpow225 |
Erik, First off, DON'T GIVE UP YET!! The electrical problems on these things can get the best of you if you let it. I just had one myself. I think you'll REALLY like this bike once you get the find the culprit. Maybe a little more info on the problem could do us some good here and get'cha back up and rollin. | ||
| Kowpow225 |
Did this problem arise after the cheese grater removal or was it blowing main fuses before? | ||
| Espcustoms |
This didn't happen until after the cheese grater removal. In fact, I'm wondering if some of the grinding dust from the process found its way into some components and is responsible for the short. The bike was on the other side of the garage, but unfortunately I was too stupid to throw a cover over it or t least put the seat back on. Re-reading my first post, I realize I missed something too. Before I put the test light in and got nothing at all, I tried replacing the fuse while the battery was still hooked up. As soon as the fuse made contact, there was a little arcing going on. I never put it in far enough to blow that fuse, but it did weld the end a touch. Man, it's beautiful outside right now and there's a million bikes on the road. This sucks!! | ||
| Buellshyter |
It seems a bit premature to blame the bike when it was you that caused the problem by messing with it in the first place. | ||
| Aldaytona |
 | ||
| Espcustoms |
I'm not blaming the bike. I'm sure whatever is going on was caused by something I did. Don't get me wrong - I love the bike. But the only thing I did that I could see having this effect is leaving the seat off of it while I was grinding on the tail section in the same garage. There was a little dust on it, but not a ton. Of course it would only take one spec in the right place to cause a short. At this point, I just need someplace to start looking for the problem - whether it's my fault or not. Any advice Buellshyter? | ||
| Kowpow225 |
Hmmm. Ok try this. Take your seat off and check ALL of the wiring going to from or around the tail area. Disconnect your turn signals to reaffirm they are hooked up correctly. You've got a bad wire/wiring somewhere. | ||
| Espcustoms |
Ok, I went back to look at it some more and found that power had been restored to the circuit. I don't see a breaker on the wiring diagram, but maybe there's one in there somewhere? At any rate, I hooked in my test light again and it worked. After looking around and trying to trace the offending wires, I had no luck. Just for the hell of it, I disconnected the negative battery terminal, replaced the fuse again and hooked it back up. At this point, everything was functioning as normal including all the lights I had disconnected during the grater removal. Of course, I knew this wasn't going to last. As soon as I started the bike, the fuse blew again. Seems like the vibration must trigger the short, but the first time the fuse blew the bike was not running. From the wiring diagram, it looks like this fuse is in between the positive battery terminal and the voltage regulator. I can't figure out what could have gotten into what to cause a short in that circuit, but it seems like it would have to be related to the aluminum dust (I'll never make that mistake again). I vacuumed out everything, but there wasn't much visible dust and there was none at all in/on the fuse blocks. Any ideas on what to do next? | ||
| Davo |
Check the steering neck area. Put a new fuse in and move the handle bars back and forth. | ||
| Espcustoms |
I fixed that short 2 weeks ago, but still tried it again anyway. It doesn't seem to be up there. I found that short easily once I made the test light, but I'm not sure if I'll get the same use out of the light for this short. Since this is a 30 amp circuit, I don't know if there will be such a significant difference in the intensity of the light between shorted and normal. Can anyone confirm that the light will work just the same in a 30 amp circuit as a 10 amp? | ||
| Davo |
should be brighter Check the lead going into the fuel pump to the rear and left of the seat area. (Message edited by davo on August 05, 2006) | ||
| Darthane |
Amperage makes no difference to the brightness of that bulb, only voltage. Remember, just because a circuit is CAPABLE of carrying 30A doesn't mean it IS. Amperage is determined by a circuit's voltage and resistance. The less resistance, the more current. Those little 12V bulb filaments are rather high resistance, so the actual current running through them is generally 0.5-4A, depending on the intended use. Esp, this may sound a little odd, but if you're worried about it being dust, the first thing I'd do is completely remove the battery, push the bike out of the garage, and give it a really thorough wash down.  If you can isolate the circuit that the main fuse is on, trace it back just like you did with your previous problem, paying close attention to any place that it is close to a piece of metal or in particular near an edge of any sort. You may have another simple (relatively speaking, of course) intermittent short caused by insulation rub through. These bikes shake a lot, and that would explain why it doesn't blow until the bike has turned over and is rattling and rolling all over the place. | ||
| Espcustoms |
Thanks Darthane. So, the bulb should still be pretty dim when there's no short like it was in the 10 amp fuse slot? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I'm trying to make sure I know what I'm looking for. It's starting to seem unlikely that aluminum dust could be causing the problem. The only way I can see that happening is if enough dust collected in the wrong place that it would cause a short. There really wasn't much dust on the bike and the cover was on the fuse box which seems like it would be the most vulnerable. Maybe it's just coincidence that it began happening when it did. And like you said, a chaffed wire seems more likely given that the fuse seems to blow when the bike is started up. | ||
| Mb182 |
I'd go back and unhook everything in the area you were working..1st place to look. Then put in new fuse.. if OK then reattach one connection at a time.. You can get a good multimeter at Sears for $15-20. Will give you a lot more info than a test light when checking for grounded circuits. MB | ||
| Espcustoms |
I did unhook everything I had done and had the same result. I have a multimeter, but don't really know how best to use it for this purpose. I've only really used it to check continuity. Any advice on using it for this purpose? | ||
| Darthane |
~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks Darthane. So, the bulb should still be pretty dim when there's no short like it was in the 10 amp fuse slot? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I'm trying to make sure I know what I'm looking for. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Provided there is nothing wrong with the circuit and the voltage is constant, that bulb will glow with the same intensity regardless of whether you put a 2A or a 30A fuse in the slot. Using the voltmeter to check continuity is one of the most basic and helpful ways to make use of one in a troubleshooting capacity. Isolate a section of circuitry (typically by removing the fuse and disconnecting whatever component the fuse feed), and then check for continuity to ground (engine block or, preferably, the negative battery post). If the circuit is isolated, no wire except for an actual ground should have continuity. For the purposes of troubleshooting, continuity can be loosely defined as anything less than 1 kilo-Ohm (1000 Ohms). Another way to check for a resistive short is to use the voltage meter function to check the voltage present on a circuit when live. With normal battery voltage (12V+), anything under 10V can start affecting component functions. Your light bulb setup can be used in this capacity as well. Unlike a 'dead' short, which will typically blow a fuse, a resistive short generally bleeds enough voltage off that a component will not function properly - in the case of a lightbulb, it grows dimmer and dimmer the more of the voltage is bled off. ...now that I've rambled on enough, I'm going to go get my service manual and see if I can point out some likely culprit areas for you. My knowledge of XB*S wire routing is limited though (I have an R). Be back in a bit! | ||
| Darthane |
OK, this is all assuming that your XB*S is wired no differently than my XB*R (other than physical component location). This seems to me to be a reasonable assumption, but that doesn't mean I'm right. If anyone knows for sure one way or the other, piping up would be appreciated. You haven't mentioned any other fuses blowing, which helps narrow down the search. The short has to be occuring before any secondary fusing. The 30A main fuse directly protects the: Voltage Regulator (RED) ECM Fuse Feed (RED) Key Switch Fuse Feed (RED) Cooling Fan Fuse Feed (RED) Key Switch Relay Feed (RED) Ignition Fuse Feed (through Key Switch Relay - RED W/ BLACK) Starter Relay (through Key Switch Relay - RED W/ BLACK) Starter Solenoid (through Starter Relay - GREEN) You mentioned that the fuse had blown once when the bike was not yet running, and again once it had started. Just to clarify, were you holding in the start switch during the fuse blows? If not, you can ignore the Starter Solenoid feed. If memory serves me, the fuse block and relay block on a XB*S are right next to each other in the tail section, and also situated close to the battery and main fuse, yes? Since all this stuff is close together and (one would hope) relatively immobile, it seems unlikely to have developed a rub-through in that area. The only component that the RED wire feeds that has to travel a significant distance to reach is the voltage regulator, so that'd be my guess as the likely portion of the circuit to have experienced the short. The interconnect for this circuit can be found tucked underneath the black plastic pully cover on the right side of the bike rearward of the cam cover. It's a large, black, two-cavity connector with a large red and large black wire in it. From that connection, it travels forward under the timing cover and loops up the front of the case to the voltage regulator. It's covered with a loom here, and it should be fairly easy to spot any rub-throughs along this length. I'm afraid I don't know what path it follows from the connector back towards the main fuse. Check as much of it as possible visually, moving the wire back away from any point that it contacts metal. ...what this will likely end up forcing you to do is trace the main harness route between that area under the pulley cover and the fuse/relay blocks. Sorry that doesn't really narrow the search, much. >.< As with the previous problem, don't give up! Electrical problems can be the most frustrating of all to diagnose, but they're generally easy to fix and cost virtually nothing to do so. Which would you rather have to do, replace some fuses and get some wire covering in place to protect from a rub-through, or have to pull the cover off and suck out pieces of a destroyed oil pump drive? Give me an electrical problem over a mechanical one virtually any day. =D | ||
| Espcustoms |
I really appreciate your help Darthane! | ||
| Darthane |
No problem, just keep us up to date with what you find! | ||
| Espcustoms |
That definitely gives me some more direction on where to look. Again, thanks for taking the time to help!! I'm with you on the electrical vs. mechanical issues. At least this will be cheap to fix once I finally find the problem! | ||
| Espcustoms |
Well, it turned out to be one of the wires just past the interconnect leading to the voltage regulator - the very first place Darthane told me to check. Man, you must be psychic! Thanks a lot to you and to everyone for the advice and encouragement. Beers are on me!  | ||
| Darthane |
Sweet, I love it when it's something simple. Glad you're back on the road again! |
