| Author | Message | ||
     Surlypacer |
In the shop manual it looks like you push down, reference point bottom of primary chain. Push up hard, measure to top of chain. This is total free play. Or is it push down, reference point, push up hard measure to bottom of chain again. A lot of post on this forum never tell their measuring points. they just measure what? Considering the chain is 3/8 thick, it makes a big difference. Help? | ||
| Hans |
Ehhh?? You have to measure the same reference points with each measurement of the total travel between pushing up and down. I find it easiest to measure between the lowest point of upper chain and highest point of the lower chain when pressing them together.(=pushing the upper chain down.) The same two reference points when pushing the chains apart. (= pushing the upper chain up.) Thickness of the chain is not relevant. I hope I made myself clear. Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
HANS Bottom of chain to bottom of chain and bottom of chain to top of chain is a 3/8 difference. Bottom to top is a tighter measurement. Chain has less movement. Which one? | ||
| Hans |
I really don`t understand: It is only the total MOVEMENT you wish to measure. Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
depending on how you measure one is tighter than another. both measure 3/4 inches vertical free play. which one is correct? | ||
| Jayvee |
Dont' measure the chain to chain, you pick one reference point, not on the chain, and compare how far the chain moves in relation to it. Like a bolt, the side of the hole, any visible feature, but not something that moves. It's just like adjusting the rear drive chain. | ||
| Surlypacer |
hans you said this. I find it easiest to measure between the lowest point of upper chain and highest point of the lower chain when pressing them together. the "O" is the chain. Line (-) is measurement point. O_ _] 3/4 inch loose O _ O ] 3/4 bottom to top is tighter O_ see why i am confused, both measure 3/4. your chain is looser than mine. | ||
| Diablobrian |
measure from the same point on the chain relative to a stationary point. | ||
| Hans |
Yes, I see now what you mean. But you have to make two measurements: First when a link of the upper chain and lower chain are pressed together Second: When those two links (about in the middle of the chain) become pushed apart. The difference is the travel and that is what you want to know. Thickness of the chain plays no role. It doesn`t matter what reference points on the upper and lower chain you choose, as long as you take the same reference points with the two measurements. Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
I think a lot of people here define vertical free play different than the manual. I think it should be bottom of chain to top. it only moves 3/4 of an inch. If you go bottom then push up, to bottom the top part of the chain is hanging outside the 3/4 measurement. Look at the manual. the chain should be inside the measurement. | ||
| Surlypacer |
OOPs Look at the buell manual. The chain measurement is taken at the highest point and the lowest point. chain is inside the measurement. Not the same point down and then up. which would put the chain outside the vertical free play. | ||
| Hans |
The figure in my manual (2000M2) is clear about it: The upper chain is represented as a broken line between the two sprockets, the lower chain as a straight, unbroken, line. There are in fact two broken lines between the sprockets. The broken lines have a flat angle in the middle and the distance between the hook points is the free play. The broken lines represent lines of the same reference points in both situations of the upper chain: Pushed up and pressed down. Hans | ||
| Hans |
The free play in "field" conditions (sic) should be between 0.375 and 0.5 inches (cold engine) (2000M2 manual) Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
In my manual its has 2 broken lines, chain pushed up= ^ pushed down= V The two measure line are at the top of the ^ and the bottom of the V. I wouldnt say this is the same measure spot on the chain. The lowest point, bottom of the chain v, and the highest point, the top of the ^. ie. bottom and top. The chain is in between your two measure points. the manual doesnt say to use the same reference point on the chain. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"The chain measurement is taken at the highest point and the lowest point." That is right and it is done using the same point on the chain each time. If you look at one of the rivets on a sideplate (as a smaller, more easily defined point) that point would move up 3/8" and down 3/8" for a total movement of 3/4". If there was much sag in a chain it would move up further than it would move down. But there is very little sag on these chains so when you push it up, you are seeing half of the total freeplay. The mention above of the chainplates being 3/8" in height points out a handy reference you can use for measuring the travel. If you take a small screwdriver and hold it vertically near the inspection opening, just so that you see the tip even with the top of the chain, when you push up on the chain the bottom of a chainplate on a properly adjusted chain will move up 3/8" and become even with the tip. When I had some issues with getting the adjustment right (it was too loose when I thought I had it right) it found it was because I was not pushing up hard enough. You want to push up firmly with the tip of one finger. Until it hurts a little. Jack | ||
| Surlypacer |
Wow that just changed everything. since there is barely no sag. I shouldnt at the rest of the free play to the top? I have about 1/8 sag down and almost 3/4 up. I give up!! | ||
| Hans |
Yes: The lines ARE the same measure spots on the chain. A chain represented as a line you have to think of as the middle of the chain. You can measure of course other spots on the chain links, as long as you take the same spots. Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
ok, middle to middle. we all agree. Now max free play is 1/2 or 3/4? | ||
| Hans |
You have an XB9, not an old tuber like me. What is written in your manual ?  Hans | ||
| Surlypacer |
xb9 says 3/8-1/2. Some people here post that 3/4 is a better adjustment to use. If you measure middle to middle My chain disappears out of the primary adjustment window. | ||
| Hans |
That is about the same as an M2. I should say: Cold engine and tightest spot: 1/2 an inch. You are still on the safe side then. Our tubers are going to shift badly when the chain is a little bit too loose. I don`t know the arguments to ride the XB with more slack in the primary chain than the manual indicates. Hans | ||
| Jackbequick |
It has not been mentioned in this thread but the primary chain gets tighter when it is warmed up. Not looser. And many regulars here found the specified 3/8" to 1/2" to be a little on the tight side when it is warmed up. A typical symptom of a too tight chain is a sort of whirring noise that can be heard with the engine running. That is what gave rise to the 3/4" measurement and it seems to work good. When the chain is too loose, with like a total of 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" of travel, the chain can start slapping the inside of the primary cover. Kind of a clunking noise heard mostly as you slow and just before you come to a stop. I know because that is what happened to me when I let mine get too loose (I was not pushing up on the chain hard enough when taking the measurement). As soon as I adjusted it to where if I pushed up hard and got 3/8" upward travel, the slapping stopped and the shifting was fine. Jeff, I think you'll find that when you get the chain to the point where it will only move up 3/8" when pushed up hard, it will not sag and it can also be pushed down a similar amount. Jack | ||
| Surlypacer |
i have never been able to get my chain to go down the same amount as up. In fact it only moves about 1/8. So how does this factor into the adjustment. So do i give the move up adjustment a little more? | ||
| Jackbequick |
If, when you are pushing firmly and with the same amount of force in both directions, and you are getting 1/8" down and 5/8" up, you have the suggested 3/4" of play. But that is a strange situation. On my M2 the chain was under light tension (not sagging). When I pushed it up or down I got about the same amount both ways, maybe just a little more up movement. The movement happens because the outer clutch "basket" (the part driven by the chain) is not ridgidly mounted. It sort of floats around and can be moved from side to side a little. It is the movement in the basket that accounts for the 3/4" of travel in the chain. There is no give where the primary chain adjuster's nylon shoe pushes the chain up into adjustment. Jack | ||
| Hans |
It is really not that difficult. Forget the direction. Take the upper chain and move it up as far as possible. Mark that point. Push it firmly down and measure the distance to the marker: That is the free play. It does not matter what you choose as reference point on the upper chain. My marker is the end of a wire, bend on such way, that I can fix it firmly with my left hand against the carter. The end of that wire has a L form and the short leg is the wanted free play. It doesn`t matter if you can push the chain more up than to press it down: Maybe you have still some sack. Maybe you are lifting the chain from the nearest tooth somewhat and the link changes its contact path with the tooth, giving it more room. Too tight is bad: You recognize it as a whirling sound, as Jackbequick already mentioned. It is the resonance of the chain, which works then like a string. It puts very heavy loads on the chain and races. Hans | ||
| Zcyclone |
Primary adjustment for 2001 M2? Based on earlier threads related to this, i.e. trans vent tube puking, I ve changed the fluid and only put between 25-27 oz (you'all recommend 28 oz). When I had my second puking problem, I had a shop in Savannah, GA change it (think they over filled it.. cuz it puked home). He also adjusted the the primary but I did nt see what he did. Is there nothing more than checking the slack and tightening the adjuster forward of the drain plug. Thx for the help. Z |
