| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
Uhh... How many privateers finished behind Jeremy? I know you'll point out that the question is somewhat pointless (and it may be) but my REAL point is that there's more to racing then meets the eye. A race platform is not a static device. It's tuneable. I'm not going to offer any excuses but from what I hear the tune in the bike wasn't perfect. Maybe a better indication would be to see how they place against that rockwall Honda team this go round. Makes no difference really though. It's really pretty disapointing to see that people are so closed minded and combative that they can't see the fact that the XBRR is an infant racing against wizened veterans. More development time is needed. They'll get it. Keep watching. Be patient. | ||
| Court |
Yeah...right. | ||
| Anonymous |
Sorry PdP, I will argue the point, since I know the facts. Rockwall is fully factory supported with the same level equipment as Erion, just not as much experience. | ||
| Sloppy |
Sorry to the change topic a bit, but since there's people in the know on this thread I just needed to ask: When are the XBRR's going to get a decent looking fairing? Buells have a beautiful simplicity to them, but, IMO, that XBRR fairing looks fugly. | ||
| Brucelee |
PDP such a troll, and such a jackass! Why hang out where you are not wanted? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Sloppy, that fairing may look ugly to you, but aerodynamically it's beautiful. On the faster tracks with longer straights it can be worth a couple of mph. Like Daytona. | ||
| Sloppy |
While that fairing is aerodynamically efficient, it is not beautiful. If Buell wants to sell bikes based on their racing then, IMO, they need to find a way to make them look good and go fast. The motorcycle business is based largely on image. There are many examples of designs that are both efficient and aesthetically pleasing... the Hayabusa probably pushes the envelope in that category. Who knows, maybe it's just me who thinks the XBRR needs work in this area for it to be able to draw more people into dealerships... | ||
| Odinbueller |
So, "Raining on the Parade", why are you actually here? It seems that, yes you are quoting press releases (with your own spin included with each phrase taken and placed into your own context) but are you on some kind of mission to sway us "zealots"? Or is there some sort of superiority complex you need to work out in the form of posting on the BadWeb? It just seems like you're trying to aggravate people is all. I'm all for a different point of view, but your profile says it all. It seems you just want to make us aware of what we already know; that the XBRR still needs work. But one thing that keeps us routing for Buell is the people behind (and sometimes next to) the motorcycle. We actually got a call from Erik himself regarding things we need to pay attention to when we prep our XBRR upon arrival on Monday. I still believe that so far it offers a pretty promising future for FX Racing. And I am by no means a zealot, but a fan of the machine and the company & people behind it. If you are not of the same ilk, you should reconsider your efforts here and focus on something a bit more productive with your time. I hope I'm wrong about you, but the majority of your posts thus far are the equivalent trying to pick a fight. I hope we can sway you to see Buell in a better light. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
you tell him moose | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I think buells rock even if mine is now has a completely broken primary cover and no parts for three states. I would still rather push my Buell than ride a honda! Does that make me a Zealot? Oh yea and i have to credit Moose and the Mutant for helping me get the thing fixed,that is when i get the parts. Buell guys are just different that way. Red | ||
| Jimidan |
Pissin' on the Parade sez: "It's competing against privateers on Hondas such as Ty Howard & Ryan Andrews riding for Rockwall Honda (both of whom beat McWilliams at Laguna)." Yeah, I knew about these young guns, both of whom will be the next stars in AMA Superbike, but like Anony sez, they ain't exactly privateers. One only has to look at MotoGP to see that age has very little to do with competence on a motorcycle. How well would that Buell XBRR have done if it had been ridden by Ty Howard & Ryan Andrews? These guys have Red Bull in their blood and can fly, and they haven't had enough big get-offs to know any better. As far as POTP posting on here, I don't mind his provocative style as it keeps things interesting. I am not the kind of guy who walks into Baskin Robbins and orders vanilla all the time. I would contend that POTP is actually here for the same reasons as anybody else...amusement...mental masturbation. He pushes the obvious buttons and you guys jump...enough said. Actually, shouldn't he or anyone else who plays by the rules of this site have the right to question our assertions, prognostications and wild-assed enthusiasm? What he says isn't always that far out in left field, which is why it strikes a nerve in the party faithful. Is your faith so superficial that it cannot stand any test? Burn the witches... jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
Sloppy sez: "Sorry to the change topic a bit, but since there's people in the know on this thread I just needed to ask: When are the XBRR's going to get a decent looking fairing? Buells have a beautiful simplicity to them, but, IMO, that XBRR fairing looks fugly." You must not have read the excellent article in Fuell about the fairing design. Do you think Buell just came up with a fairing that looked like a mushroom because it was cute? Not so! This fairing was designed by the wind tunnel because it works, not some fancy-smancy gay designer (not that there is anything wrong with that). Don't get stuck in the form-above-function mindset that plagues our HD brethren...and besides, I like the way the XBRR's fairing looks. It is very sporty and is easy to pick out in a crowd. Different in every sense... jimidan | ||
| Cyclonemick |
At first I also didn't like the look of the front fairing but it is growing on me, and if it makes our beloved Buells faster, I say Right On! | ||
| Sloppy |
I understand that the XBRR is trying to mimic the shape of a rain drop so it goes fast, but unless it goes fast in the storeroom, Buell's bean counters won't continue to invest in racing -- unless of course they get spectacular results against teams with decades of experience. The B1 bomber is both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing, as is the F16, F22, etc. There's no reason aerodynamics have to look ugly -- good design incorporates form and function together. Isn't that why we chase voluptuous and shapely chicks?  But hey, it's just opinion... it doesn't sound like the fairing will be changing soon. I hope Buell can get on the podium by next year. For a first year try they're looking good - I hope the investment continuous so we don't have the VR1000 poor house again. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
this bike is much better then the VR1000 could ever wish to be | ||
| Jimidan |
Sloppy seconds: "The B1 bomber is both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing, as is the F16, F22, etc. There's no reason aerodynamics have to look ugly -- good design incorporates form and function together. Isn't that why we chase voluptuous and shapely chicks?" The B1 bomber, the F16 and the F22 are airplanes that were all designed in a wind tunnel too. What is the point you are trying to make? Do you think that the front fairing should have big ol' juicy boobs molded into it? Got Milk? I know your game...can anybody play. Cerially, the fairing will probably never be on a production Buell, so it isn't going to hurt sales any. The VR1000 was a very good design when it first hit the drafting table...but it took 3 years of waiting...waiting, before it was built. The competition does not stand still. If there is a lesson here for the XBRR, it is do not wait and keep the funding coming. jimidan | ||
| Anonymous |
Oh it didn't take 3 years of waiting on the VR1000, it took much more. The project was kicked off in February of 1987, with promises of racing in 1988. You have no idea of the misery, failures and expense. The investment was enormous! | ||
| Davegess |
<the> Sloppy, those shapes, which are mimicked by many sport bikes, are only good at supersonic speeds. At subsonic speeds big and round is better. It is not just frontal area but frontal area drag that give you your total coefficent of friction. The tail is as important as the front. | ||
| Court |
Ahhhhhh. . . we approach the TRUTH. Keep reading folks...do some research (hint: start at landspeed racing). You're going to find something very interesting about the differnece in supersonic and subsonic aerodynamics. | ||
| Odinbueller |
If you look at the development photos on buell.com, you'll see the wind tunnel testing is with the Sebimoto/Shark Skinz style fairing & tail section. The initial penetration is OK, but you can see the dirty air behind the tail section on exit. Hence the tail section on the XBRR, trying to mimic a "bubble" so the air is as undisturbed as possible while going really fast. Pretty cool stuff to watch, though. | ||
| Jima4media |
Do you know who had one of the first wind tunnels in existence? That fun loving duo of Orville and Wilbur Wright. 1901. They also developed the first light weight aluminum in-line 4 motor for their new fangled flying contraption in 1903. Same year Harley-Davidson started out. | ||
| Sloppy |
Hmm... this'll be the last time I try to interject with a bit of casual conversation and humor with this gathering. Apparantly I'm in the minority who believes that the XBRR needs a face lift. Based on the responses here you'd guess that the competition is clueless on drag, boundary layer flow, flow seperation, flowstreams and diffusers, eh??? Best of luck to Buell, both on the track and on the sales floor. I'd have never bought mine if it looked like an XBRR... | ||
| Diablobrian |
Well it's just a case of function over form. Erik was surprised at how inefficient the Stock styled fairings were when checked in the wind tunnel. Based on what the articles about the development said I'd guess they checked how the competition was doing in the wind tunnel too. Since there were comments comparing the coefficient of drag. The use of a smiley to indicate a humorous slant is a good idea since inflection is hard to judge on the internet.  It makes it easier for us to tell what you are saying should be taken with a grain of salt. | ||
| Court |
I don't find that "we're smart; they're dumb" occurring anywhere in the conversation. The Buell design is aerodynamically elegant. Buell will seek, I'm guessing, to optimize each and every system on the bike. I've yet, except for once, to see Erik Buell eschew efficiency for the sake of "consumer eye appeal". Buell has some challenges ahead of it's infant racing effort. Having the aero of the bodywork dealt with is one checked off the list. Racing requires not that one system excel, but that all work perfectly in concert. Smart Elves are at work. I'm sure they HOPE you like the looks of it, but that's not a design metric. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
I one respect Sloppy may have a valid point. If them Elves truly wanted to optimize performance, the entire bike would be YELLOW. We all know that is the fastest color!! | ||
| Jimidan |
Sloppy seconds, I think I saw your humor joke and raised it a: "The B1 bomber, the F16 and the F22 are airplanes that were all designed in a wind tunnel too. What is the point you are trying to make? Do you think that the front fairing should have big ol' juicy boobs molded into it? Got Milk? I know your game...can anybody play?" You never did respond, so does that mean you don't want to see a big pair of boobs molded into the XBRR fairing?  We have a sense of humor...now, where did I put my Texas Booger Sugar? jimidan | ||
| Ebear |
I'm certain when someone if that ilk gets their XBRR , repainting a "bikini top" paint job WILL happen , however , I for one , LOVE the profile of that fairing....It is unique from the front and makes it easier to pick out to photograph when approaching.The side view shows a LOT of work was done to perfect the ducting and now you will notice a cover to keep the heat from affecting the throttle hand(seen in Laguna).There are 2 tails at least being used and I like them both......Oh Yeah....YELLOW IS the BEST COLOR!!!!!!(dark yellow of course!) | ||
| Blake |
The trade offs between aerodynamic efficiency and roll axis inertia of the fairing design would be an interesting study. It's difficult to believe that ALL the other factories including those running MotoGP are missing the boat on fairing design. But they could well be. | ||
| Davegess |
Just remember Erik is pretty bad at aerodynamics. Look at how slow the RR bikes have been at Bonneville | ||
| Davegess |
<it's> Blake, remember that all these other efforts are driven by marketing. It seems that marketing feels that the sport bike buying public links supersonic shapes, wedges, planes, angles, with SPEED so the bike use those and since racing supports marketing the race bikes need to look like the street bikes. The Buell effort is driven by engineering and is only marginally connected to traditional marketing. Not that marketing is not important to them, look at the profile of an XBRR at first glance it looks a lot like an XB, it is, but engineering is more important. |
