| Author | Message | ||
     Tbowdre |
so I wanted the micron full exhaust and now I want a right side scoop after the fan thread... Id rather cool my engine a little and sacrifice the HP. so Im diggin the drummer SS now and will ceramic coat my stock exhaust, open air box. The question is..... direct link or can I get away with a race ecm? | ||
| Diablobrian |
You can get away with the race ECM, but Direct Link will make your bike run better and give you more HP an torque. That's even if you go with one of Al and Terry's maps without custom tuning it to your particular bike. I'd take a really good look at $ to hp gained. The Direct Link is hard to beat in that regard. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
DIRECT LINK for sure!!! | ||
| Drift |
I have the race ecm and the Drummer SS with an open airbox. Runs awesome! My fan doesn't run much either unless it is an ultra hot day and I have been beating the crap out of my bike. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I've run the regular Drummer, the Drummer SS and now the Drummer CF with just the race ECM with no problems at all. I have yet to personally try one of Al's maps so I'm really not qualified to have an opinion. | ||
| Ftd |
I have a XB12 with a Drummer and KN filter. This graph shows how much the DL can improve on the race ECM (see dnyo chart/red race ECM purple DL ECM). I had driveability issues due to AFV creep so I am not running the DL ECM currently but most certainly will when I get an American Sport Bike map. As an aside I also ordered a right side scoop which s/b here this week. Being in FL I felt like I needed the extra cooling. Frank  (Message edited by ftd on July 24, 2006) | ||
| Tbowdre |
I kinda expected this response...direct lin it is... thanks for the input. | ||
| Bmwdavid |
Question. What is direct link? Is it a reflash of the stock ECM, the race ECM or something else? Thanks! David | ||
| Vaxb |
I,m confused? How come FTD is showing 88hp and the muffler shootout showed closer to 98-100hp? What are the differences? I wouldn,t think there would be that kind of difference between dyno's. | ||
| Ftd |
The dyno my bike was run on is known to be on the conservative side. Maybe the shootout's was liberal?? The key is to look at the changes while keeping the dyno constant. The DL really seems to be worth the time/$ if you want that last 5hp/tq. Frank | ||
| Ftd |
or maybe my bike is a dog? I am running a stock ECM now. A noticeable drop in power when compared with the DL set up. Drivability though is another issue. Make sure you purchase your DL MAP from Al at American Sport Bike. If not get some ref.'s from a tuner before you get a custom MAP for your bike. Frank | ||
| Xb12rdude |
I have the Race ECM, pipe and filter. If I purchase the DL can I install myself or does the throttle position sensor need to be reset like when I put the Race ECM in. Also, does the DL take the place of the Race ECM or run beside it. Thanks | ||
| Xb9 |
DL is software that allows you to remap the fuel tables in the Buell ECM, calibrate the TPS & zero the AFV. It also allows you to modify the spark tables and accel / decel tables. It consists of software and a hardware key that once used, is married to that particular ecm. | ||
| Diablobrian |
You cannot compare maps from 2 different dynos directly, except for comparing the shape of the curves. Even the same bike on the same dyno on 2 different days will show different numbers. The trick is to look for the dips, or lack of them to see the comparative "holes" | ||
| Nputnam |
What is a Direct Link? Do you still need the race ECM? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Direct link is a software package that allows you to re-program your ECM to match your bikes requirements. You can tweak at every parameter of engine performance, from fuel to spark...on each cylinder. The race ECM is kind of a one size fits all (really JUST the race kit) solution. Better than the stock ECM, but not perfect. | ||
| Hogs |
Diablobrain, Do you mean you can alter fuel rates different for each cyl., and spark as well , Not sure how you wd. do this with just one 02 sensor what am I missing?? | ||
| Ftd |
That is why you need a professionally developed MAP. Al/Terry have exhaust systems with two O2 bungs/sensors just for this purpose. Frank | ||
| Hogs |
Well, This is what I thought, DL will just map on an average of both cyls. Unless you have 2 02 sensors one on each header pipe.? Then how else wd. one be able to fine tune each cyl.,What if one injector was leaking abit etc.etc or air leak, and so on... | ||
| Diablobrian |
No, the spark timing can be tuned for front and rear separately, but the fuel map is the same. Unless I misunderstand it myself. | ||
| Hogs |
Hmmm, Just wonder the advantage of changing the timing for each cyl,unless you had fuel to play with also? | ||
| Xb9 |
Fuel maps are separate also | ||
| Diablobrian |
Ah, that's right I remember them routing the copper tube up through the pipe to each cylinder's exhaust pipe. | ||
| Skully |
No, the spark timing can be tuned for front and rear separately, but the fuel map is the same. Unless I misunderstand it myself. Timing and fuel maps are completely independent for the front and rear cylinders using Direct-Link. Keith | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Skully has it correct. they are both independent,and can be tuned front and rear. | ||
| Hogs |
So tell me how can you do that UNLESS you have 2 02 sensors to read from One up each ASS of the header pipes??? | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
you are correct you SHOULD have 2 o2 sensors. direct link is capable to do it with one o2 sensor but it is bassicly a shoot in the dark method. will work and be close but not perfect...i believe it does an average type reading and tunes both cylinders together. what i am doing for my next dyno run in a few weeks is i have welded a couple 10mm. nuts about 2-3 inches from the the top of the exhaust pipe. this allows the tuner to connect his hi-po -o2 sensors to each pipe with a little gizmo thingy. (i can take a pic if ya want to see it) this is the same bung style set up that is used on the ducati motorcycles and it is very small compared to others that are the size of a car one.(ugly and huge) this will allow the tuner to tune each cylinder independently and when finished will have a sweet running bike. | ||
| Hogs |
YEah sure a picture is worth a 1000 words... | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
i agree...i will snap a few when i get home tonight. i was a little confused myself when i was talking with rob from "robs dyno service." (came highly recommended from AL at American Sport Bike) and he has been working with direct link since the begining.(4 years i believe). very smart guy and is also on the techno-research site for tuners. i went and seen him this weekend for the gizmo thing to be sure i got the correct size fitting for the pipes. i still have it as he said just return it when i drop the bike off. i will get them pics and post them up.. | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Fire....., Thanks all the info ya got on this etc.etc... | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Hogs...my camera battery was dead last night when i went to take them pics for ya.  ..i will get them today, just got in from cvs for a battery. so i'm all set now. really need to get one of them rechargeable batteries. will post when i get home. | ||
| Hogs |
No Worries pal, Thanks... | ||
| Aeroe |
So if I'm correct I can: Buy the DL and mate it with my leftover stock ECM and tune that ECM to perform better than my race ECM. And all I have to do is place a second O2 sensor on the front header? I've never been to a dyno, walk me through this please... -get the DL, with the second O2 -take bike to dyno. -dyno guy hooks up machine and says, "you're running lean around 3k RPMs" for example -so he does what? | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
here is the gizmo that rob gave me. you will see the 10mm bolt right under it. that is the bolt that needs to be welded 2-3 inches down from the engine side on the exhaust.  here is a close up of each end of this adapter. one side goes onto the 10mm bolt which will be on the exhaust and the other side goes to a small pump and filter set up with the o2 sensor in it. this allows both cylinders to be read with real time readings.   this is what it should look like once done. one picture on the front one on the rear cylinder.   | ||
| Tleighbell |
So if I buy a DL with a map for my present set up (Race kit) can I later buy and install another map if I change my set up by say adding an open air box or FAST intake, assuming Al has developed a map for that set up? What cost for the map alone? | ||
| Pisymbol |
The issue with DL and any Powercommander like substance is maps. Without the knowhow or equipment to create proper maps, your sort of stuck with fixed configurations. With that said, there are folks (I don't know much about the aftermarket Buell scene) that if you give them the list of your components they can come up with a map (have no idea how they do this either). | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
yes with direct link you can switch set ups at any time. you can buy a map or get a good dyno guy that knows direct link to make one spacific for you. if you find out you don't like one configuration, you just switch the set up and push a new map in for that new configuration. nobody has a map w/ my set up yet which is why i am getting the dyno time done. i have a map for open airbox/jardine muffler that i got when i purchased the kit. it was a good starting point for me. best map i could get at the time. my set up with out direct link had my bike dangerously lean, with the new map it was a little fat. better to be rich than lean. after a few hours of dyno time i should be good to go for this set up. i may get the micron after and will just get the dyno time for any new configurations i may do. |
