| Author | Message | ||
     Aeholton |
Well said Bosh. Thunderbox said: Buell knows nothing about their bikes and you apparently do. At the same time, just because Buell designed something it isn't necessarily the "be all, end all, best". Otherwise there currently wouldn't be a recall on kick stands and tall windshields. If you don't think a right side air scoop is needed, don't put one on. I like the way it looks and the result. I don't believe my bike is running too cool. I will be hooking my laptop w/ VDSTS this weekend and see what kind of temperatures it is running at. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I'm not sure why I will respond to clarify as I think some just likes to argue. I said the fan gets odd stares as an example of how its perceived as it sounding abnormal. Not a motorcycle sound, not even a fan sound. I have little concern for what others think but it would add greatly to my ownership experience if I could here the V-Twin sound I love so much, and not the screechy fan. Its naïve to think talking about a flaw is disloyal to Buell, that's how problems get fixed. I wish I also had the 2007 airbox and front springs. Improvements that were addresses as people discussed them as adults. When the fan is corrected what then will you say. Buy the way I'm on my 4th Buell and they just keep getting better. Glad they are willing to address and correct weakness more than you (Message edited by brad1445 on July 20, 2006) | ||
| Lowflyer |
Right side scoop is not a necessity. It is an accessory that may or may not provide any real benefit. My belief is that if it provided any real value, Buell would have put one on. After all, they designed my bike to come with a seat. | ||
| Pupu |
i agree, should be looked at purely as cosmetic-this debate has gone on for ever and there is no end it site. | ||
| Lorazepam |
My fan finally died over the weekend. It was a 500 mile round trip in 90-100 degree heat. Thankfully I had wrapped the headers prior to departing, and I experienced no overheating, at least to the point of the engine light coming on. The fan will still cycle on and off with the headers wrapped. I have a new fan in place, and the header wrap makes a difference in how much heat I feel, buy it doesnt seem to make the fan cycle any differently. | ||
| 44mag |
Aeholton, Please post the engine temps with and without the scoop. I would love to see them! | ||
| 250bultaco |
I copied these from the Buell live chat transcripts, with Erik and his staff. You can find it on the Buell site. Seems that a properly tuned and running bike should have no problems with engine cooling and shouldn't need extra ducting. I found the reference to the fuel rail in the last answer pretty enlightening. Also, check out the "Ulysses Oil Temperature" thread. They apparently run cooler than you'd expect, even in extreme temps. I'm taking the position that Erik didn't get this far without knowing what he's doing and surrounding himself with people of a similar ilk, so I'm leaving mine alone. VMXMAN: I picked up my new Ulysses on Monday. I noticed the aux fan operates most of the time while riding. Is the fan designed to run that much? Erik: Yes, the fan is used to keep the engine at an optimum temperature to help with emissions, and also to add extra oil cooling when the bike is moving slowly or shut off. As the bike breaks in it will run a little less, though. chrisb: My Ulysses is the first buell I have owned and I love it! question: Should the fan be running at freeway speeds in 65-70 degree weather? Dan: Glad to hear you are enjoying it. Yes, it is common for the fan to run even on a cool day. steve: Are there going to be any cooling issues if the Ulysses is ridden at low speeds for lengths of time, trail riding for example. Thank you! Dan: None whatsoever. We have done extensive testing on the Ulysses in hot weather. Part of our testing includes extended low speed riding and extended idle in 100+ degree ambients. I saw more 100 degree July days in the desert that I ever hope to again to be sure you'll have no overheating problems. bucho65: What is the purpose of the plastic cover on the right side of the engine? I heard it is to aid cooling but I can't see how since it blocks air to the rear cylinder. Dan: What you've heard is correct. The scoop on the left side put a large volume of air over the rear cylinder. Enough for our spark plug base temperatures to fall line-on-line when we measure them. At speed cooling the rear cylinder is easy. When a bike is moving slowly we need to draw the air over the engine using the fan. The right side panel along with the other body panels direct the way the air flows around the engine, resulting in great airflow across the fuel rail so the bike can idle indefinitely even in 100 degree weather without causing vapor lock. | ||
| Lowflyer |
That pretty much settles it I think. Money spent on a right side scoop would be better used for purchasing a right side sidestand. | ||
| Chadhargis |
When I was at the factory during Homecoming, I posed the question of a right side scoop during a tech session. I was told that it was not needed. This came from on of the lead engineers at Buell. I'm putting my chips on him, and not installing a right side scoop. Frankly, I've never minded the fan running. Still don't understand all the hubub about it. It's just a fan, it's not like your bike is malfunctioning. It's running as it is designed to do. In fact, my fan stopped running as frequently as when the bike was new and I took it to the shop to find out if it was bad or not. They tested it and said it was fine, but based on my reports of it not running at certin times (such as when I was stuck in traffic), they would replace it under warranty. Cool! (pardon the pun). | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The right side scoop looks cool but I believe it is like buying carbon fiber parts, cool but "what for?". And to be asking 260 bucks for one is way out of my price range. That would pay for the TPS software and quite a few 5 quart containers of Mobil 1 15W50. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Yeah, I'd sooner make one myself than spend 3 bills on it. I wonder if my bike is still standing out in the parking lot. | ||
| Brad1445 |
ok, so no scoop, so were can we buy a replacement fan that is more quite and then we don't care if its running. Inventors? I would pay $300 for a quite fan. (Message edited by brad1445 on July 21, 2006) | ||
| Lowflyer |
Save your $$ and your hearing. Wear ear plugs.  I really am puzzled by all this fuss over the fan. I reckon I just don't understand why someone would buy this bike if they had such a serious problem with its basic design. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Maybe that's why I am not bothered by the fan at all. I wear ear plugs 90% of the time. My fan is being replaced this coming week as it has developed some bearing noise. I'm also getting a new muffler because of rust. Have I ever owned a bike I like better? Not that I can recall. I developed a great deal of trust and respect for the Uly when Linda and I did the 7800 km trip this June. I'm off to the Alberta, British Columbia next week. | ||
| Roadrailer |
Save your $$ and your hearing. Wear ear plugs. I really am puzzled by all this fuss over the fan. I reckon I just don't understand why someone would buy this bike if they had such a serious problem with its basic design. +1 It's amazing how much ear plugs help to reduce fatigue on a long day of riding. I don't go anywhere without them. As a bonus, they help to drown out the comments about the fan at stop lights.  I don't get the big deal about the fan. It's a fan, it cools the bike. If folks ask, I tell them just that. Simple, and certainly nothing to be embarrassed about. I actually had a guy ask me the other day if my bike was electric.  | ||
| Xbimmer |
Again I say I don't care about the fan's howl or what anybody else thinks about it. I do care that mine is starting to make rattly noise at 5k and only 3 months old. I tend to ride the snot out of a new bike for 2-3 years and keep them a long time after that. If HD wants to warranty 100 fans for me in the next two years then great, what then after I'm on my own? Who cares about noise, I want a 50k mile or better fan! | ||
| Aeholton |
I really am puzzled by all this fuss over the fan. I reckon I just don't understand why someone would buy this bike if they had such a serious problem with its basic design. I actually like the idea of the fan coming on when I shut down to keep the oil from boiling off in the top of the head. However, it runs constantly on long trips at highway speeds and I had one quit on me 400+ miles from home. I like the added sense of security that the redundancy of the right side scoop gives me. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I guess I'm suspicious that the failure rate and louder than normal noise may be related. Its not a moving air noise its a mechanical noise, noise = friction friction = wear I have owned more bikes that I can count that have had fans but never remember any being discussed at all as they are usually an invisible friend. NO ONE dislikes the fan or does not see the importance of it under the frame I love my bike, I just look forward to the day that they add the fan to the list of continuous improvements they are always making. I would also be curios if there is a correlation with age as older people do not hear higher pitched noises as do young. This is proven science http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/technology/12ring.html?ex=1153627200&en=14be9b ff15f93049&ei=5070 | ||
| Lorazepam |
I can say with confidence that if your fan does die, your bike will not overheat. Mine died on the beginning of a 500 mile weekend trip. Temps were 95+, and the bike ran fine. Speaking of boiling, what keeps the gas from boiling off when the temps are that high? | ||
| Diablobrian |
This is interesting, The XB r and s models have a very low failure rate for the fan, but the Uly is having a higher failure rate? I wonder what causes that. | ||
| Davo |
You guys are not going to believe this. I have read and posted about right side scoops and whether to remove the right side stock scoop. Well I just went for a ride with both scoops removed and guess what? My garage arrival temperature was 10 degrees lower. About 386 instead of 397 F! I will keep testing and I will keep you posted. I would like someone with a aftermarket right side scoop to post some numbers as well. | ||
| Ka5ysy |
"I shut down to keep the oil from boiling off in the top of the head." Actually the problem is not boiling off the oil. Superheated petroleum oil will "coke" or carbonize. This is the leading cause of automotive turbocharger bearing failure and occurs when the driver shuts off the engine after an extended high power run without giving the turbine wheel a chance to spool down for several minutes. The oil is not circulating due to the engine shutdown, so the oil burns or cokes. Coke is extremely abrasive, thus causing premature bearing, and turbocharger failures, and excessive premature engine wear. The simple fix is to use fully synthetic oil which does not exhibit the coking effect. This is the reason aircraft turbine engines only use synthetic oils. Full synthetic is the only thing I use in all my engines. Good oil and regular changes is much cheaper than engine overhauls or replacement. | ||
| Davo |
After another hot run my scoopless Uly arrived back at the garage at 410 F. It appears that once the core temperature starts to rise the open sides of the engine reduce the fans cooling effect. I still would like to see some aftermarket right side scoop garage arrival temperatures. | ||
| Brucelee |
BTW- I fully agree with the use of "fully synthetic oil" as a way to protect our engines. FYI- This would not include HD Syn3, which as far as we can tell, is a Group 3 "make believe" syn. Personally, I would stick to Mobil Twin, Amsoil or Red Line, all "real" syns. | ||
| Lowflyer |
So, Syn3 is not Group IV, like this website says it is? | ||
| Brucelee |
"I keep hearing this product referred to as SYN3. What does that mean? SYN3 is a synthetic product that has three uses, and is also produced from a proprietary three-synthetic basestock formula. [Top] Is SYN3 a full-synthetic or a semi-synthetic oil? SYN3 is a full synthetic lubricant. It is the general practice in the oil industry that a true synthetic is formulated with Group IV PAO basestocks and is a true synthetic. [Top]" Well, this is interesting and a little slick. Notice that is says that it is "formulated with PAO basestock." It does not say that this is the ONLY basestock, just that it is in there. So, these claims are less staightforward than simply saying, this is a PAO or a PEO basestock, which is what Mobil, AMsoil and Red Line is formulated with. In point of fact, HD has kept much about SYN3 secret and continued the line "trust us, this is formulated just for us" Rumor has it this oil is made by Sunoco, others think it is Chevron. Neither of these guys makes a real syn oil, just Group 3s. The other thing about the Syn3 is that unlike the real syn makers, there is actually NO DATA on the oil itself. There is no API data, no JASO data and no actual product data, such as VI, HTST, viscosity at temp, boiling point and pour point. If fact, HD continues to say about their oil. TRUST US! Do you? I don't. Compare the info they give us about Syn3 to the info on the Red Line site about their 20W-50 oil. I rest my case. | ||
| Ka5ysy |
Reading the Uly information, I notice that the acceptable substitute oil is any diesel rated oil. I have used Mobile Delvac-1 full synthetic for years, and it will go in the Uly too. I currently have 255K on the Tahoe 6.5 TD, and it is still running great with 5K oil changes based on oil analysis. I also have the full synthetic gear lube and transmission fluids running and they do fine also. Full synthetic is the way to go. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I don't trust them either. I use Mobile 1 for v-twins. Not for any other reason than it is carried at a local auto parts store less than a mile from my house. | ||
| Brucelee |
That Delvac might be a tad light on the viscosity. I would run at least the 15W-50 esp in a Uly. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
I was also thinking like Ka5ysy. I was turned on to Shell Rotella T synthetic a few years ago and found it to be a much better oil than most. I've used it in my Superduty Powerstroke as well as my KLR650 and a Magna 500. I know the Harley motors call for 50w, but it really isn't necessary. There is nothing 50w will do for this engine that 40W won't except 40W will give better gas mileage. I also somewhat believe that the better flow of the 40W will help with cooling this engine better. Once I'm done with my break in mileage and can switch to Synthetic, I will be trying the Rotella T in the bike. Joel |
